Who's closer to their next premiership: Carlton or Freo?

[raffrox]

Do you often contradict yourself or is it more of a recent thing.

If hes competing with Weitering then he's an undersized KPD. You can't have it both ways.

This sort of confused thinking and lack of understanding is why you're the only non-expansion club still without a single premiership...let alone the "next" one.

What confused thinking and lack of understanding do you have then if this is representative of your recent history?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ca...s/news-story/c58ca7d8b153ca9f84c8c52441d3d5fa

Soak in what kind of level of extended failure that will be needed for that record to be broken.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Gotta give you guys credit, you sure do look for and wide to find positives to take out of a season...

Quarters won shows competitiveness. So does a low losing margin.
How often does an 11th placed team win more quarters than 4 teams above them (6 quarters more than the 5th placed team) and one less than the 2nd placed team?
How often does the 11th placed team have the lowest losing margin in the league?
Both good indicators that a jump up the ladder is more than likely. Add in Saad and Williams, the return of Curnow, Marchbank and Newman. A healthy Cripps (Oliver came back pretty strong after double shoulder surgery).
The writing's on the wall, but you can't read it because you're too busy banging your head against it.
But you do you sister!

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

What confused thinking and lack of understanding do you have then if this is representative of your recent history?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ca...s/news-story/c58ca7d8b153ca9f84c8c52441d3d5fa

Soak in what kind of level of extended failure that will be needed for that record to be broken.

Some pretty illustrious company there.
A Brownlow medalist. A hall of famer with club legend status and team of the century VC. A premiership player who's in two teams of the century. A hall of famer and premiership coach. And Nathan Jones, who still has a chance of breaking that record (now up to 198).
Even Brent Harvey has played in 194 losses.
Robert Harvey (185), Nathan Burke (184), Stewart Loewe (184), Robbie Flower (184), Pavlich (183), Ted Whitten (180).
They're all pretty ordinary players.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

This thread title is misleading because Freo have never won one.

 

[Freomaniac]

This thread title is misleading because Freo have never won one.

The title should be Freos 1st flag or Carltons 17th, which one will happen 1st?

 

[Freomaniac]

I think there's a bit to be garnered from this. Quarters won for the year.
Carlton equal 4th with 39 quarters won (Freo were 14th with 26 quarters won - I couldn't fit them on the screen). We all know Carlton's issues this year with 1 blowout quarter letting a team out to an early lead, letting them back in the game, or just killing our chances, but it's a promising sign for next year. That combined with the fact that we had the lowest average losing margin in the league.

We had Cripps playing injured most of the year, missed Kreuzer, Newman, Curnow, Silvagni and Marchbank. Fisher only played 8 games. McKay only 13. McGovern only 12.
Also didn't get a chance to get any games into Kemp, so he's virtually a new recruit.
Some are looking at our similar win/loss and percentages as a guide that we're fairly evenly matched.

I can't speak for Freo's injury issues, but I'd say this info tips the scales in Carlton's favour.
View attachment 978702

Thats a very interesting stat you brought up.

So blues won 39 quarters yet Freo won 26 quarters.

That stat can be deceiving. Because both Carlton and Freo both won 7 games each.

I am also curious on the average winning margin of Carltons 7 wins and Freos 7 wins as both sides had have their fair share of narrow wins this season.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Quarters won shows competitiveness. So does a low losing margin.
How often does an 11th placed team win more quarters than 4 teams above them (6 quarters more than the 5th placed team) and one less than the 2nd placed team?
How often does the 11th placed team have the lowest losing margin in the league?
Both good indicators that a jump up the ladder is more than likely. Add in Saad and Williams, the return of Curnow, Marchbank and Newman. A healthy Cripps (Oliver came back pretty strong after double shoulder surgery).
The writing's on the wall, but you can't read it because you're too busy banging your head against it.
But you do you sister!

Apparently, the "writing has been on the wall" at the conclusion of at least the last ten seasons, it's just that said writing tends to be buffed by the midway point of the ensuing season! Lol.

 

[Freomaniac]

Quarters won shows competitiveness. So does a low losing margin.
How often does an 11th placed team win more quarters than 4 teams above them (6 quarters more than the 5th placed team) and one less than the 2nd placed team?
How often does the 11th placed team have the lowest losing margin in the league?
Both good indicators that a jump up the ladder is more than likely. Add in Saad and Williams, the return of Curnow, Marchbank and Newman. A healthy Cripps (Oliver came back pretty strong after double shoulder surgery).
The writing's on the wall, but you can't read it because you're too busy banging your head against it.
But you do you sister!

Again, it can be a deceiving stat.

I am still bitter about Freo goin' 0-10 in 2016. And 4-18 after 22 games. I know Freo were better than that. Fortunately 2017 proved that Freos 2016 was a fluke.

Freos 2016 stats: 73 points per game in attack and 96 points a game in defence. Percentage of around 74%. 16th spot. 4-18 win loss record.

