Play Nice Random Chat Thread IV

[Joycey]

Given his (pre prez) history and family history it's hard to take his denunciations that seriously.

More kayfabe.

you mean the stuff from the 70s and the rent issue...

People were happy to forgive Robert C. Byrd. Hell, Biden even did his euology in 2010. People have forgiven Biden for his comments in the 70s.

There is no denying the US had a terrible history in that regard but people can and do change. Look how far western culture has come on issues like gay marriage and gender equality. I can only imagine some of the stuff that was said about those issues in the 70s. You wouldn't even go back that far.

 

[goalieboy82]

It's a stupid statement that really doesn't deserve any reply unless a political leader can be directly connected to such things.

It's kindergarten level politics.

NSFW

 

[ferball]

Respectfully, you don't need to keep saying "respectfully" I get that you're being respectful just in the way you're engaging me, if you disagree you don't need to preface it with "respectfully".

Many of the reasons you state I agree with, and are some of the reasons I can't stand the guy. His Covid response has been a nightmare, he uses deliberately inflammatory language, and his immediate response to the BLM protests was one of the most disgracefully bad displays of "leadership" I've ever witnessed.

I'm not going to respond to all of your examples of what you think are close to fascist behaviour, other than to say that most of those are ingrained in American politics. A few caught my eye though:

- "Undermining democratically elected State leaders" - aren't those very same democratically elected State leaders undermining their democratically elected Country leader? Why is it worse if Trump does it and better if a State Governor does it? Because we all hate Trump so it's ok? I disagree
- "Attacks on free press" - he treats the free press with the same scorn with which they treat him - they both give and take far more than they should and it reflects poorly on both
- "invalidating democratic electoral processes" - isn't that what Hilary and then the Democrats have spent the past 4 years doing?

Again, none of this reflects me supporting Trump, I'm just trying to be a neutral observer and I see poor behaviour on both sides. If you want to get to the crux of what I think: I think Trump is a product of a broken system. Rather than complain about the symptom, get to the heart of the issue and fix the system, and then the Trumps (and Bidens) of the world won't be running for President.

I think it's clear that calling someone an insulting nickname ("Dictator Dan", "The Mango Mussolini") is not the same as actually believing someone is a dictator or Mussolini reincarnate. My problem with Funky is that he actually believes Trump is a fascist, not just that he called Trump an insulting nickname. When I pressed him on it to understand why he actually believed that, he didn't respond. That being said, my personal preference is to not resort to childish name-calling of elected officials. My anecdotal experience is the same people that are crying foul about the title "Dictator Dan" are the same ones that are running with "Scotty From Marketing" and loved calling Abbott "The Mad Monk". Again, as someone that tries (and sometimes fails lol) to stay neutral, that strikes me as hilariously hypocritical.

Anyway, this post is long enough, otherwise people will start calling me Tas. Thanks for the chat, it's really engaging and challenging - and forcing me to think through more clearly what I think about all the s*** going on in America.

You can't put it on Trump, Tas Jr.

The US is held together by the tension between its libertarian origin story and its fascist desire to use power indiscriminately and with no regard for karma. Bush and Obama were as bad as Trump on that front.

System of a Down called the US a fascist nation fifteen years ago. They weren't wrong then and things haven't got any better since. Mussolini actually said:

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.

I guess that means we live in a fascist state too. Just not an authoritarian one.

 

[ferball]

you mean the stuff from the 70s and the rent issue...

People were happy to forgive Robert C. Byrd. Hell, Biden even did his euology in 2010. People have forgiven Biden for his comments in the 70s.

There is no denying the US had a terrible history in that regard but people can and do change. Look how far western culture has come on issues like gay marriage and gender equality. I can only imagine some of the stuff that was said about those issues in the 70s. You wouldn't even go back that far.

You might have.

Biden is scum.

 

[ferball]

Also GG there is a famous Australian law case where a gay guy took the Tasmanian government to the UN cos it was illegal for two gay men to have sex in Tassie. That law was finally overturned (by the feds) in 1994, after the footy season had started. So you have a point. We have come a long way in some ways.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

You can't put it on Trump, Tas Jr.

The US is held together by the tension between its libertarian origin story and its fascist desire to use power indiscriminately and with no regard for karma. Bush and Obama were as bad as Trump on that front.

