List Mgmt. Contracts. Trades. Draft. Other Assorted Crap. 2020 Edition

[boondy]

Asking for special circumstances regarding Venables is saying we will delist him but this looks like we are compassionate whilst Gil and Afl is not .

 

[squashface]

Lmao at campaigners still not getting Ellis-Yolman jokes.

Dark Sharks is turning in his grave

 

[ArdentEagle]

Patrick Cripps attending the Brownlow with the Eagles.

 

[squashface]

As well as Fremantle

 

[ArdentEagle]

As well as Fremantle

 

[squashface]

(Both teams are in the same room bruh)

 

[ArdentEagle]

(Both teams are in the same room bruh)

Lol...I have no excuse either as I actually slept reasonably well (for once) last night.

 

[CM9000]

We traded heavily out of two drafts to get Kelly and gave him a monster contract. That almost certainly leaves a big whole in the age profile of our list and leaves us with a tight salary cap that makes it tough to grab FA’s, inhibiting alternative methods of attracting talent. It was a lot of currency to spend and means that this trade could only ever be considered a success if we win a premiership with TK. Sadly now that’s looking less likely.

Given you typically need to bring in 2-3 players a year to assemble a premiership team, having two weak drafts puts us on the back foot for the next 10 years and we need to find a way to catch-up. Any players we drafted this year could still have been conceivably contributing to the team/premiership in 12 years time, which is obviously years after TK will have retired.

I’m not forgetting the potential weak/compromised draft, we’ve still paid a shitload and have limited our trade currency this year as a minimum.

As far as our stars, JK and hurn are on their last contracts and have already begun big drop offs. Nic nat and shuey are over thirty and will shortly be on the decline. Gov, shepp, darling and gaff are all 28 or over (yes gaff is 29 next year). We have 10 AA’s on our list, (11 if you count normies) and only 3 of them yeo, tk and Ryan are below 29 next year. Clearly the majority of our stars are 28 or over. We’ve got one of the worst under 25 teams in the comp and the tk trade only exacerbated that.


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Why is is suddenly looking less likely that we’re going to win a premiership with TK now? It’s literally his first season. Why are we any less likely to win it next year, when there will most likely be a normal season 2021? You do realise we had a once in a generation pandemic, right? It isn’t really fair to judge this season as a normal one.

Additionally, why does trading out of one draft mean we’re going to be set back for the next decade? Why does missing out on the first round in 2019 eliminate 2020, 2021 or 2022? What about those future drafts?

We also only limited our trade currency for this year in a single way, and that is by trading our first rounder. I think you might be overstating that.

I’m not sure it’s fair to limit our stars to AA players. For instance, I’d consider player like Sheed and OAllen integral to our success, and they haven’t got AA jackets (yet). Usually the limit for players going over the hill is 30, so I’m not sure why you’ve moved it to 28. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that we have the worst under 25 brigade in the league, especially when you consider the likes of:
* Oscar Allen
* Jake Waterman
* Dom Sheed
* Tom Barrass
* Liam Duggan
* Liam Ryan
* Tom Cole
* Josh Rotham
* Jarrod Brander (who I rate btw)
* Jarrod Cameron
* Xavier O’Neill

These are all players that have a big future, and with our KPP stocks set, we can focus entirely on he midfield. Remember, it’s harder to find quality key position players in general.

I think you’re looking for a doomsday scenario that isn’t really there.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Clearly people STILL don't realize that shipping off Darling and our 2nd rounder to Adelaide Brisbane for Ellis Yolman is in the pipework again.



I heard it on SEN, when i was walking past.

 

[Monocle]

Clearly people STILL don't realize that shipping off Darling and our 2nd rounder to Adelaide Brisbane for Ellis Yolman is in the pipework again.



I heard it on SEN, when i was walking past.

Oh we know where you were walking ................ dream big Dark Sharks.





When dreams sadly turn to .........

 

[Boots73]

Why is is suddenly looking less likely that we’re going to win a premiership with TK now? It’s literally his first season. Why are we any less likely to win it next year, when there will most likely be a normal season 2021? You do realise we had a once in a generation pandemic, right? It isn’t really fair to judge this season as a normal one.

Additionally, why does trading out of one draft mean we’re going to be set back for the next decade? Why does missing out on the first round in 2019 eliminate 2020, 2021 or 2022? What about those future drafts?

