Norths list strategy. Genius or disaster?

[Dazb86]

Easily a first Rounder. At the end of the day he is a proven goal kicker, this year being a rather large exception for a variety of reasons both on and off the field.

If for example he was second fiddle to a Hawkins type team mate, damn hard to defend both.

I can actually see both the club and player walking this back, just like Martin did. Just need to eat a bit of humble pie on both sides, oh and get a new manager; Rama screwed this up big time.

It feels like a lose/lose situation if he walks to be honest. Neither parties will get asking value.

 

[owen87]

Going to say something random here. I know Ben Brown has had an ordinary year compared this last 3 years. Yes he has had 3 seasons in a row kicking 60 goals each.

I'm curious what his trade value is. Pity he is only 7 years in. In a way I wished he signs a one year deal to stay at north. That makes him a free agent next year as he has done his 8 years and easier to trade off.

I think he is worth a 1st rounder. Pick 14-18 to be exact. Not sure if north would accept a couple of 2nd rounders like 25 and 30.

I think this is a bit like a Stringer scenario, where once the club has come out and said publicly they want to trade him, they'll be willing to accept lesser compensation.

If he goes to Geelong they might get a late first if North pay some of his salary, or a second if Geelong take the whole lot.

 

[MrWoollie]

Going to say something random here. I know Ben Brown has had an ordinary year compared this last 3 years. Yes he has had 3 seasons in a row kicking 60 goals each.

I'm curious what his trade value is. Pity he is only 7 years in. In a way I wished he signs a one year deal to stay at north. That makes him a free agent next year as he has done his 8 years and easier to trade off.

I think he is worth a 1st rounder. Pick 14-18 to be exact. Not sure if north would accept a couple of 2nd rounders like 25 and 30.

Given that he is 28 this year, he is a limited time span option. I'd put him as a second rounder because of his age, injury risk and the fact that you would be taking a punt on being able to fix him between his ears.

You could end up with a great get who boosts your team for 3-4 years (and then fades) or someone who takes a big salary and provides nothing but headaches.

Given that Norf have publicly shopped him, that tends to reduce what they are likely to get as well. He is also really only of value to some clubs, and salary affordable to only a few of them. I know the Hawks are short of decent tall goal kicking options, but given that they are years away from being a realistic chance, does he actually offer them anything (for example)?

 

[littlegg]

i think its great idea hitting the draft i reckon with a keen eye there will be some great value at pick 40 onwards...

downside is i don't rate the youth at north, simpkin (i rate highly) great start of the year than dropped off, ldu body a issue? larkey bad ankles? mckay can't kick... scott will be a star, taylor muh? hayden a back pocket player ? mahony i like alot but he is years away and no star power imo.. thomas muh

 

[mouncey2franklin]

Brady Rawlings and Rhys Shaw looking at the end result of the Brad / Joyce era:

Despair bordering on disgust.

So they've done what needed to be done. And there'll be more to come in less than twelve months time.

Next season will be painful for the supporters but this is 'the recession we had to have', so to speak.

Several highly talented young players already on the list, to be assisted by two drafts worth of additions.

Sometimes I can't but help wonder if Boomer passed his self-first attitude to Petrie who then passed it on to Ziebell.

All aided and abetted by Brad 'You're first job as a foootballer is to buy a house' Scott.

Well by the time season 2022 rolls around, it won't matter.

Brady has my full support.

 

[Freomaniac]

Given that he is 28 this year, he is a limited time span option. I'd put him as a second rounder because of his age, injury risk and the fact that you would be taking a punt on being able to fix him between his ears.

You could end up with a great get who boosts your team for 3-4 years (and then fades) or someone who takes a big salary and provides nothing but headaches.

Given that Norf have publicly shopped him, that tends to reduce what they are likely to get as well. He is also really only of value to some clubs, and salary affordable to only a few of them. I know the Hawks are short of decent tall goal kicking options, but given that they are years away from being a realistic chance, does he actually offer them anything (for example)?

I could see Ben Brown in a dogs or even in a Collingwood shirt to be honest.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Delisting 11 players is fine, there will be plenty of talent out there they can pick up as DFAs, and plenty of talent that falls in the draft. No issues with that move.

The problem is selling low on Higgins and Brown. They were seemingly under some delusion a year ago that they could compete for a flag soon, because keeping Higgins made little sense otherwise. Brown also had real value last year and a lot less now. Good teams buy low and sell high, bad teams buy high and sell low. I blame Shaw for giving Brown a serve in public right after the news broke that he'd lost an unborn child. Horrible people management.

 

[Saint]

I only just found out Geelong have 3 1st round picks. Wouldn't be surprised to see them use one of those to trade. Richmond got Lynch when they already had Riewoldt.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

The concept of the cleanout is fine. But just an unlucky god-awful year to be loading up at the draft. So much risk due to minimal exposed top-age form. The eventual size of lists the AFL lands on is really important - if other clubs are at the point where they are forced to delist players who they would have otherwise kept around then there might be some nice opportunity for picking up a few best 22 players that will help out their (really talented) group of youngsters coming through.