System of a Down called the US a fascist nation fifteen years ago. They weren't wrong then and things haven't got any better since. Mussolini actually said:

Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.

I guess that means we live in a fascist state too. Just not an authoritarian one.

Great post and agree with what you're saying. Corporate power is one of the big issues with modern America (and indeed other modern democracies). The sooner we can get big business' dollars out of politics the better. I take the Tas Jr nickname as being positive, and not like "Dictator Dan" or "The Mango Mussolini"

 

[see see]

On top out West: McGowan nation’s most popular premier

Mark McGowan is by far the most popular Premier in Australia according to new polling released this afternoon that found 84 per cent of West Australians approved of his leadership of the State.

thewest.com.au

NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian had the second highest approval rating (67 per cent), followed by Queensland’s Annastacia Palaszczuk (62 per cent)

Despite presiding over the hotel quarantine debacle that resulted in hundreds of deaths and a second round of lockdowns, Premier Daniel Andrews enjoyed the support of 54 per cent of Victorians.

South Australian Premier Steven Marshall had the lowest approval rating of 51 per cent.

Nationally, Prime Minister Scott Morrison posted 63 per cent approval rating compared to Labor leader Anthony Albanese’s 44 per cent.

Mr Morrison also led Mr Albanese as preferred Prime Minister by 50 per cent to 25 per cent, with the remainder undecided.

WTF is the guy in SA doing to have a lower approval rating than Dan? Did he put a tax on stuffing bodies into barrels?

 

[DesertRoo]

In 2010 MasterCard, Visa, PayPal and other private institutions banned all donations to Wikileaks.
This is a government directing private enterprise to do its bidding. You could argue they are one in the same power structure. This is fascism, and it was during Obama’s first term.

Not sure it’s relevance to the current climate of dictator Dan Memes.

btw am I the only one who doesn’t mind the old nickname, it’s character building. I also think politicians need more character then the rest of us.. especially with all the self serving shit they try to pull, while we pick up the tab.

 

[Snake_Baker]

WTF is the guy in SA doing to have a lower approval rating than Dan? Did he put a tax on stuffing bodies into barrels?

You shouldn't underestimate the amount of tax payer gifted zombies in Victoria.

 

[krakouers]

WTF is the guy in SA doing to have a lower approval rating than Dan? Did he put a tax on stuffing bodies into barrels?

Would be interesting to get the approval numbers on the NT & Tasmania too

 

[Snake_Baker]

Where does he think this is going?

 

[DesertRoo]

Where does he think this is going?

I’d laugh if we find out Rudd gets $$ from Google and the like for speaking engagements or other random events.

 

[ferball]

In 2010 MasterCard, Visa, PayPal and other private institutions banned all donations to Wikileaks.
This is a government directing private enterprise to do its bidding. You could argue they are one in the same power structure. This is fascism, and it was during Obama’s first term.

Not sure it’s relevance to the current climate of dictator Dan Memes.

btw am I the only one who doesn’t mind the old nickname, it’s character building. I also think politicians need more character then the rest of us.. especially with all the sh*t they’re trying to pull, while we pick up the tab.

Yep. What a joke that was.

It's soft fascism in the West now but only cos no one has stood up and said "enough is enough". Greatest respect to Dave Graeber (R.I.P. and I do mean that, he should be required reading,) but Occupy just didn't cut it. When people finally say enough is enough and come for those campaigners in Wall St it will be on for young and old.

I don't think it will ever be that bad here.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I’d laugh if we find out Rudd get $$ from Google and the like for speaking engagements or other random events.

Does anyone believe that Murdoch wouldn't chew up and spit out a royal commission?

Surely this is about one man's fevered ego facilitated by the zombies?

 

[Sopwiths North]

I get that the source is not a reliable one, it’s a satire site, but the footage is clear isn’t it? I’m not going to find “more reputable” sites to collate these quotes when it’s all quoted here

Biden says Trump has never condemned white supremacy ... Here are 20 times he did just that

notthebee.com

Look, I get that you are closer to America, and you are much more passionate about the guy than I am. You hate him much more than I do - I suspect because you’re more left leaning and I would be classified as centre-right (although I’ve never voted for the Libs in my life). But the footage is all there, including the infamous “good people on both sides” line, where he denounced white supremacy literally seconds before the quote, but the media wanted you to believe he said they were all good people. As I’ve said all along, I hate the guy for the reasons that are plain and obvious, not because I need to make up things about him to fuel my hate. I’m not saying you are making them up, I’m just saying “refusing to denounce white supremacy” is not a reason to hate him.

