List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part I

[RWB4life]

Well see here I disagree. Trading out long or butler for Saad or Papley is the opposite. You're trading out youth and potential for proven good players.

I also believe the premise of this rumour is that it's not the only trade that will happen. Say if Ross gets RCD and CCJ and then a Williams or Viney is picked up via FA is that an overall short term and long term improvement? Yes.
All hypothetical obviously

I can agree with that. List management is an overall picture not a single trade. In a scenario like that we could get a FA anyway. Unless a Ross trade leads to the picks we absolutely need to bring in youth AND someone of equal value I struggle to see the point.

In your scenario they're two different transaction, Ross for youth. FA for experience. With something like that we could keep Ross and grab a FA and use existing picks plus less than AFL quality players to grab youth.

There's more to it in terms of what youth we can grab and what the costs are but I'd trust gags and co to be able to get a FA, keep Ross and be able to grab any youth that wants to come to us.

Again its a big picture so we might need Ross picks to grab youth but I think the club should resist the easy option if trading Ross for youth because they can.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Insert Jackie Moon EVERYBODY PANIC Gif.

IMO we've got excellent operators in place that know what they're doing and the direction the club is heading. The last few weeks have been frustrating but pretty understandable when you consider the situation we're in. Our midfield is lacking class and depth... now injuries have come, we are in a world of hurt. Some players look exhausted or totally out of whack, which is probably indicative of being away from home for months & living a hotel room. Sure it sounds nice to those of us in lockdown but it would be exceptionally challenging. Every Victorian club outside of the most experienced groups have had crazy up and downs in form. JB is the perfect example... he's gone from enjoying probably his most consistent season to looking like the MONSTARS have stolen his talent in a SpaceJam type plot. Something isn't right with him that is clear... that's why I hate the pile on from supporters. It's beyond ridiculous.

In regards to trading, well I think we're in a very very good spot with both our list and age demographic. While our midfield is still the greatest area of need, this coming off season has a number of player available who would fit in perfectly with where the list is and where we want it to be. The free agents on offer for a club like ours (with cap space to spend) are perfect... we just need to sell them the dream. Zac Williams would slot in perfectly... teaming him with Jones and Gresh as our inside/outside burst players would immediately give the team better balance and a dynamic edge. Jack Viney is the same... a tough as nail extractor who's is reasonably quick and, most importantly, is a good kick (not elite but very good for an inside clearance player).

There's no guarantee we get them on board but they're currently available.

Then there's the more speculative trades that seem to be in play. Caldwell & Collier-Dawkins are both kids that we coveted at the draft and in RCD's case, tried to trade into a spot to get. They're the one's who add to our young core that will hopefully allow us to contend for top 4 spots for the next decade. Maybe we can use some of our older depth players or JC to get the currency for one or both of them.

I think our 1st round pick will be really important to hold onto. Despite the echo chamber of 'there's no one available because of academies, etc', there is ALWAYS a very highly ranked kid who slides. All it takes is one or two clubs above us to pull a smokey out (which happens in pretty much every draft) and all of a sudden we're in business.

Of course that changes if Josh Kelly decides to see through his handshake deal from 2017...

My point is not to panic... we have good people in charge and a list that is right in the mix despite it's inexperience, a disrupted season and a coach who hasn't had the time to really stamp his game plan and culture on the group.

Great times are ahead.

 

[RWB4life]

With all the hawthorn connections and them looking down for a while are there any players we could go after?

What would Mitchell cost?
Wingard? O'Meara?

Obviously they all cost a lot but they might be gettable.

 

[The_Steadier]

How many finals have we won in those 5 years?
Same sort of arguments could have been made for not trading Bruce.
What about Clark? Or the potential ins from trades and FA?

We brought max king in to replace bruce.

I'd happily ditch ross for a 2nd rounder if the plan is to bring a jet the quality of max king in to replace him.

A kid like caldwell for instance isn't in the same postcode as max in terms of current output or potential output.

We'd have to be bringing in someone a good deal better than caldwell before it was an apples and apples comparison.

 

[The_Steadier]

With all the hawthorn connections and them looking down for a while are there any players we could go after?

What would Mitchell cost?
Wingard? O'Meara?

Obviously they all cost a lot but they might be gettable.

Not wingard, but I've floated the idea with hawks fans on other boards and they agree that they have too much of the same thing in worpel, mitchell and omerea (who is a blue collar inside workhorse since his injuries).

They all seem wedded to all 3 though, (omerea is their next captain, worpol is the future and tmitch their brownlow winner currently at rock bottom value).

I think any one of those 3 would be great for us, but realistically i think mitchell would be the most gettable- but the asking price would rightly be probably 2 firsts if he was infact gettable.

Which, given he's 28 next year, would be too much for what he is.

