Unsolved The Family Murders

[Kurve]

The Who's Who List

• #2,647

Out of Sight - The Untold Story of Adelaide's Gay Hate Murders

The Cases of Forensic Pathologist Colin Manock

Use this thread below to lodge media, maps and photos for quick reference.

Unsolved - The Family Murders - MEDIA

This thread may be used to post the Family Murders media related content. To include press and gathered photographs from various sources. Please feel free to post but as this is a no discussion thread, comments will be deleted or moved at discretion. WHO'S WHO VICTIMS AB - Alan Barnes 16yo...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Kurve]

This is the pre-trial admission of evidence hearing (1991) re charges over AB and ML:


---

Gary Place to establish a brief acquaintance in the week before Barnes disappeared. This witness gave evidence at the preliminary examination that he

was a former school friend of Barnes. He said that on a Saturday in June 1979 he met Barnes in the city and, after going to a location near the River Torrens, they went on to the Gateway Hotel on North Terrace. They sat at a table with a group of people, one of whom was the accused. There was some conversation at the table about a party which was to take place that evening. On the following Thursday or Friday evening the witness went to either the Gateway Hotel or the Strathmore Hotel with Barnes. They again sat at a table with a group of people including the accused. According to Mr Place the accused said it had been a good party on the previous Saturday evening and that there had been "a lot of women there, drugs, alcohol". The witness then left the table and the next he heard of Barnes was on the following Monday when he was told of his death.



---



I'll try to dig up more info but at the moment it looks like;



GP meets AB on the Thurs or Fri night (BVE, Woodards and Darko are present)

Somewhere Mr B testifies he saw AB on the Fri night.



But so what? But the new books says part of the reason the case fell apart if because GP said he saw AB Fri night and Mr B also claimed he saw him Fri night. The book also says - so what, GP was likely Thur night, Mr B Fri - play on.



My confusion - I thought Mr B claimed he was with AB on the Sunday. He said this in the same pre-trial admission of evidence hearing (1991);

---
The witness then said that shortly before he read of Barnes'disappearance in the newspapers he had been with the accused when the accused had given Barnes a lift in his car. He said that the incident took place while Barnes was hitchhiking near the northern parklands. Barnes said he wanted a lift to Salisbury. While in the car Barnes was given some drinks and tablets. He was asked if he wanted to go to a party and he said "Yes". The accused drove back towards North Adelaide and stopped at a cafe. Later he stopped and made a telephone call. He told Mr B. that he had rung a man named Mr R and that he had arranged to meet Richmond near the toilets on the River Torrens bank, adjacent to the City bridge. Mr B. said the accused met and spoke to Mr R at this location. When the accused returned to the car he said to Mr B. "Do you want to come with us and do some surgery on this guy?" In response to a question from Mr B. the accused said that Mr R was going to come along.
---


So it looks like the whole thing is about proof that BVE knew AB. Mr B said he saw AB on Fri night.....


Hang on a second - I'm sure I've read that Mr B said he'd never met AB before BVE picked him up on Grand Junctio Rd?

Confused.....let me think this through more....

In the application for permanent stay of proceedings, there's quite a bit of information.

For anybody who wants to take a look.

THE QUEEN v. BEVAN SPENCER VON EINEM File No. 208 of 1990 Judgment No. 2740 Number of pages - 28 Application for permanent stay of proceedings [1991] SASC 2740 (3 March 1991)

 

[JezMez]

I might just summarise and clarify my last post because it's confusing;

Mr B testified in court that he was with BVE when they picked up AB on a Friday night. BVE drugged him, called Mr R, then drove to #1 Beat to meet Mr R. BVE asks Mr B if he wants to come with them to do some "surgery", Mr B declines and head to Patches disco on North Tce (a short walk).

GP (Gary Place) testifies in same court hearing that he met with AB (and BVE, Woodards, Darko) on the same Friday night.

The court determines that both GP and Mr B claim they were with AB on Fri night. Someone is lying. Prosecution lose credibility. This contributes to case not going to trial.

Other evidence suggest that AB was witnessed alive hitching along Grand Junction Rd (by Darko, and some other dude who drove past who knew AB) on mid Sunday afternoon. This other witness saw a car matching BVE's pull over for AB.

So it's likely Mr B is lying about which day they picked up Barnes. Mr B said he left BVE and Mr R with a passed out AB in #1 beat and went to Chances disco (on a Fri night). But we know that AB was abducted on the Sunday afternoon when Chances would have been closed. It's likely Mr B changed the day of the abduction from Sunday to Fri because on Friday night he actually was at Patches and it gave him an alibi.