Freos 2017 stats: 72 points a game in attack, 98 points a game in defence. Percentage of around 73 %. 14th spot and 8-14 win loss record.

Saying that, I thought it was funny at the end of that 2017 season, people bagged out Freos % being the worst of the AFL. I didn't care.

If you want to know why Freo were better stats wise in 2017 compared to 2016 was they had a few narrow wins.

Those 1st 10 rounds in 2016, the average losing margin was around 25-35 points.

Freo went 6-4 after 10 rounds in 2017. The average winning margin was around 15-20 points as Freo had narrow wins over the demons and north by under a goal and a 16 point win over the dogs and a 4-5 goal wins over Carlton and bombers.

Average losing Margin in the 1st 10 games of the 2017 was at least 50-60 points as Freo got belted by Geelong by 40 points, 89 points vs Port and a 100 point loss to the crows and a 40-60 point loss to the eagles in the derby.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Thats a very interesting stat you brought up.

So blues won 39 quarters yet Freo won 26 quarters.

That stat can be deceiving. Because both Carlton and Freo both won 7 games each.

I am also curious on the average winning margin of Carltons 7 wins and Freos 7 wins as both sides had have their fair share of narrow wins this season.

Carlton's was a league leading 16.5 points.
Freo's was a respectable 22.1 points.
Carlton's biggest issue (which isn't exactly a big secret), was generally one blowout quarter per game that let our opponent off the chain.
We either let them out to an early lead and then clawed them back, let them back into the game after getting an early lead, or let them run away after a close game.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Apparently, the "writing has been on the wall" at the conclusion of at least the last ten seasons, it's just that said writing tends to be buffed by the midway point of the ensuing season! Lol.

Cool contribution. The adults are trying to have a genuine discussion.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Cool contribution. The adults are trying to have a genuine discussion.

Bahaha, shut up. You have no idea as to who you're responding to.

 

[Freomaniac]

Carlton's was a league leading 16.5 points.
Freo's was a respectable 22.1 points.
Carlton's biggest issue (which isn't exactly a big secret), was generally one blowout quarter per game that let our opponent off the chain.
We either let them out to an early lead and then clawed them back, let them back into the game after getting an early lead, or let them run away after a close game.

yeah we have know about Carlton playing 3 solid quarters vs certain teams.

One game was the Carlton vs hawks game. Carlton had a very good 1st quarter. Then hawks came back with a very good 2nd quarter.

Random thing what I will say here.... I am definately in the minority on this view.

I don't mind the 15-16 minute quarters. Sure some games are low scoring. The only positive is, not too many sides have been belted by 60-80 points this year.

I still remembered the days of Ports 2011 season where they had 100 point defeats to Collingwood and hawks. Not to mention in 2011, Melbourne had that infamous 186 point loss to the cats in Geelong.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Bahaha, shut up. You have no idea as to who you're responding to.

Nor do I care. Your posting speaks volumes. Happy to converse if you want to make genuine contributions.
If you are just going to continue with the trash you've dished up so far, I will just scroll past.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

yeah we have know about Carlton playing 3 solid quarters vs certain teams.

One game was the Carlton vs hawks game. Carlton had a very good 1st quarter. Then hawks came back with a very good 2nd quarter.

Random thing what I will say here.... I am definately in the minority on this view.

I don't mind the 15-16 minute quarters. Sure some games are low scoring. The only positive is, not too many sides have been belted by 60-80 points this year.

I still remembered the days of Ports 2011 season where they had 100 point defeats to Collingwood and hawks. Not to mention in 2011, Melbourne had that infamous 186 point loss to the cats in Geelong.

It's had some positives. Think I'd rather go back to normal though.

 

[Freomaniac]

It's had some positives. Think I'd rather go back to normal though.

Again. Your opinion is slightly different but I respect it.

Saying that, that's probably the only positive in those 16 minute quarters.

You are not going to get 1 million people watch a top 4 club belt a bottom 4 club. It doesn't look good on tv if one club is already belted by 60 points at half time.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Nor do I care. Your posting speaks volumes. Happy to converse if you want to make genuine contributions.
If you are just going to continue with the trash you've dished up so far, I will just scroll past.

The feeling is mutual then...

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

The feeling is mutual then...

You're also happy to converse if you can bring yourself to make some solid posts? Good to hear. So it's up to you then. I'm sure you can do it if you try.
Wait... you made the post earlier about Judd not winning two Brownlows. Scratch that, I think we'll just part ways here.

 

[WaywardSonSon]

You're also happy to converse if you can bring yourself to make some solid posts? Good to hear. So it's up to you then. I'm sure you can do it if you try.
Wait... you made the post earlier about Judd not winning two Brownlows. Scratch that, I think we'll just part ways here.