We also only limited our trade currency for this year in a single way, and that is by trading our first rounder. I think you might be overstating that.

I’m not sure it’s fair to limit our stars to AA players. For instance, I’d consider player like Sheed and OAllen integral to our success, and they haven’t got AA jackets (yet). Usually the limit for players going over the hill is 30, so I’m not sure why you’ve moved it to 28. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that we have the worst under 25 brigade in the league, especially when you consider the likes of:
* Oscar Allen
* Jake Waterman
* Dom Sheed
* Tom Barrass
* Liam Duggan
* Liam Ryan
* Tom Cole
* Josh Rotham
* Jarrod Brander (who I rate btw)
* Jarrod Cameron
* Xavier O’Neill

These are all players that have a big future, and with our KPP stocks set, we can focus entirely on he midfield. Remember, it’s harder to find quality key position players in general.

I think you’re looking for a doomsday scenario that isn’t really there.

You can add Big Red ( Bailey Williams )to that list

 

[Patron]

Why is is suddenly looking less likely that we’re going to win a premiership with TK now? It’s literally his first season. Why are we any less likely to win it next year, when there will most likely be a normal season 2021? You do realise we had a once in a generation pandemic, right? It isn’t really fair to judge this season as a normal one.

Additionally, why does trading out of one draft mean we’re going to be set back for the next decade? Why does missing out on the first round in 2019 eliminate 2020, 2021 or 2022? What about those future drafts?

We also only limited our trade currency for this year in a single way, and that is by trading our first rounder. I think you might be overstating that.

I’m not sure it’s fair to limit our stars to AA players. For instance, I’d consider player like Sheed and OAllen integral to our success, and they haven’t got AA jackets (yet). Usually the limit for players going over the hill is 30, so I’m not sure why you’ve moved it to 28. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that we have the worst under 25 brigade in the league, especially when you consider the likes of:
* Oscar Allen
* Jake Waterman
* Dom Sheed
* Tom Barrass
* Liam Duggan
* Liam Ryan
* Tom Cole
* Josh Rotham
* Jarrod Brander (who I rate btw)
* Jarrod Cameron
* Xavier O’Neill

These are all players that have a big future, and with our KPP stocks set, we can focus entirely on he midfield. Remember, it’s harder to find quality key position players in general.

I think you’re looking for a doomsday scenario that isn’t really there.

You either didn't read my post properly or have deliberately put some strawman's into your response. You haven't addressed or acknowledged several points I made in my previous post and I can't really be assed debating further as I don't have anything further to add than what I've already said.

The implications of the kelly trade for our club going forward are pretty obvious to those who understand list management and the draft in general. I don't really see the point in ignoring them or pretending he didn't cost a lot. At the end of the day it was a gamble to pay as much as we did for TK, and thus far at "quarter time", it's not looking like a winner.

 

[southcoast]

Oh we know where you were walking ................ dream big Dark Sharks. ‍


View attachment 989114


When dreams sadly turn to .........



View attachment 989115

You keep some weird stuff on your PC.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The implications of the kelly trade for our club going forward are pretty obvious to those who understand list management and the draft in general. I don't really see the point in ignoring them or pretending he didn't cost a lot. At the end of the day it was a gamble to pay as much as we did for TK, and thus far at "quarter time", it's not looking like a winner.

We paid more than any club has paid for any player, since trades were introduced. Anything less than a TK-led 2020 flag was going to leave us behind on that trade at this point.

That’s not the issue. The issue is why you think Geelong doing well this year has any bearing on the assessment of the trade. Given that nothing they acquired has helped them get there, and the only effect it has on us is moving that third rounder down a few spots from the late 40 to the 50s.

 

[Obeanie1]

You keep some weird stuff on your PC.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

Not really. Older men are advised to have their colons checked regularly and to keep the photos for future comparison.

Looks like it got a bit nasty there, think the 2nd photo is before and the one with the bloke, thats after Monocles reco.

 

[Obeanie1]

We paid more than any club has paid for any player, since trades were introduced. Anything less than a TK-led 2020 flag was going to leave us behind on that trade at this point.

That’s not the issue. The issue is why you think Geelong doing well this year has any bearing on the assessment of the trade. Given that nothing they acquired has helped them get there, and the only effect it has on us is moving that third rounder down a few spots from the late 40 to the 50s.