Okay, well, dodgy internet site aside ( "Naked Teen Covered in Ranch Dressing Crashes Car After Wreaking Havoc Inside Kansas Gas Station" !! ), that was essentially a bunch of sound bites with little to no context, the majority of which were him saying I "disavow" David Duke. There were a few that contained actual pieces of conversation, but to me those appeared to be of him being backed into a corner by journalists, and we all know by now that a) Trump is a pathological liar, and b) he'll say pretty much anything to get himself backed out of whatever corner he may have painted himself into.

Further, as CharlieMortdecai has pointed out, there's been no effort by the Trump administration to tackle the problem of white supremacy. On the contrary he has teargassed peaceful BLM protests for a photo op, and condoned right-wing extremists with assault rifles crossing state lines and murdering peaceful BLM protesters.

And just for the record, I have never said that I hate Trump. Not sure why you keep saying that I have, or that I do. As I said to Joycey in a post just before my reply to you, I neither like nor hate him. It's just not important to me. He's a narcissist who deserves nothing but his own void mirrored back to him. What I do care about though is his rhetoric, which is consistently divisive, and serves to stoke the fires of various hate groups, including white supremacists.

You say you hate him, and that's fine. But are you okay with his rhetoric?

 

[King Corey]

Go Ruddy.

 

[ferball]

While I haven't read Bullshit Jobs (by Graeber), it rings true from what I've heard about it.

This is great tho. It's about money, capitalism and slavery.

Debt: The First 5000 Years. (PDF). By David Graeber.

It's probably a bit heretical for some people but I like it.

 

[Mr_Nyah]

Okay, well, dodgy internet site aside ( "Naked Teen Covered in Ranch Dressing Crashes Car After Wreaking Havoc Inside Kansas Gas Station" !! ), that was essentially a bunch of sound bites with little to no context, the majority of which were him saying I "disavow" David Duke. There were a few that contained actual pieces of conversation, but to me those appeared to be of him being backed into a corner by journalists, and we all know by now that a) Trump is a pathological liar, and b) he'll say pretty much anything to get himself backed out of whatever corner he may have painted himself into.

Further, as CharlieMortdecai has pointed out, there's been no effort by the Trump administration to tackle the problem of white supremacy. On the contrary he has teargassed peaceful BLM protests for a photo op, and condoned right-wing extremists with assault rifles crossing state lines and murdering peaceful BLM protesters.

And just for the record, I have never said that I hate Trump. Not sure why you keep saying that I have, or that I do. As I said to Joycey in a post just before my reply to you, I neither like nor hate him. It's just not important to me. He's a narcissist who deserves nothing but his own void mirrored back to him. What I do care about though is his rhetoric, which is consistently divisive, and serves to stoke the fires of various hate groups, including white supremacists.

You say you hate him, and that's fine. But are you okay with his rhetoric?

It may well be true that Trump is a pathological liar, and that he will say whatever he wants to get out of a corner. But the notion you presented was that I was wrong to say he had denounced white supremacy multiple times. I've presented the evidence, and like it or not, believe it or not, he has denounced white supremacy. Do you agree?

I won't touch on your view on the "murdering of peaceful BLM protesters". I think the way you worded that reveals your bias. Which is fine - we all have a bias. But I'd rather you own it, and own that you, let's say "strongly dislike" Trump (not "hate" ), we'll have a much more productive discussion if you can own your position. I also don't buy that Trump is just not important to you, you seem passionate about it - and that's a good thing! I think watching you post, and then hearing you say it's not important, just doesn't sound true sorry.

Read my last response to TOD and tell me whether you think I'm ok with his rhetoric

 

[ferball]

Great post and agree with what you're saying. Corporate power is one of the big issues with modern America (and indeed other modern democracies). The sooner we can get big business' dollars out of politics the better. I take the Tas Jr nickname as being positive, and not like "Dictator Dan" or "The Mango Mussolini"

It was more just a joke but a positive one for sure. It's easier to read your comments to be honest. Tas just ties things to far

Corporate power is the biggest problem societies have IMO. Too much power concentrated in too few hands and with no real accountability. But the real danger to any society is authoritarianism. You could have Jesus in charge of an authoritarian state and it would still look like ... Well every brutal state that claimed some sort of divine authority over the last 500 years or more. We've seen enough of them even in our lifetimes.

