Rumour AFL asks WAFC to commit 65 mill to competition over 3 years

[theyellowsash]

Talk of forces mergers, folding club's, breakaway leagues etc is all just crap. The AFL forcing mergers and folding clubs will just see 90% of that supporter base lost, and probably some from other clubs as an objection to the action. Breakaway leagues will fizzle and die like the aleague and big bash and you'll just end up destroying both the new and old league and being left with a dogshit product. Neither of these are a solution to short or long term money issues.

The first thing that needs to happen is for executive and player pay to take a big cut. The league takes in hundreds of millions a year, that should be more than enough to run the clubs. There is some obvious fat that needs to be cut.

Second, don't merge or fold clubs, but stop giving money to the clubs for their survival. If money is to be given out to club's, it should be either equal to all (eg the AFL gives all clubs the money to cover player wages so that club's can compete fairly for player services), or based on the earnings the club contributed (or AFL members who nominated that club, merch, attendance etc). Clubs should be made to support themselves and If they cant and fold as a result, then the supporters can only be mad at themselves for not supporting the club, or the club for mismanagement. A club with 40k members at just $150 a membership (probably a low number really) is making 6mill from that alone. If the AFL cover player wages, you can't tell me that isn't enough to run a club.

 

[eastfreo75]

You disagree?

You're full of crap.

Two reasons why Fremantle Dockers came into exists.

First that with only one WA club West Coast would dominate the comp with players returning. A second WA club was used by the VFL to weaken the Eagles.

Second being, that a joint East-South Fremantle application was stopped by the WAFC. Knowing that the VFL would accept the application at some time, the WAFC decided to control the team themselves.

 

[eastfreo75]

And claremont belted freo after freo poached their head coach and best players.

Are you saying claremont should be in the AFL ahead of freo?

wot?

 

[StCicatriz]

You're full of crap.

Two reasons why Fremantle Dockers came into exists.

First that with only one WA club West Coast would dominate the comp with players returning. A second WA club was used by the VFL to weaken the Eagles.

Second being, that a joint East-South Fremantle application was stopped by the WAFC. Knowing that the VFL would accept the application at some time, the WAFC decided to control the team themselves.

Lol no ones talking about their admission into the AFL...

I'm talking about how they and the competition are still afloat right now due to funding acquired in season 2020!!!

 

[StCicatriz]

wot?

Correct. Obviously not well versed in the history of your own club.

Do you remember the games played against the WAFL clubs prior to your first season?

 

[eastfreo75]

Lol no ones talking about their admission into the AFL...

I'm talking about how they and the competition are still afloat right now due to funding acquired in season 2020!!!

you have seriously funny thinking. So because of St Kilda the season went ahead?

Your crap club got $17m last year vs Freo's $10m.

 

[StCicatriz]

you have seriously funny thinking. So because of St Kilda the season went ahead?

Your crap club got $17m last year vs Freo's $10m.

How do you think the AFL is currently funding the season?

 

[eastfreo75]

How do you think the AFL is currently funding the season?

ok...……...

Loan on Docklands and Saints play at Docklands, therefore the Saints are funding the AFL.

My dog is black. All dogs must be black. My cat is black, therefor my cat is a dog.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Vic Bias 100%.

Last year, Fremantle and West Coast got $20m from the AFL. St Kilda got $17m and The Blues $15m.

WA percentage wise get less funding than Victorian at grass root football.

West Coast a powerhouse Got less Friday night games than Carlton last year.

Fremantle get the horrible TV spots, yet got the equal lowest amount of funding from the AFL.

Give the Northern teams more money and the traditional state teams equal money.

If the smaller Victorian can’t pull their weight they need to relocate, merge or fold.

So here we go then, all clubs that don't pull their weight need to merge or fold in your mind?

Then i would say goodbye Freo also, why should other clubs be propping you up in these hard times?

 

[eastfreo75]

So here we go then, all clubs that don't pull their weight need to merge or fold in your mind?

Then i would say goodbye Freo also, why should other clubs be propping you up in these hard times?

Fremantle before this year financially is about 8th in the AFL and get lowest assistance from the AFL.

All of the Big Victoria clubs get more money from the AFL than Fremantle. Carlton get 50%. more funding than the Dockers and Saints 70%.

They make the second highest money from membership in the AFL.

7th highest home attendances.

The last Friday game we played was in 2016 and that was only once in the season.

While, majority of games are in the last time slot. This reduces our ability to get corporate dollars.

WAFC take their cut from Fremantle because the AFL underfund WA football.

