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Time to move on the Bored, (not a typo)

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DaVe86 said:
I want answers to 2 questions:

1. Did our recruiting team have knowledge of the issues surrounding Dayne Beams when we offered 2 first round draft picks and a handsome contract for him? If not, should they have known??? This issue really isn't getting the media it deserves. The board and recruiting team aren't getting much heat for it.

2. Did we as a club know about the impending investigation surrounding Gubby Allan when he was brought over from GWS? The guy came in, got rid of a number of players, brought in a number of duds on high price contracts, and then was suspended and never seen again. It seems as though the decisions he made have set us back years...and Ned GUy is still trying to clean up the mess.
Click to expand...
Now they sound like questins that should be asked at an AGM.
 
DaVe86 said:
I want answers to 2 questions:

1. Did our recruiting team have knowledge of the issues surrounding Dayne Beams when we offered 2 first round draft picks and a handsome contract for him? If not, should they have known??? This issue really isn't getting the media it deserves. The board and recruiting team aren't getting much heat for it.

2. Did we as a club know about the impending investigation surrounding Gubby Allan when he was brought over from GWS? The guy came in, got rid of a number of players, brought in a number of duds on high price contracts, and then was suspended and never seen again. It seems as though the decisions he made have set us back years...and Ned GUy is still trying to clean up the mess.
Click to expand...

These questions have been asked for about 3 years now. I'm entirely sick of them. Dayne Beams admitted to being crazy when he was at brisbane. What else is there to know about it? We knew about the circumstances surrounding Allan's appointment and the risks that Eddie took.

Make a case for either sticking with or moving on the bored... This forum has discussed these issues until forever, but no one ever seems to mention the actual collingwood bored...

As for waiting on the media to do something about it....geez...the media doesnt vote the bored in. And Ed is a major player in the media so what do you expect?
 
Doc1763 said:
Now they sound like questins that should be asked at an AGM.
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Has anyone got the guts? It always seems to me that the stupid ones have got the guts to ask questions and the smart ones are too gutless to actually probe people in charge.
 
TKiL said:
when you bluster & gabble and have trouble being succinct, you're likely to miss the point

"she was actually doing it too, to lift people around her,” he said."

i.e. their substantial salaries aren't enough Ed?
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well they were working extra hard to get the ordinary plebs to work for free....and provide their own transport to do it. Ed's done some good stuff for people over the years but he has taken it upon himself to represent collingwood, probably without any consultation with anyone. He didnt have to throw her out. He could have just laid low and see what eventuated in canberra. But his mates are too important for that. So we barrack for a club that has to wear the support of this woman, because he thinks its important. And we are called a racist club, not just because of Eddie, but he has certainly been a significant factor in it. We wear this mud primarily because he thinks he embodies the collingwood supporter. He speaks for all of us, it seems.
 

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Markfs said:
These questions have been asked for about 3 years now. I'm entirely sick of them. Dayne Beams admitted to being crazy when he was at brisbane. What else is there to know about it? We knew about the circumstances surrounding Allan's appointment and the risks that Eddie took.

Make a case for either sticking with or moving on the bored... This forum has discussed these issues until forever, but no one ever seems to mention the actual collingwood bored...

As for waiting on the media to do something about it....geez...the media doesnt vote the bored in. And Ed is a major player in the media so what do you expect?
Click to expand...

With respect, I don't think these issues have been properly agitated at all. Perhaps we've been raising them here on this forum, but how much heat has the board actually copped for them??? Have we received a proper explanation?

For what it's worth, I have no problem in principal with the idea of recruiting Dayne Beams or bringing Allan to the club. In fact, I like that we were aggressive and took some risks. I want the club to continue taking risks because we are not going to win a flag with this super cautious approach that seems to have entrenched itself in our culture, from recruitment, selection, game plan and injury management.

The issue i have is that both Allan and Beams had massive red flags that should have kept us well away. If the board knew of these issues and still approved the decisions, then they are not getting enough heat put on them.