 

[koshari]

Corporate power is the biggest problem societies have IMO. Too much power concentrated in too few hands and with no real accountability. But the real danger to any society is authoritarianism. You could have Jesus in charge of an authoritarian state and it would still look like ... Well every brutal state that claimed some sort of divine authority over the last 500 years or more. We've seen enough of them even in our lifetimes.

So true but will never change, unfortunately its just how we are wires as human beings. pick any demographic, period, place and its the same. people by nature are drawn to form groups of influence and then they consolidate the power base, happens in prisons, corporate bodies, 3rd world tribes, you name it. even bodies like the lions club, sporting clubs or the CWA have the same traits by their membership. this behavior is essentially what "lord of the flies" was portraying.

 

[ferball]

So true but will never change, unfortunately its just how we are wires as human beings. pick any demographic, period, place and its the same. people by nature are drawn to form groups of influence and then they consolidate the power base, happens in prisons, corporate bodies, 3rd world tribes, you name it. even bodies like the lions club, sporting clubs or the CWA have the same traits by their membership. this behavior is essentially what "lord of the flies" was portraying.

Less than 500 years we (as in the subjects of British common law) were basically slves ourselves. Now we aren't. So that changed.

Its just a matter of managing that process instead of letting it run to seed IMO.

 

[koshari]

Less than 500 years we (as in the subjects of British common law) were basically slves ourselves. Now we aren't. So that changed.

Its just a matter of managing that process instead of letting it run to seed IMO.

Iam not saying the outcomes wont change, just that the process that determines the power base of the day/scenario is pretty much identical.

 

[Sopwiths North]

It may well be true that Trump is a pathological liar, and that he will say whatever he wants to get out of a corner. But the notion you presented was that I was wrong to say he had denounced white supremacy multiple times. I've presented the evidence, and like it or not, believe it or not, he has denounced white supremacy. Do you agree?

I won't touch on your view on the "murdering of peaceful BLM protesters". I think the way you worded that reveals your bias. Which is fine - we all have a bias. But I'd rather you own it, and own that you, let's say "strongly dislike" Trump (not "hate" ), we'll have a much more productive discussion if you can own your position. I also don't buy that Trump is just not important to you, you seem passionate about it - and that's a good thing! I think watching you post, and then hearing you say it's not important, just doesn't sound true sorry.

Read my last response to TOD and tell me whether you think I'm ok with his rhetoric

No, I don't believe he has denounced white supremacy. I believe he has given whatever answer he thinks will work at the time in order to weasel his way out of being pressured by journalists. Remember, a narcissist is only ever interested in serving himself.

And speaking of which, no, I do not hate him. Or like him. I am glad not to be him, but that's about it. I am sincere when I say that the only thing I feel inside when it comes to Trump the human being, is a giant void. He's not worth feeding anything into. So no, I don't have to "own" anything. And it's fine if you don't "buy" that - I can't make you believe me, and that's okay. But anyone who's ever had to stickhandle a narcissist in their close personal life for any great length of time will understand what I'm talking about. Trump himself isn't worth an emotional response. His rhetoric however, is. That is my position.

I did read your response to TOD. And I'm asking you whether or not you're okay with Trump's rhetoric.

 

[see see]

Where does he think this is going?

What are his other strategies if this doesn't work? Stage a sit in outside the teachers' staff room? Occupy the tuck shop? Refuse to go to morning assembly?

This is some high school standard lame sh*t from Mr Look At Me.

There's an extremely wide field to choose from, but for mine Krudd has the most punchable head in Australian politics.

 

[Snake_Baker]

What are his other strategies if this doesn't work? Stage a sit in outside the teachers' staff room? Occupy the tuck shop? Refuse to go to morning assembly?

This is some high school standard lame sh*t from Mr Look At Me.

There's an extremely wide field to choose from, but for mine Krudd has the most punchable head in Australian politics.

Royal commissions are circuses.

Murdoch would tip it on its head and come out looking better, just like Packer did before him.