Sucks for hawks though- i think they are going to have a slow, unbalanced midfield for years without moving 1 of them on.

Viney is the guy who is in the sweet spot for our situation, brayshaw as a consolation prize

 

[jwikked]

Of course that changes if Josh Kelly decides to see through his handshake deal from 2017...

GWS Giants star Josh Kelly says he considered North Melbourne’s mega deal before recommitting to the Giants

‘It was something I did consider’: GWS star was tempted by Roos’ mega offer

www.foxsports.com.au

What deal? He was choosing between GWS and North.

 

[StCicatriz]

Tom Morris in his chat said Caldwell a very real strong chance to be coming to the saints

this one feels like Jones did last year. i reckon we've probably got it done.

also mentioned we might be chasing a key defender given the carlisle stuff

 

[StCicatriz]

Tom Morris also saying hold up at the pies is due to lack of clarity around salary cap next year. TBH i think they're going to need to shed players.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Well if Dunstan and Carlisle aren't picked for Fridays game then I'm guessing both won't be with us next year.

So what are they worth?

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

GWS Giants star Josh Kelly says he considered North Melbourne’s mega deal before recommitting to the Giants

‘It was something I did consider’: GWS star was tempted by Roos’ mega offer

www.foxsports.com.au

What deal? He was choosing between GWS and North.

Didn’t we talk about this last week?

Was asked by a journo about North... responds with the old tough decision cliche.

A source I have no reason to doubt is adamant we were Kelly’s preference IF he left GWS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joffaboy]

The people suggesting he’s no good, are the same ones saying he’d be of value to the likes of Richmond. So which is it? If he’s good enough to play a role for Richmond, he’s sure a sh*t good enough to play a role for us.
If we add two established mids via free agency/trade, then sure, he has less value to us. But until then, trading him for 2 young players who are fringe players is counterproductive to helping our list move forward.

Very simply, he would be in a better mid field.
Really it isn't rocket surgery

 

[Joffaboy]

We brought max king in to replace bruce.

I'd happily ditch ross for a 2nd rounder if the plan is to bring a jet the quality of max king in to replace him.

A kid like caldwell for instance isn't in the same postcode as max in terms of current output or potential output.

We'd have to be bringing in someone a good deal better than caldwell before it was an apples and apples comparison.

Max King cost us a top 5 pick not a second rounder.

 

[plugger66]

We brought max king in to replace bruce.

I'd happily ditch ross for a 2nd rounder if the plan is to bring a jet the quality of max king in to replace him.

A kid like caldwell for instance isn't in the same postcode as max in terms of current output or potential output.

We'd have to be bringing in someone a good deal better than caldwell before it was an apples and apples comparison.

Exactly. Trade rods every day if it gets us a proven star Obviously we have to add a bit but if it’s Ross for Caldwell well then that’s a big decision. Caldwell may be a star but he maybe a dunstan who whilst is a good player he isn’t going to be the top 3 play mids in a good side. Surely the preferred option is get Caldwell but keep Ross or trade Ross and a high pick and get a star. The last thing out of everything we need to do is trade Ross for a draft pick. That certainly hurts the side short term and on average long term.

 

[Yawkey way]

We need mids as our number one priority.

Imagine being able to play billing’s and Gresham mainly as forwards.

 

[plugger66]

We need mids as our number one priority.

Imagine being able to play billing’s and Gresham mainly as forwards.

I’d love gresh to be played like degoey. Mainly forward But sometimes on the ball. I’m still a billings on the wing fan.

 

[Captain Paddy]

Am I the only one who thinks Adam Saad for $500k a year is crazy?

One of the best attacking defenders in the game but also pretty elite one on one. If we were planning to move Hunter into the middle, I’d absolutely be having a look at Saad. Would fit our game plan nicely as well

 

[From 45]

And thats the point. Someone of his ability winning the B&F in our mids.

Obviously can play, but in a top 8 team is not a B&F winner.

Someone complained that people went on about midfield depth but wanted to trade Ross.
It's not depth, we have plenty of foot soldiers, its top end quality where we have Steele and that's it.

This argument that player X wouldn't be good enough to be in best 22 of a top 8 is a bullshit argument and has no substance.

There have been so many average footballers that have been part of a premiership side.

Plus you don't know if player X may actually fit the system and game plan of any top 8 side.

 

[Yawkey way]

Exactly. Trade rods every day if it gets us a proven star Obviously we have to add a bit but if it’s Ross for Caldwell well then that’s a big decision. Caldwell may be a star but he maybe a dunstan who whilst is a good player he isn’t going to be the top 3 play mids in a good side. Surely the preferred option is get Caldwell but keep Ross or trade Ross and a high pick and get a star. The last thing out of everything we need to do is trade Ross for a draft pick. That certainly hurts the side short term and on average long term.