We have the highest amount of travel and play most years in at least 6-7 states or territories.

Even with all the disadvantages we still make small profits.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Fremantle before this year financially is about 8th in the AFL and get lowest assistance from the AFL.

All of the Big Victoria clubs get more money from the AFL than Fremantle. Carlton get 50%. more funding than the Dockers and Saints 70%.

They make the second highest money from membership in the AFL.

7th highest home attendances.

The last Friday game we played was in 2016 and that was only once in the season.

While, majority of games are in the last time slot. This reduces our ability to get corporate dollars.

WAFC take their cut from Fremantle because the AFL underfund WA football.

We have the highest amount of travel and play most years in at least 6-7 states or territories.

Even with all the disadvantages we still make small profits.

Oh cry me a river.

You said struggling clubs should fold or merge, well Freo is struggling in these tough times, fold or merge.

Or are you just a hypocrite?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I agree with you, it would of been well reported by now if there was any truth to it.

The AFL are always open and honest and never control what the media says at all

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

WAFC only get $185,000 a year? That isn't much isn't it?

That is for the entire WAFL colts competition btw

12 months ago AFL gave Country Victorian amateur cliubs access to 18 mill in funding....

What do you reckon is more important?

 

[eastfreo75]

Oh cry me a river.

You said struggling clubs should fold or merge, well Freo is struggling in these tough times, fold or merge.

Or are you just a hypocrite?

Majority of clubs will need to get assistance this year.

What I am talking about is that the same smaller Victorian clubs getting hand outs on a constant bases.

You are not being intellectually honest.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Majority of clubs will need to get assistance this year.

What I am talking about is that the same smaller Victorian clubs getting hand outs on a constant bases.

You are not being intellectually honest.

You want me to be more honest?

You talk about folding clubs who are struggling, then say Freo get crap time slots.

Do you know why you get crap time slots?

No-one wants to watch Freo, no-one cares enough about them, just like you don't care about St.Kilda.
So next time you say a club should fold, think about it, if it comes to the crunch, maybe people will start calling for your club to fold.

 

[FreeTK]

Oh cry me a river.

You said struggling clubs should fold or merge, well Freo is struggling in these tough times, fold or merge.

Or are you just a hypocrite?

You want me to be more honest?

You talk about folding clubs who are struggling, then say Freo get crap time slots.

Do you know why you get crap time slots?

No-one wants to watch Freo, no-one cares enough about them, just like you don't care about St.Kilda.
So next time you say a club should fold, think about it, if it comes to the crunch, maybe people will start calling for your club to fold.

Being an assisted club in and of itself doesn't mean that club is struggling. You need to look as fundamentals of how that club is run and be able to determine their ability to pay down debt, and recover over the next couple of years.

People calling for Freo to fold don't know shitt about shitt when it comes to AFL. Freo is a small club, but from an off field perspective they punch well above their weight. They have 50K members, average 40K attendance and despite recording a loss last year of 1.6m (largely due to sacking CEO/Coach) went in to COVID crisis debt free with a small amount of money in reserves (about 1.5 million).

Given the lucrative nature of the Optus Stadium user agreement, Fremantle will be able to recover their position quicker than other clubs of comparable size, and that will be hastened if Freo continue to improve their on field success.

If there is contraction in the size of the competition, many clubs would be out the door well before Freo.

In terms of merging/relocating/folding clubs, there are two arguments:

First in First out: This applies to GWS and GCS. Idea is they are a drain on AFL resources and people speculate (wrongly IMO) that they will never be able to truly stand on their own two feet. Defenders of those two clubs say they are of utmost strategic value as the room for growth is largest in two northern markets

You've had your time and failed miserably: The argument that gets used when discussing small Vic clubs, mostly St Kilda and North. Argument is they have huge debts, a long history of living on the breadline and have struggled for most of their time in the competition (80-100 years). Most people point to the asymmetrical structure of the comp as being an impediment to national competition, and those two teams will have to take the hit as 10 Victorian teams is unsustainable.

Freo doesn't fit either of those arguments, and you are just being petty, and wildly flailing and having a crack at someone for having an opinion you don't like.

It goes to show just how uninformed you are, and exposing your rudimentary knowledge of football and the competition.

Complete noob.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

You want me to be more honest?

You talk about folding clubs who are struggling, then say Freo get crap time slots.

Do you know why you get crap time slots?

No-one wants to watch Freo, no-one cares enough about them, just like you don't care about St.Kilda.
So next time you say a club should fold, think about it, if it comes to the crunch, maybe people will start calling for your club to fold.