Mr B = murderer.

 

[JezMez]

Question 1

Re: The Family Murders e-book

Intro P 6

Suspect list for RK;

BVE
Mr R
Mr R's BF (His name is either Mike or Gerry)
1 TV
2 Doctors (SGW and ???)
1 Hairdresser (DSD)


Ch 6 P 8

Suspect list 1983 during RK investigation was

BVE
Mr R
Mr R's BF (Mike or Gerry)
1 TS
1 Doctor (although another supplied the drugs) (SGW)
1 Hairdresser (DSD)
2 teenage males - probably Peejay (17 and suspected of being in car), and Clocker (they suspect RK was taken to his unit)


Ch 7 P 13

Mr R was close to Woodards and another Doctor who is a surgeon who passed his medical exam with Dr R (Dr Robert). Friendship between BVE, Mr R, SGW and the other Doctor was initially through DS (Derrance).


Questions

1a. Who is the second Doctor? We know SGW is one (Stephen George Woodards), but who is the other? There is a "Doctor R" or a "Doctor Robert" from a clinic in Croydon who was BVE's main supplier of date rape drugs, but apparently he was never on a suspect list.

1b. Why are the lists different? Perhaps the suspect list evolved from the start of the investigation to a point later on?

1c. Why is JL not on that list? The book says that it's likely JL (a female friend of BVE's named Jacquie who was a nurse and lived in a unit in Stepney) and PeeJay were in the car with BVE when they abducted RK, and then they took him to Clocker's unit in Collinswood.

 

[JezMez]

Question 2

Re: The Family Murders e-book


Ch 7 P 13

Mike was Mr R's business Partner and boyfriend and owns the house they live in (back then and now). It has a cellar that was unlikely to be searched at the time - 28 July 1983. Mike purchased the home in 1972 and still owns it today. Built in 1928, Mike bought it in 1972 at age 25 and still owns it.


Ch 8 P 5

Mr B testified in court that Mr R's boyfriend Gerry threatened him with a gun.


Ch 8 P 8

Mr B testified that he originally didn't mention Mr R in his police statement (I assume 1979) because he was scared of Mr R and his boyfriend Gerry who had shown him a gun.

Summary P 7

Gerry the BF of Mr R from 1973-1983 still lives in the same house (with Mr R)


Questions

2a. Who is Mr R's boyfriend? Is it Mike? Is it Gerry? Are they the same guy and Gerry is a nickname? Is his name Mike Gerard? Or is Gerry his piece on the side?


Does anyone have access to RP Data? I wouldn't mind looking up the house I've ben told Mr R lives in and seeing if it was built in 1928 and last purchsed in 1972 by a Mike or Gerry.

 

[GreyCrow]

fhi1044354x_sandsandmc1973

This interactive publication is created with FlippingBook, a service for streaming PDFs online. No download, no waiting. Open and start reading right away!

images.slsa.sa.gov.au

Can check names and addresses

Cross reference real estate using address on google

Might find house history

 

[JezMez]

Question 3

Re: The Family Murders e-book

Let's talk about Colin

Ch 9

- Took his own life at 42
- Was being molested at 14 and thinks that is why he was gay
- Came out at 15 and immediately felt alienated by his family
- Before he was 16 he was getting paid for sex
- His main beat was Veale Gardens
- Two of his main customers were in their 40s and linked to The Family
- The elder client had a beard and had an English accent
- He became one of Colin's regular in the late 80s
- This guy was high up in a hospital and took Colin to the hospital to have sex in private rooms
- The younger of clients drove a mercedes, was a successful small business owner, friend with BVE, never got out of his car

Summary P 9

Colin rekindled a relationship with a lawyer he knew from mid to late 80s. He was an original Family suspect (key player) in 82/83



Questions

3a. The obvious question is, "is Colin our boi?". Unfortunately not. The age doesn't match. Colin was 16 in circa 1988. Colin was scared of Mr R. Would not have had sex with him years later. Colin is not Mr B.

3b. Who is the elder client? The younger client is clearly Mr R. Who is the older guy? SGW is 4 years younger than Mr R so it can't be him. This is the other Doctor talked about in Question 1. A few years older than BVE and Mr R with an English accent. Who is he?

3c. Who is the lawyer Colin rekindled his relationship with? There's no mention of a lawyer suspect in the 82/83 investigation in this book and it can't RDB because Colin despised him. Seems like something is amiss here.