Caldwell would be a great get and whilst he’s still to establish himself at afl level he’s not dunstan.

I like dunstan he gives his all but he’s a limited player whose Deficiencies were obvious when we drafted him, Caldwell is a potential Star. Occasionally you get a chance at a player like this, outside of drafting them it’s rare but imo he’s worth the risk.

Someone like Kelly or another genuine A grader would be a dream but I won’t be holding my breath. I can’t see any reason why we’d trade Ross short of a recruiting spree or a ridiculous offer.

 

[The_Steadier]

Max King cost us a top 5 pick not a second rounder.

I am aware of that, not sure what you mean?

Someone suggested we should trade seb for a 2nd rounder, because we did that with bruce and that worked out fine.

I was just saying that it only worked fine because we replaced bruce with an elite (top 5 pick).

Im saying that unless we do the same (in bringing in a top 5/elite talent), to replace him- it's not worth trading seb for a 2nd rounder.

 

[BrutThough]

Caldwell would be a great get and whilst he’s still to establish himself at afl level he’s not dunstan.

I like dunstan he gives his all but he’s a limited player whose Deficiencies were obvious when we drafted him, Caldwell is a potential Star. Occasionally you get a chance at a player like this, outside of drafting them it’s rare but imo he’s worth the risk.

Someone like Kelly or another genuine A grader would be a dream but I won’t be holding my breath. I can’t see any reason why we’d trade Ross short of a recruiting spree or a ridiculous offer.

Caldwell could be a star. He could also be no more than an average player.

You can say he is a much better player than Dunstan but by that stage of his career, Dunstan had shown much more than Caldwell has. Nothing he has produced at AFL level this far suggests he is some rarity in the AFL system.

 

[ScrappyDo]

He was our second best mid for the last 5 years under Stuv, He's played well enough to win a B&F last year even. He's been sh*t this year but he's probably only behind Steele, Gresham and Jones. Both Gresham and Jones have had very uneven seasons too but their best has been better than Seb's. After them we have Sinclair who is a GOP and then Bytel and Byrnes. Hanners is really not worth mentioning as he's good for 5 games a year and probably not going to get better from here.

If you add in Hunter and any potential FA or recruited player, it pushes Seb out to No 6.

I'd also argue that roughly comparing him with Sincs, Seb gets say %20 more possessions, but on percentage every one of them is a turnover or ineffective disposal.
If you take them as roughly even on effective disposals, you then look at the quality of those disposals, on which I'd have Sincs in front.
Seb's got size and experience as a mid which elevates him in the practical rankings slightly, but on a cost/benefit ratio he's struggling to rank..

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

I am aware of that, not sure what you mean?

Someone suggested we should trade seb for a 2nd rounder, because we did that with bruce and that worked out fine.

I was just saying that it only worked fine because we replaced bruce with an elite (top 5 pick).

Im saying that unless we do the same (in bringing in a top 5/elite talent), to replace him- it's not worth trading seb for a 2nd rounder.

Yes but bruce wasn't directly traded for King was he?
So the point is Ross for whoever and then a replacement via fa or some other way like bruce

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Not wingard, but I've floated the idea with hawks fans on other boards and they agree that they have too much of the same thing in worpel, mitchell and omerea (who is a blue collar inside workhorse since his injuries).

They all seem wedded to all 3 though, (omerea is their next captain, worpol is the future and tmitch their brownlow winner currently at rock bottom value).

I think any one of those 3 would be great for us, but realistically i think mitchell would be the most gettable- but the asking price would rightly be probably 2 firsts if he was infact gettable.

Which, given he's 28 next year, would be too much for what he is.

Sucks for hawks though- i think they are going to have a slow, unbalanced midfield for years without moving 1 of them on.

Viney is the guy who is in the sweet spot for our situation, brayshaw as a consolation prize

You Keep mentioning Viney. Nice, i'd like him too, but he's not gettable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We need mids as our number one priority.

Imagine being able to play billing’s and Gresham mainly as forwards.

Yep.
The Cats would have played Chapman and Johnston as mids if they hadn't had Ablett, Selwood, Corey, Ling and Bartel.
They would have been OK too.

 

[Joffaboy]

This argument that player X wouldn't be good enough to be in best 22 of a top 8 is a bullshit argument and has no substance.

There have been so many average footballers that have been part of a premiership side.

Plus you don't know if player X may actually fit the system and game plan of any top 8 side.

Who said that? My post said Ross can obviously play and therefore has currency but would not be a B&F in a top 8 team.

Even this year if we make it, no way Ross is a B&F winner.
I think he can play and would have currency, but we need to improve our list, especially mids.
Nothing at all about him not good enough to play in a top eight team.