Freo get crap time slots because their fans turn up anyway. THey have already paid

Carlton get good timeslots because their "members" are on 1 game memberships, arnt real and they need the best timeslots to increase the crowd size. Despite this they still need the biggest handout. Its a bit like giving your alcoholic son a cash loan after he burnt through the first cash loan on booze while your loyal son studying and working hard gets nothing.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Being an assisted club in and of itself doesn't mean that club is struggling. You need to look as fundamentals of how that club is run and be able to determine their ability to pay down debt, and recover over the next couple of years.

People calling for Freo to fold don't know shitt about shitt when it comes to AFL. Freo is a small club, but from an off field perspective they punch well above their weight. They have 50K members, average 40K attendance and despite recording a loss last year of 1.6m (largely due to sacking CEO/Coach) went in to COVID crisis debt free with a small amount of money in reserves (about 1.5 million).

Given the lucrative nature of the Optus Stadium user agreement, Fremantle will be able to recover their position quicker than other clubs of comparable size, and that will be hastened if Freo continue to improve their on field success.

If there is contraction in the size of the competition, many clubs would be out the door well before Freo.

In terms of merging/relocating/folding clubs, there are two arguments:

First in First out: This applies to GWS and GCS. Idea is they are a drain on AFL resources and people speculate (wrongly IMO) that they will never be able to truly stand on their own two feet. Defenders of those two clubs say they are of utmost strategic value as the room for growth is largest in two northern markets

You've had your time and failed miserably: The argument that gets used when discussing small Vic clubs, mostly St Kilda and North. Argument is they have huge debts, a long history of living on the breadline and have struggled for most of their time in the competition (80-100 years). Most people point to the asymmetrical structure of the comp as being an impediment to national competition, and those two teams will have to take the hit as 10 Victorian teams is unsustainable.

Freo doesn't fit either of those arguments, and you are just being petty, and wildly flailing and having a crack at someone for having an opinion you don't like.

It goes to show just how uninformed you are, and exposing your rudimentary knowledge of football and the competition.

Complete noob.

LMAO
You call me a noob yet have no idea what i am doing.

I don't want any clubs to fold or merge, my whole point is to get people to feel how the Saints and Roos supporters feel when they call for them to fold.

And here you are calling for the same.


How would you feel if there was a vote and it was voted that we need 3 teams in WA, but the only way that would work is fold WC and start 2 new clubs?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Freo get crap time slots because their fans turn up anyway. THey have already paid

Carlton get good timeslots because their "members" are on 1 game memberships, arnt real and they need the best timeslots to increase the crowd size. Despite this they still need the biggest handout. Its a bit like giving your alcoholic son a cash loan after he burnt through the first cash loan on booze while your loyal son studying and working hard gets nothing.

The AFL don't dictate the timeslots you know.

 

[FreeTK]

LMAO
You call me a noob yet have no idea what i am doing.

I don't want any clubs to fold or merge, my whole point is to get people to feel how the Saints and Roos supporters feel when they call for them to fold.

And here you are calling for the same.


How would you feel if there was a vote and it was voted that we need 3 teams in WA, but the only way that would work is fold WC and start 2 new clubs?

I know exactly what you are doing.

It isn't about how I would feel, it is about forming a view on the best way forward for the competition.

I notice you aren't calling out posters who are saying GCS and Giants should fold, even though there is an argument to keep them in the competition that is just as compelling, if not more, than there is to support the two struggling Victorian clubs.

Perhaps in your mind, some clubs are expendable, even though you cry foul at anyone mentioning St Kilda or North. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

In terms of a 3rd WA club, no one wants that in the competition except some disgruntled Vic/Freo supporters who want to see West Coast's market dominance diluted. A 3rd WA club has no obvious benefits to the competition other than attempting to restrict West Coast. There is no obvious geographical location this imaginary club would represent, there is no obvious demographic they would draw as supporters, and there is no way to attract more WA supporters to AFL in WA as it is a traditional footy state with longstanding allegiances to one of the two clubs that already exist there.

The reason why your argument exposes you as a noob is that your calls to fold Fremantle has no solid basis. Like I said in my previous post, there are two prevailing arguments as to which clubs should fold/merge/relocate and Fremantle does not fit in either of those arguments.

Calling for Fremantle's exit from the competition is devoid of any serious considerations, and those calling for it are noobs.

On the other hand, while unedifying, questioning the value of either the two newest clubs, or smaller struggling Victorian clubs is legitimate in a time where the competition has lost significant revenue, and costs of running the competition are greater.