 

[megadeth92]

He was a glorified bookkeeper. He wasn't a CPA.

Not dissing bookkeepers but he was a lower middle class dude who was extremely influential in the LGBTI scene and had a knack of using people and wheeling and dealing to satisfy his sexual desires. Part of his network were the upper end of town (RDB, Dr SW, Mr R etc) but that was just a small part of his network that transcended top to bottom.

Yes, sorry, I'm not trying to defend him in terms of his character - shocking individual.

 

[JezMez]

Yes, sorry, I'm not trying to defend him in terms of his character - shocking individual.

Don't worry, no one thinks that. I'm just mindful about misrepresenting the social and professional standing of the The Family. Right from the get-go there has been a push to paint them as a bunch of elites above the law who are protected because they are in high places. Even TFMB (The Family Murders Book) starts with that line because it's juicy and seemingly gets readers hooked but when you have an objective look at it, it's a wide cross section of the gay community from elite to pleb.

AB's mum and family felt they were purposely stopped from justice but it's more likely it's just bureaucracy and the system. The system doesn't work for victims. It never has and it never will - they just get trodden on and left behind.

When we think about the predominant theme of The Family it's "judges, lawyers, politicians, high society, people from the highest echelons of power" etc

In reality it's;

BVE - a bookkeeper who worked in an industrial estate
Mr R - a wealthy guy who runs a small niche retail shop
SGW - A Dr who ran a sports physio
Dr X - A doctor who we are yet to know his identity
RDB - A magistrate
Mr B - A child prostitute with a drug problem
DSD - A hairdresser
LT - A transvestite with a drug problem
PF - A transexual with a drug problem
NB - A transvestite with a drug problem
JL - a nurse who is a faghag
PJ - Another child prostitute with a drug problem
Clocker - another young male prostitute

How many of those people can use their power and influence to escape justice?

RDB - It would have been easier in his position to keep his head above water but could have he held a meeting with a politician and demanded suppression orders be placed?

Mr R - He's a well-off small business man. He's not fabulously wealthy and powerful, just moneyed. Can hire the best lawyers to make sure that suppression order doesn't get lifted. That's across the board though - the best lawyers have a way of getting their own way all the time. That's why they charge the highest fees. Mr R can afford it. This doesn't equate to powerful people protecting other elites though.

I wish the media would stop pushing this line because it's misleading and doesn't help.

I want to know why the police haven't gone after LT and others. One last crack at getting the truth.

 

[Bits]

I want to know why the police haven't gone after LT and others. One last crack at getting the truth.

I still reckon it’s partly immunity deals in return for evidence at trial. Turtur has openly admitted that he, and others, raped unconscious young men. Ok they may or may not have been underaged, but at the very least it was non-consensual. The new book tells us that Novak was present on many occasions when boys were picked up, and she gave evidence in court too.

But there was physical evidence - hair and fibre - against BvE which sealed his conviction. Unless there is hard evidence against anyone else for a specific crime, what can they charge the others with? If there was hard evidence that any of them were involved in the murders , charges would have been laid by now. I assume the level of required proof of a specific crime by a specific person just isn’t there.

For the most part it’s just a parade of unidentified and unidentifiable victims who were drugged and raped by any combination of Turtur, Firman, Brooks, Gant, Mr R etc.

I’m no lawyer but the range of crimes could be anything from abduction, assault, sexual assault, rape, accessory before/after the fact, murder, interfering with a corpse, improper disposal of the bodies.

What charges could be laid? Other than war crimes, is it even possible to charge an amorphous group of people with non-specific crimes against unidentified victims?

 

[JezMez]

I still reckon it’s partly immunity deals in return for evidence at trial. Turtur has openly admitted that he, and others, raped unconscious young men. Ok they may or may not have been underaged, but at the very least it was non-consensual. The new book tells us that Novak was present on many occasions when boys were picked up, and she gave evidence in court too.

But there was physical evidence - hair and fibre - against BvE which sealed his conviction. Unless there is hard evidence against anyone else for a specific crime, what can they charge the others with? If there was hard evidence that any of them were involved in the murders , charges would have been laid by now. I assume the level of required proof of a specific crime by a specific person just isn’t there.

For the most part it’s just a parade of unidentified and unidentifiable victims who were drugged and raped by any combination of Turtur, Firman, Brooks, Gant, Mr R etc.