 

[Belnakor]

I only just found out Geelong have 3 1st round picks. Wouldn't be surprised to see them use one of those to trade. Richmond got Lynch when they already had Riewoldt.

Riewoldt is cooked. That was just Richmond seeing the writing on the wall a year before everyone else.

 

[Belnakor]

The concept of the cleanout is fine. But just an unlucky god-awful year to be loading up at the draft. So much risk due to minimal exposed top-age form. The eventual size of lists the AFL lands on is really important - if other clubs are at the point where they are forced to delist players who they would have otherwise kept around then there might be some nice opportunity for picking up a few best 22 players that will help out their (really talented) group of youngsters coming through.

i'm not sure i get the premise.

So we're basically saying north's list is so bad that delisted players from other clubs would improve their list.

hmm ok yeah that makes sense.

 

[3rd Grade Maggy]

i'm not sure i get the premise.

So we're basically saying north's list is so bad that delisted players from other clubs would improve their list.

hmm ok yeah that makes sense.

I think what I'm saying (using the Tom Browne style of writing) is that they have a group of talented kids who are going to need a few meat-shields to help them out. You don't learn anything getting beat up by 10 goals each week. This year the quality of the players getting delisted is going to be higher than usual and there is going to be some treasure in that pile. Definitely going to be solid role players who can get down and dirty and do a job for you.

 

[Lach72]

I don't think Shaw has much of a clue which is a greater issue than the list...;he's making decisions with Rawlings on these players and I reckon he'll be sacked by end of next year

 

[Pykie]

I don't think Shaw has much of a clue which is a greater issue than the list...;he's making decisions with Rawlings on these players and I reckon he'll be sacked by end of next year

You have a really weird concept of the hierarchy of football clubs.

Rawlings makes the final call on these sorts of things, not the coach (for the very reason you are implying) and Rawlings most certainly isn't getting sacked by the end of next year.

 

[Freomaniac]

I only just found out Geelong have 3 1st round picks. Wouldn't be surprised to see them use one of those to trade. Richmond got Lynch when they already had Riewoldt.

the reason the tigers did that meant that Riewoldt played CHF and Lynch FF

 

[Dr Awkward]

Whether or not you agree with what they are doing on paper, it's terrible for club morale.

Guys like Higgins and Brown are good club men, shown leadership, commitment etc. Sends a bad message to the playing group if you just want to ship them off. What would Ziebell and Cunnington be thinking!?

 

[Mcarcherey]

Delisting 11 players is fine, there will be plenty of talent out there they can pick up as DFAs, and plenty of talent that falls in the draft. No issues with that move.

The problem is selling low on Higgins and Brown. They were seemingly under some delusion a year ago that they could compete for a flag soon, because keeping Higgins made little sense otherwise. Brown also had real value last year and a lot less now. Good teams buy low and sell high, bad teams buy high and sell low. I blame Shaw for giving Brown a serve in public right after the news broke that he'd lost an unborn child. Horrible people management.

What gives you the impression they're 'selling low' on higgins and brown? media speculation? if browns management doesn't find a better deal than $750k x years he'll be back at north. geelong are enquiring about higgins and north is open to a trade, one of those 3 first rounders will be on the table i assume...

FYI higgins was free and brown was pick 47.

and shaw didn't give brown a public serve.

Whether or not you agree with what they are doing on paper, it's terrible for club morale.

Guys like Higgins and Brown are good club men, shown leadership, commitment etc. Sends a bad message to the playing group if you just want to ship them off. What would Ziebell and Cunnington be thinking!?

that's true, good thing north aren't shipping them off.... Brown rejected a offer he won't get elsewhere and higgins is getting asked the question by geelong, north aren't shopping him around for scraps....

 

[Johnny Bananas]

What gives you the impression they're 'selling low' on higgins and brown? media speculation? if browns management doesn't find a better deal than $750k x years he'll be back at north. geelong are enquiring about higgins and north is open to a trade, one of those 3 first rounders will be on the table i assume...

Brown was essentially told to find a new home and Higgins told he wouldn't be offered a contract beyond next year, I'll find the media reports if you want. I say selling low because Brown had a bad year and is uncontracted, while Higgins is already 32. Geelong aren't going to trade a first round pick for someone that old.

 

[Mcarcherey]

Brown was essentially told to find a new home and Higgins told he wouldn't be offered a contract beyond next year, I'll find the media reports if you want. I say selling low because Brown had a bad year and is uncontracted, while Higgins is already 32. Geelong aren't going to trade a first round pick for someone that old.

Brown was told to find a new home because his contract expectation was far to high...and i doubt any other clubs are going to pay that either. If that occurs he'll stay at north for the contract they offered or lower.

Higgins being told he isn't being offered a contract beyond next year isn't 'shopping him around'. if anything it's quite smart as other teams will have to trade this year in order to obtain his services, otherwise they have to wait another year. Geelong don't have to part with a first rounder, if that's the case though they'll also will have to then wait another year more to try and get their dangerflag with higgins, North isn't selling low either way and hold the power.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Brown was told to find a new home because his contract expectation was far to high...and i doubt any other clubs are going to pay that either. If that occurs he'll stay at north for the contract they offered or lower.