My post regarding Chris Judd's past accolades was an outlier, based on a lack of research (which I generally pride myself on being thorough in). He was an elite player, who enjoyed a storied career, but I took little interest in his footbal heroics, as he did not take the field for the team I have supported for twenty six years. In relation to the thread topic at hand, I believe that Carlton's trading in of both Adam Saad, and Zac Williams, will not address the severe deficiency that exists within the midfield unit - that being an inside midfielder, who can assist in "shouldering" (a rather ironic term, given the player's injury plight) the load that Patrick Cripps is currently burdened with.

 

[raffrox]

Some pretty illustrious company there.
A Brownlow medalist. A hall of famer with club legend status and team of the century VC. A premiership player who's in two teams of the century. A hall of famer and premiership coach. And Nathan Jones, who still has a chance of breaking that record (now up to 198).
Even Brent Harvey has played in 194 losses.
Robert Harvey (185), Nathan Burke (184), Stewart Loewe (184), Robbie Flower (184), Pavlich (183), Ted Whitten (180).
They're all pretty ordinary players.

I was clearly wasn't having a crack at Simpson though.

Carlton had to lose an unholy amount of games for that to happen.

Pav playing for Freo for example played a half a season more games and lost an entire season less of games. Let that sink in.

 

[F_therest]

What exactly is the point of these threads comparing 2 clubs when there's 16 others? Especially Carlton & Freo who don't have anything to do with each other at all...maybe a thread against someone like Essendon would make a bit more sense.

Things looking up for us getting Williams & Saad...but gotta say Freo impressed this year and did better than I think a lot of people expected after losing Hill & Langdon. And Neale before that!

Got a good coach in Longmuire, the team is clearly well drilled and has a better culture than when Lyon was there.

Great decision to clean out the unprofessional players like McCarthy & Matera.

 

[Fadge]

Quarters won shows competitiveness. So does a low losing margin.
The writing's on the wall, but you can't read it because you're too busy banging your head against it.
But you do you sister!

Here we go, it must be October...

 

[Fadge]

Some pretty illustrious company there.
A Brownlow medalist. A hall of famer with club legend status and team of the century VC. A premiership player who's in two teams of the century. A hall of famer and premiership coach. And Nathan Jones, who still has a chance of breaking that record (now up to 198).
Even Brent Harvey has played in 194 losses.
Robert Harvey (185), Nathan Burke (184), Stewart Loewe (184), Robbie Flower (184), Pavlich (183), Ted Whitten (180).
They're all pretty ordinary players.

So you'll be proud when a few more Carlton players find their way on to that list over the next decade or two?

 

[RudyBlue]

It's almost as though Carlton don't actually 'target' players, but instead throw the chequebook at any halfway decent players that are willing to go there.

I mean, how many half back flankers does one club need?

Mature midfield depth, run from behind and a small forward are the pressing needs.

Getting Williams in as a mid is a bit of a gamble but he is certainly capable. Played a big game against your mob last September.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

My post regarding Chris Judd's past accolades was an outlier, based on a lack of research (which I generally pride myself on being thorough in). He was an elite player, who enjoyed a storied career, but I took little interest in his footbal heroics, as he did not take the field for the team I have supported for twenty six years. In relation to the thread topic at hand, I believe that Carlton's trading in of both Adam Saad, and Zac Williams, will not address the severe deficiency that exists within the midfield unit - that being an inside midfielder, who can assist in "shouldering" (a rather ironic term, given the player's injury plight) the load that Patrick Cripps is currently burdened with.

That's a better post.
Moving past the Judd thing, Saad allows SPS to move back to the middle (his natural position). This could be a wing or in the guts (capable of both). If he goes to a wing, this can allow Walsh to move back to the guts (spent most of his time on the wing this year for the first time), or they could both split time between the two.
Setterfield has been shouldering a bit of the load next to Cripps (3rd at the club for clearances) and improving each year now that he's getting a clear run at it after his injury problems at GWS (should be primed for a breakout year in what will effectively be his 3rd full year).
Which brings us to Williams. He spent the majority of his time at HB for GWS due to their stacked midfield, but he will be coming to us with the intention of playing a fulltime mid role, which he had some amazing games at GWS in the role when given the chance.
Here's a sample of some of his games where he was allowed to play midfield time.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

I was clearly wasn't having a crack at Simpson though.

Carlton had to lose an unholy amount of games for that to happen.

Pav playing for Freo for example played a half a season more games and lost an entire season less of games. Let that sink in.

There's not much to sink in. Unfortunately Simpson's time at the club coincided with some dark times. The salary cap penalties were some of the harshest handed down (harsher than Essendon's, despite them being found guilty of breaching in a premiership year, and when you take the player bans out of the equation, harsher than the club's drug penalties).
We struggled to adapt and compensate for those penalties and in the meantime, GCS and GWS came along at a time when we should have been the pick of litter, and got some of the biggest draft concessions in league history (which is to be expected for expansion teams), but was ridiculously poor timing for us and compounded the problem.
We copped our whack for cheating the system and that's the end result.