I’m no lawyer but the range of crimes could be anything from abduction, assault, sexual assault, rape, accessory before/after the fact, murder, interfering with a corpse, improper disposal of the bodies.

What charges could be laid? Other than war crimes, is it even possible to charge an amorphous group of people with non-specific crimes against unidentified victims?

You're right. The problems are;



1. As you said, how do you get evidence?
2. No one knows the full story except probably BVE, Mr R and SGW. The rest probably know snippets of it and they're dying one by one.

These guys/girls are dead:

DSD
RDB
PF
NB

and probably more.



These are the people police and media should go after;

BVE
Mr R
SBW


Then pretty much need to give immunity for everyone else.

So who knows what?

Mr B - where's our boi? Is he dead? I suspect he was present at AB's murder. He went to police within days which shows some sort of not wanting to be a part of it and I suspect that was the last he had to do with BVE. I'd be willing to allow Mr B a 5 year sentence if he spills on what happened (providing he was present at AB's murder which I think he was).

JL (Jacquie) - where's she gotten to?

LT - probably not a lot more than he's already said. But I'd be asking him with the condition of immunity if he knows aything more specific about the 5 boys or where RK was kept etc.

Clocker - he's apparently still about. Full immunity if he admits that RK was taken to his unit and anything else he knows.

Peejay - Full immunity if he reveals who was in the car that day

RR and "A" - immunity for info on how Stogneff was procured.


So how can it be done?

1. Have someone strong who will lift those suppression orders. I understand the argument for suppression orders and even though Mr R has not been found guilty of anything, common sense tells us he was up to his neck in it and shouldn't be allowed suppression any longer.
2. Police to re-interview all and offer immunity deals
3. Get the media to approach the people who have been offered immunity deals and put pressure on them. Tell them they are going to be exposed and if they talk they will at least be able to tell their side of the story.


Obviously not that simple and probably won't result in a single charge, but at least more of the truth will come out. If it's done in the media then things that aren't allowed in court can be said.

Enough is enough, some just do something about it.

 

[Kurve]

I’m no lawyer but the range of crimes could be anything from abduction, assault, sexual assault, rape, accessory before/after the fact, murder, interfering with a corpse, improper disposal of the bodies.

What charges could be laid? Other than war crimes, is it even possible to charge an amorphous group of people with non-specific crimes against unidentified victims?

I haven't thought about this in any real depth yet but criminal conspiracy springs to mind.

 

[Bits]

I haven't thought about this in any real depth yet but criminal conspiracy springs to mind.

But you’d still need a specific crime with proof of involvement in the planning of it wouldn’t you? I’m not being snarky, I genuinely don’t know.

 

[Kurve]

But you’d still need a specific crime with proof of involvement in the planning of it wouldn’t you? I’m not being snarky, I genuinely don’t know.

Yeah I do need to think about this a bit more, I grabbed a thread of thought the other night on how it could proceed to really put the screws on whoever's still living and then I lost it.

Given admissions to rape have already been made by some or many of them, whether that might work will be in their statements.

It's a shame we can't get hold of them, including Mr. R's. I'd assumed he'd clammed up and wouldn't talk to the police at all.

 

[fortunatecrow]

Maybe I am over-complicating things but is there any chance that people involved actually gave evidence against BVE with his agreement and an understanding that he wouldn't say they were involved. He knew he was gone anyway but at at least they get immunity for anything other than murder which in practical terms gets them away scot-free?

 

[AdelaideGT]

It had me wondering if rent boys and street kids who might be a bit wiser or even knew who to avoid had made it harder for these predators to lure boys from within, if the pickings were getting slim.

What do you think AdelaideGT ?

I noticed on SBS's Out of Sight: The untold story of Adelaide's gay hate murders here: https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/feature/out-sight-untold-story-adelaides-gay-hate-murders that boys who frequented the beats would take the number plates of cars their friends got into or were lurking. To one, it was a game to make a word out of the first three letters and to note the make and colour of the car.

Often people would take note of any licence-plates (particularly from unfamiliar cars) when others got in them. Often you might know a frequenter of the beats only as 'Mr RGB' (example only) or 'Mr Corolla' because of their licence-plate/car. As many were 'straight' or married, you would never see them on the gay scene.

Teenagers like me at the time were wary, but then again - even without murders going on - you had to be wary of anyone including the police or straight trouble-makers as you could easily be hassled, robbed or bashed when hanging around one of these places late at night.

I must say that as far as I remember there was little 'prostitution' going on at the beats as there would have been too much competition giving it away for free.