I would argue these 2 reasons have cost us a flag. The salary cap that got blown by Gubby's moves, as well as what Dayne Beams has cost us, would definitely have netted us a star player...potentially Lynch or Cameron.

I'm actually amazed at how well the club has performed in the last 3 years despite some pretty poor management.

1. We have a number of holes in our list, yet keep getting results;
2. Our injury management would be amongst the worst in the league;
3. Our recruiting has been non-existent;
4. Our cap management is horrible considering we are clearly struggling to fit everyone into the cap and can't recruit anyone of note as a result.
5. Our game-plan and ability to score is a huge problem.

We either just need to fix a few issues and we'll be unbeatable....or the good performances over the last few years have covered up for some gaping problems, and the club will drop off a cliff.
 
DaVe86 said:
With respect, I don't think these issues have been properly agitated at all. Perhaps we've been raising them here on this forum, but how much heat has the board actually copped for them??? Have we received a proper explanation?

For what it's worth, I have no problem in principal with the idea of recruiting Dayne Beams or bringing Allan to the club. In fact, I like that we were aggressive and took some risks. I want the club to continue taking risks because we are not going to win a flag with this super cautious approach that seems to have entrenched itself in our culture, from recruitment, selection, game plan and injury management.

The issue i have is that both Allan and Beams had massive red flags that should have kept us well away. If the board knew of these issues and still approved the decisions, then they are not getting enough heat put on them.

I would argue these 2 reasons have cost us a flag. The salary cap that got blown by Gubby's moves, as well as what Dayne Beams has cost us, would definitely have netted us a star player...potentially Lynch or Cameron.

I'm actually amazed at how well the club has performed in the last 3 years despite some pretty poor management.

1. We have a number of holes in our list, yet keep getting results;
2. Our injury management would be amongst the worst in the league;
3. Our recruiting has been non-existent;
4. Our cap management is horrible considering we are clearly struggling to fit everyone into the cap and can't recruit anyone of note as a result.
5. Our game-plan and ability to score is a huge problem.

We either just need to fix a few issues and we'll be unbeatable....or the good performances over the last few years have covered up for some gaping problems, and the club will drop off a cliff.
Click to expand...
A thorough examination of our club’s situation.
 
DaVe86 said:
With respect, I don't think these issues have been properly agitated at all. Perhaps we've been raising them here on this forum, but how much heat has the board actually copped for them??? Have we received a proper explanation?

For what it's worth, I have no problem in principal with the idea of recruiting Dayne Beams or bringing Allan to the club. In fact, I like that we were aggressive and took some risks. I want the club to continue taking risks because we are not going to win a flag with this super cautious approach that seems to have entrenched itself in our culture, from recruitment, selection, game plan and injury management.

The issue i have is that both Allan and Beams had massive red flags that should have kept us well away. If the board knew of these issues and still approved the decisions, then they are not getting enough heat put on them.

I would argue these 2 reasons have cost us a flag. The salary cap that got blown by Gubby's moves, as well as what Dayne Beams has cost us, would definitely have netted us a star player...potentially Lynch or Cameron.

I'm actually amazed at how well the club has performed in the last 3 years despite some pretty poor management.

1. We have a number of holes in our list, yet keep getting results;
2. Our injury management would be amongst the worst in the league;
3. Our recruiting has been non-existent;
4. Our cap management is horrible considering we are clearly struggling to fit everyone into the cap and can't recruit anyone of note as a result.
5. Our game-plan and ability to score is a huge problem.

We either just need to fix a few issues and we'll be unbeatable....or the good performances over the last few years have covered up for some gaping problems, and the club will drop off a cliff.
Click to expand...

The Board is responsible for appointing the people and letting them do the job.

Wrong decisions can be made. If Allen was appointed and only by Eddie.... then what does that say about the Board? If he was appointed by the Board after a discussion then fair enough.

These are the things that are important when determining whether the board is working properly or not.