Can we at least wait and see how the Cats go using those picks.

Who did they get last year? They traded our 1st for the GC mid 1stc ompo pick this year. So pick 10 which will slide to at least 13, they could add another pick and trade into the top 10.

So really we need to wait until the draft plus add 10 years.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Can we at least wait and see how the Cats go using those picks.

Who did they get last year? They traded our 1st for the GC mid 1stc ompo pick this year. So pick 10 which will slide to at least 13, they could add another pick and trade into the top 10.

They took Cooper Stephens with our first, he’s still yet to debut.

The pick 24 which we’d gotten off Sydney (I think) previously is the one they traded to Gold Coast for a mid-first round pick this year. On paper it looked very one-sided but I guess Gold Coast rates Jeremy Sharp over the majority of players available in the teens this year. Had we kept that pick we might’ve just taken Sharp, being a local boy.

 

[Hell Yeoh]

Why are we any less likely to win it next year, when there will most likely be a normal season 2021? You do realise we had a once in a generation pandemic, right? It isn’t really fair to judge this season as a normal one...

Well said, except that it’s unlikely 2021 will be a “normal” season, unfortunately. Doubt we see a normal season till 2022.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Gee some of you guys have way to much faith in the draft.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Gee some of you guys have way to much faith in the draft.

When the choices are the best 16 year old ever, or some spud like Tim Kelly, I know which one I want

Eagles can't draft mids
Eagles trade for Tim Kelly
Now we have no draft picks for the mids we can't draft

 

[greatwhiteshark]

When the choices are the best 16 year old ever, or some spud like Tim Kelly, I know which one I want

Eagles can't draft mids
Eagles trade for Tim Kelly
Now we have no draft picks for the mids we can't draft

I usually go watch junior footy if I want to watch juniors play. I watch the AFL to watch the best of the best, not kids.

 

[Patron]

Gee some of you guys have way to much faith in the draft.

You realize that we drafted our best player with the highest pick we’ve had this millennium? NN was pick two, gaff four. High picks are worth their weight in gold because their probability of success is so high.


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[greatwhiteshark]

You realize that we drafted our best player with the highest pick we’ve had this millennium? NN was pick two, gaff four. High picks are worth their weight in gold because their probability of success is so high.


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You only get those picks finishing near the bottom of the ladder or trading out players for those picks.
We did not trade those picks for Kelly, we also got a very good player in Kelly and the odds on any of those picks getting a player of TK ability is less than 10%.
So what have we really missed out on?

And before you try and come at me let me preface this that I am not a huge supporter of the draft, it’s lottery system. I Woukd always trade before drafting unless I was in the bottom 4.

 

[Dark Sharks]

There's a fine line between draft picks being worth nothing, and everything. We picked a damn good year have no draft presence at least.


The Kelly trade should be assessed on whether WE win a flag in this 6 year period. That was the universal view on the trade. We sold the farm, and that's the expectation for what we paid. It was the only way people could cope with the price. Anything less than that outcome should be viewed as a loss.


I've got a feeling people are already dodging that non negotiable as well.


"Aww nah, yeah but he's a good mentor. Nah yeah a flag is a bit much, he's going to be around to lead our mids for a while..." So ******* what. Flag or bust.

 

[FKASC]

You only get those picks finishing near the bottom of the ladder or trading out players for those picks.
We did not trade those picks for Kelly, we also got a very good player in Kelly and the odds on any of those picks getting a player of TK ability is less than 10%.
So what have we really missed out on?

And before you try and come at me let me preface this that I am not a huge supporter of the draft, it’s lottery system. I Woukd always trade before drafting unless I was in the bottom 4.

You wonder whether it’s worth considering the opportunities you miss out on and afford opposition clubs through your eagerness to trade-in though.

In return for Bradley Hill, St Kilda effectively traded pick 10 and Blake Acres. Fremantle packaged 10 and a late second rounder for Melbourne’s pick 8, which got them a star in Serong.

Sure, a pick 8 could be a spud, but you suspect the Freo recruiters had done enough research to be confident he’d be available hence their move up the order before the draft.

Could St K have done the same deal with Melbourne if they left Hill at Freo? Who knows. Can you guarantee a player like Hill (or Kelly) will perform to the same past level at your club?

History has shown that, like drafting, it’s also a bit of a lottery whether traded players live up to their past performance.