 

[AdelaideGT]

CMc

Yep that's the one.

 

[JezMez]

Maybe I am over-complicating things but is there any chance that people involved actually gave evidence against BVE with his agreement and an understanding that he wouldn't say they were involved. He knew he was gone anyway but at at least they get immunity for anything other than murder which in practical terms gets them away scot-free?

Maybe. He's been super tight-lipped as have most others. Mr R coughed up some info but it was just testimony as to some methods BVE used to get young men into his car. This may have been the "sure, he picks up, drugs, and rapes young men, but he lets them go" testimony.

I wonder if Mr R, SGW etc have lived the last 40 years wondering if BVE was going to spill?

 

[AdelaideGT]

I get very confused with all the initials in here. Wish real names could be used lol

On another matter, does anyone know exactly when the Buckingham Arms ceased operating as a gay venue? I see it mentioned in the thread (including maps) though at the time of the Kelvin murder (and perhaps some others attributed to the 'Family') the gay community were no longer welcome there.

At the time of the Kelvin murder, the only gay pub was 'The Colonel Light' and the other two late-night gay venues were Fiddler's and the Mars Bar. It wasn't until later that the Green Dragon opened. Before this time, Don Storen managed the 'City Hotel' in Hindley St, which was a straight pub but attracted all sorts.

 

[Deni]

Can I please add something then i'll go away.
There is a woman out here in the internet world, Facebook, many YouTube videos, and god knows where else.
Several times she has said that her father, Max McIntyer had Richard Kelvin down in some tunnels under Adelaide somewhere.
She says he was kept there for a week or more along with Louise Bell, who she calls Tracy.
I won't go into the nitty gritty about what was allegedly done to them but I will say that she said Richards father was there watching
when he finally got murdered.
This woman is dangerous, I say that because she has thousands of followers who go after anyone that disagrees with her.
I have been called a peodofile*, a satanist, MK Ultra, you name it, ivé been called it, they follow me to groups that I post in
and inform people that i'm not to be liked or trusted.
They are dangerous because one day someone is going to commit suicide if they keep going, I can take the abuse, but some
others can't and I feel so sorry for them that I can't do anything except to talk to them kindly..

Now my point in posting this here is because I know, and of course everyone else here knows, that Richard was a part of
the 'Family murders' and his father, well it's not something to contemplate, except with complete scorn..
I just wish I could do something to stop her!!
Thank you for your time and I can be found on the Beaumont children section if needed.
Keep up the excellent work guys and gals!

 

[Kurve]

Just on Peter Stogneff vanishing on the 27th August which was exactly the same day as Neil Muir but two years later.

I know some of you in here get into the library in SA sometimes, any chance one of you might have a quick look at the gap year in between the two murders which was 1980, to see if anything that might be related in a similar theme was reported?

Worth a mention just in case anybody has plans of going in. Ta.

 

[JezMez]

Often you might know a frequenter of the beats only as 'Mr RGB' (example only) or 'Mr Corolla' because of their licence-plate/car.

Lol. Probably how Mother Goose got his name. If Harvey Weistein were American Indian his name would be Shrivelled Pecker. Sitting Bull. Crazy Horse. Shrivelled Pecker.

 

[Kurve]

Mother Goose apparently walked like a goose, it's in the book. Also mentioned in this by Serkan Ozturk 2018.

He was given the nickname Mother Goose for his distinctive gait and the way that he walked as he moved around South Australia’s capital city. Some sections of the media meanwhile referred to him as “a prominent member of Adelaide’s 1980s gay scene”.

MOTHER GOOSE FINALLY COOKED! Justice at long last for victims of one of Australia’s worst suspected paedophile rapists, Robert William Symonds

EXCLUSIVE: Having escaped justice for decades, the long-time suspected paedophile, Robert William Symonds, also known as ‘Mother Goose’, has finally been brought to account after being …

truecrimenewsweekly.com

 

[Kurve]

This might help with the names. Let me know if I get any of it wrong, I can add to it and put it in the OP somewhere as a reference. AdelaideGT

VICTIMS
AB - Alan Barnes 16yo
NM - Neil Muir 25yo
PS - Peter Stogneff 14yo
ML - Mark Langley 18yo
RK- Richard Kelvin 15yo

* DS - Derrance Stevenson high risk lifestyle pornographer and criminal lawyer shot to death