Higgins being told he isn't being offered a contract beyond next year isn't 'shopping him around'. if anything it's quite smart as other teams will have to trade this year in order to obtain his services, otherwise they have to wait another year. Geelong don't have to part with a first rounder, if that's the case though they'll also will have to then wait another year more to try and get their dangerflag with higgins, North isn't selling low either way and hold the power.

Alright, we'll see. Feel free to tag me if Brown stays at North or Higgins goes for a first round pick.

 

[Alesana]

UPDATE: Roos cut six coaches amid wider staff cuts

Senior assistant Jade Rawlings is among half a dozen of Rhyce Shaw's team to depart the club

www.afl.com.au

In 2006 Richmond finish 9th. They sign Rawlings and finish 16th, 9th and 15th.
In 2009 Brisbane finish 6th. They sign Rawlings and finish 13th and 15th.
In 2011 Melbourne finish 13th. They sign Rawlings and finish 16th, 17th, 17th, 13th, 11th, 9th, 5th and 17th.
In 2019 North finish 12th. They sign Rawlings and finish 17th.

God help whoever signs him next.

 

[Tas]

I don't look at this in terms of genius versus disaster. It's pretty much the only option but how they execute on it is up for grabs, but it won't be for some years until they know if they got it right.

If I were a Norf supporter I would be seeking accountability at the board level for rejecting what Scott told them 12 months ago only to realise it was the right plan so soon afterwards. Not sure who those people are, but for them not to be moved on will be the real disaster.

I feel sorry for Rhyce Shaw. He was appointed, at least partly, on the basis that they did not need a rebuild. I would have thought that a more experienced coach was necessary in a rebuild phase. Time will tell, but this could end up ruining his career.

This talk of rebuild is largely bullshit imo. Rawlings got rid of almost everyone who was struggling physically for some time and was out of contract, got rid of any defender who constantly leaked goals and was dubious by foot, also let go of players who didn't seem to be up to AFL standard. This may look like rebuilding from the outside looking in, but Rawlings is doing what should have been done years ago. I don't think anyone we delisted will be picked up by anyone else.

We weren't shopping Higgins around, but the club said they couldn't guarantee him a contract beyond 2021 and IF he could find a deal somewhere else that goes beyond 2021 and he felt it was in his best interest then we would be okay letting him go if the compensation was reasonable. Higgins was already pushed out of his core midfield role and next year that should be Cunnington, LDU and Simpkin. Most of the opposition who have a tagger chose to run with LDU instead of Higgins, I think that says a lot.

I think we already have some talented midfield talent, we do not need to rebuild to get access to some. We have Thomas, Scott, Will Walker and Curtis Taylor, combined with LDU and Simpkin it gives us a solid base which we will no doubt be looking to improve over the next couple of years. We have mature mids still in Anderson, Dumont and Tyson if Higgins chooses to go.

Polec can play, he just packed his own bags after the Carlton game when he refused to continue tagging Cripps after half-time, despite doing a good job of it in the first half.

I think if it was just an issue of money when it comes to Brown we would have just overpaid him, we are probably close to $2m under the TPP, it wouldn't kill us to overpay someone we valued. I don't think there are any major problems with him physically, but I think he is in part a bit of a barometer in terms of the huge variance of output between games that he can play on his terms and games that are not.

I think the difference between successful clubs and those that are not is that the players for those that are not are comfortable to perform within certain parameters and it is more about them than it is about the team. It is obvious we have had too many senior players happy to give up when the going gets tough. We do not need a rebuild, we just need to be rid of the mediocre mindset that Scott allowed to fester in the club for close to a decade.

Anyone who isn't part of the picture long term is gone regardless who they are or what they did in the past. Brady is even prepared to get rid of his own brother, the son of a close friend. He isn't making just easy decisions. He might not have the desired effect in the long-run, but if things do change for the better than he would have had been the impetus for it.

 

[Freomaniac]

Contracted depth

I am curious on Norths ideas of using those 2 1st rounders. Pick 2 and 11 will be handy for north. Can easily get a KPF and decent mid with those 2 picks. Saying that, I'm curious if anyone is crazy to pay a fair bit for pick 2.

Would you trade pick 11 for a 2021 1st rounder and hope that side finishes bottom 6?

 

[Ricky112]

By Shaw going on the "rebuild" path after falling flat on his face this season, it buys him three more years.

 

[tazaa]

UPDATE: Roos cut six coaches amid wider staff cuts

Senior assistant Jade Rawlings is among half a dozen of Rhyce Shaw's team to depart the club

www.afl.com.au

In 2006 Richmond finish 9th. They sign Rawlings and finish 16th, 9th and 15th.
In 2009 Brisbane finish 6th. They sign Rawlings and finish 13th and 15th.
In 2011 Melbourne finish 13th. They sign Rawlings and finish 16th, 17th, 17th, 13th, 11th, 9th, 5th and 17th.
In 2019 North finish 12th. They sign Rawlings and finish 17th.

God help whoever signs him next.

I cannot believe he has lasted this long.
Absolutely the poison chalice of any assistant coach of all time.

He must be a talent at power points presentations. That 2018 has turned out to be an anomaly.