You may not like it, but posters calling for St Kilda and North to fold/merge/relocate are valid, and worth engaging with.

Arguments to fold Fremantle are not valid or have any evidentiary basis. It's simply having a crack at a poster for expressing a view you don't like. It is a blatant example of playing the man, not the ball.

And that is why you are a noob.

 

[bluespooner]

If it is true that they want a loan, let's say they did what you just said and told the AFL to go jump.

Then a couple of years down the track the AFL went belly up, then made a new comp from the ashes, how do you think your chances would be to get a gig in that comp?

I would give an ambitious club such as West Perth a better chance of getting a gig and being financially successful in a new competition from the current AFL bailout franchises such as GC, GWS, Melbourne, St Kilda and North.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I know exactly what you are doing. The reason why your argument exposes you as a noob is that your calls to fold Fremanlte has no solid basis. Like I said in my previous post, there are two prevailing arguments as to which clubs should fold/merge/relocate and Fremantle does not fit in either of those arguments.

Calling for Fremantle's exit from the competition is devoid of any serious considerations, and those calling for it are noobs.

On the other hand, while unedifying, questioning the value of either the two newest clubs, or smaller struggling Victorian clubs is legitimate in a time where the competition has lost significant revenue, and costs of running the competition are greater.

You may not like it, but posters calling for St Kilda and North to fold/merge/relocate are valid, and worth engaging with.

Arguments to fold Fremantle are not valid or have any evidentiary basis. It's simply having a crack at a poster for expressing a view you don't like. It is a blatant example of playing the man, not the ball.

And that is why you are a noob.

Ok, it's ok you think i'm a noob.

But here is the gist of what you are saying.

Saints and Roos have, i would guess, 8 times the support Freo have, but you think it's ok to fold them 2 clubs and lose all that support.

I think we know who the noob is.

 

[FreeTK]

Ok, it's ok you think i'm a noob.

But here is the gist of what you are saying.

Saints and Roos have, i would guess, 8 times the support Freo have, but you think it's ok to fold them 2 clubs and lose all that support.

I think we know who the noob is.

What are you basing your assumption on?

"I would guess" that you just pulling numbers out from where the sun don't shine. Your argument is completely unsupported by the facts.

Of those 3 clubs, Fremantle has both the highest membership (in 2019 and 2020) and the highest average home game attendance. Fremantle averaged 40K HGA compared to 25K for St Kilda, and 20K for North.

Fremantle is also in the best financial position of those clubs, illustrated by Fremantle 2019 revenue being 10m+ greater than those two clubs, even though Fremantle's AFL dividend was 11.8m compared to St Kilda at 30m and North at 24m.

The reason you're a noob is your argument doesn't make sense.

Please, keep responding to demonstrate what a fool you are.

You can see the financial results from the clubs here:

 

[LoungeLizard]

What are you basing your assumption on?

Of those 3 clubs, Fremantle has both the highest membership (in 2019 and 2020) and the highest average home game attendance.

Fremantle is also in the best financial position of those clubs, illustrated by Fremantle 2019 revenue being 10m+ greater than those two clubs, even though Fremantle's AFL dividend was 11.8m compared to St Kilda at 30m and North at 24m.

The reason you're a noob is your argument doesn't make sense.

Please, keep responding to demonstrate what a fool you are.

You can see the financial results from the clubs here:

Do you think the tv give a rats about which club is the most financial?

All they care about is who watches and outside of WA, no-one watches Freo.

If you fold the Saints and Roos, you lose all those supporters to football, less viewers, less tv rights.

Let me give you a hint, Vic has more viewers than all the footy states combined.

So again, noob and fool, yes we know who that is.

 

[FreeTK]

Do you think the tv give a rats about which club is the most financial?

All they care about is who watches and outside of WA, no-one watches Freo.

If you fold the Saints and Roos, you lose all those supporters to football, less viewers, less tv rights.

Let me give you a hint, Vic has more viewers than all the footy states combined.

So again, noob and fool, yes we know who that is.

You seem to be of the opinion that only TV ratings in Victoria count.

All the arguments that you use to support Victorian clubs are just as relevant to Fremantle, most of the arguments apply to Fremantle more than it does North and St Kilda.

Fremantles TV ratings, which are primarily in WA are greater than ratings St Kilda and North get.

Your argument just doesn't make sense.

But please, continue. Watching ignorant folks twist their arguments like a pretzel is very entertaining for a Sunday morning.