DECEASED
DSD - Denis St Denis hairdresser
RBD - Richard Dutton Brown the magistrate
PF - Pru Firman
SN - Sarah Novak
BG - Brian Gant
NB - Noel Brook also known as Di Di
TP - Trevor Peters of the diaries
PM - Dr. Peter Leslie Millhouse acquitted for the murder of Neil Muir

LIVING until further notice
BVE - Bevan von Einem also known as 'Bevbang' to inner circle and 'Vonnie' in the prison system
Mr R - The businessman name suppressed
SGW - Dr Stephen George Woodards
Mr. B - Teenage prostitute and informant name suppressed
JL - Jacquie the nurse mentioned in the ebook as a good friend of and who rented a unit close to BVEs unit we assume name suppressed?
LT - Lewis Turtur also known as 'Louie'
A - The older teenage boy Peter Stogneff's parents feel may have had something to do with their son's abduction
RR - Raymond Rozankowski who was a friend of BVE and lived in the same street as A

DK - Darko Kastellan assistant to Gambardella
GG - Gino Gambardella chiropractor fled to Italy

*DS - David Szach convicted for the murder of criminal lawyer Derrence Stevenson

 

[megadeth92]

Don't worry, no one thinks that. I'm just mindful about misrepresenting the social and professional standing of the The Family. Right from the get-go there has been a push to paint them as a bunch of elites above the law who are protected because they are in high places. Even TFMB (The Family Murders Book) starts with that line because it's juicy and seemingly gets readers hooked but when you have an objective look at it, it's a wide cross section of the gay community from elite to pleb.

AB's mum and family felt they were purposely stopped from justice but it's more likely it's just bureaucracy and the system. The system doesn't work for victims. It never has and it never will - they just get trodden on and left behind.

When we think about the predominant theme of The Family it's "judges, lawyers, politicians, high society, people from the highest echelons of power" etc

In reality it's;

BVE - a bookkeeper who worked in an industrial estate
Mr R - a wealthy guy who runs a small niche retail shop
SGW - A Dr who ran a sports physio
Dr X - A doctor who we are yet to know his identity
RDB - A magistrate
Mr B - A child prostitute with a drug problem
DSD - A hairdresser
LT - A transvestite with a drug problem
PF - A transexual with a drug problem
NB - A transvestite with a drug problem
JL - a nurse who is a faghag
PJ - Another child prostitute with a drug problem
Clocker - another young male prostitute

How many of those people can use their power and influence to escape justice?

RDB - It would have been easier in his position to keep his head above water but could have he held a meeting with a politician and demanded suppression orders be placed?

Mr R - He's a well-off small business man. He's not fabulously wealthy and powerful, just moneyed. Can hire the best lawyers to make sure that suppression order doesn't get lifted. That's across the board though - the best lawyers have a way of getting their own way all the time. That's why they charge the highest fees. Mr R can afford it. This doesn't equate to powerful people protecting other elites though.

I wish the media would stop pushing this line because it's misleading and doesn't help.

I want to know why the police haven't gone after LT and others. One last crack at getting the truth.

i used to be an auditor and am very familiar with industrial estates. Once I audited a 100-employee company all by myself in three weeks and I was 23-years-old, that was 1993, imagine that happening now. I can just imagine BVE's company - nothing much happens, the place just reproduces its operations year after year, once you get the hang of the job it would be a very routine, simple and boring job probably, everything would have been paper-based obviously too for a company like that in 1983. BVE's mind must have wandered to places where it shouldn't have been going. Your comments suggest you might have actually met the guy, is that correct or did I misinterpret?

 

[JezMez]

Your comments suggest you might have actually met the guy, is that correct or did I misinterpret?

Never met him or anyone else associated with The Family or victims of. Just read a lot of stuff and once you look into the case closely you realise the typical "The Family are all high society so they're protected by the establishment" commentary is a misrepresentation. There is an element of truth, but it misses the true crux of who and what The Family were. Talk to most Adelaidians and they firmly believe it's all high society and they can't be talked out of it. People believe what they want to believe I guess.

Interestingly the new book (TFMB) claims Derrance was murdered by The Family in some mafioso style hit to warn the rest of The Family that they couldn't leave. This theory is simply laughable but some people like to believe it because it's "more fascinating". Remove all the fairy tales about mafioso style hits, people being silenced, 100s of more dead bodies, The Family being entrenched in the halls of Adelaide power etc etc and what's left is a fascinating story. A fascinating but unthinkable and horrible story. This story doesn't need all those fairy tale gimmicks.