Tenure on the board. It is a well accepted fact that there should be turnover in the board. It is good corporate governance. It was recommended in the report by Murphy. It was rejected by Eddie. This is a failure. THis is systemic failure. This is a reason to change the board....not a wrong decision.

We will never know how separate decisions have been made... it is no use to pursue it. However, certain things are evident such as the statement on Holgate today which clearly hasn't been cleared by the board.....well at least i wouldnt think so. The rest of them are so used to letting Eddie run the show that they would probably lie and say that they discussed it with Eddie.

I'm not interested in recruiting decisions here. The board shouldn't be interested either - although I think they (Eddie) puts his 2 bits in. They should be interested in the report by Walsh that explains the plan to win a premiership. The game plan etc. its not the role of the board to determine the game plan.

The reason that the club has done well is because the football dept is working reasonably in spite of the top being dysfunctional
 
DaVe86 said:
1. We have a number of holes in our list, yet keep getting results;
2. Our injury management would be amongst the worst in the league;
3. Our recruiting has been non-existent;
4. Our cap management is horrible considering we are clearly struggling to fit everyone into the cap and can't recruit anyone of note as a result.
5. Our game-plan and ability to score is a huge problem.

We either just need to fix a few issues and we'll be unbeatable....or the good performances over the last few years have covered up for some gaping problems, and the club will drop off a cliff.
Click to expand...

I dont disagree with much of what you said, but the questions should go to Geoff Walsh. He should overview the list, the game plan, the recruitment. Is he reporting back to the Board on this? They should be intelligent enough to understand his explanation. Unfortunately, I dont think a lot of the board are interested and they probably know that Eddie will take the decisions upon himself.

If thats the case, then the board should be changed....but here is the rub. The key point.... the key key key point. No one involved in the club including the membership have the guts to question Eddie about these things. Or they dont have the access. Gutless or no power or both. So we whine.

I'm pretty much sick of this thread now.
 
Markfs said:
I dont disagree with much of what you said, but the questions should go to Geoff Walsh. He should overview the list, the game plan, the recruitment. Is he reporting back to the Board on this? They should be intelligent enough to understand his explanation. Unfortunately, I dont think a lot of the board are interested and they probably know that Eddie will take the decisions upon himself.

If thats the case, then the board should be changed....but here is the rub. The key point.... the key key key point. No one involved in the club including the membership have the guts to question Eddie about these things. Or they dont have the access. Gutless or no power or both. So we whine.

I'm pretty much sick of this thread now.
Click to expand...

I think we are arguing but actually in relative agreement.

The point I'm making is that there have been some huge mistakes in recent years, yet we aren't getting accountability. Whilst the board isn't responsible for recruiting, game plan, injury management etc....they are responsible for over-seeing who is in charge of these areas...and seeking accountability if there are big mistakes. And if they aren't seeing action being taken, then they should step in.

I fear that the good results over the past few years are covering up for some really horrible decisions that have been made. Had results been poorer, then tougher questions would have been asked. I get the feeling the club is in a holding pattern. While we are competitive, we are very much in a "watch and see" frame of mind. The problem is that we need a more aggressive approach. We should be in full premiership mode right now, and we need to be really aggressive in that pursuit. I just fear we are in a holding pattern right now, and when the wheels fall off, we are going to see quite a dramatic fall. Let's hope I'm wrong.
 
DaVe86 said:
I want answers to 2 questions:

1. Did our recruiting team have knowledge of the issues surrounding Dayne Beams when we offered 2 first round draft picks and a handsome contract for him? If not, should they have known??? This issue really isn't getting the media it deserves. The board and recruiting team aren't getting much heat for it.

2. Did we as a club know about the impending investigation surrounding Gubby Allan when he was brought over from GWS? The guy came in, got rid of a number of players, brought in a number of duds on high price contracts, and then was suspended and never seen again. It seems as though the decisions he made have set us back years...and Ned GUy is still trying to clean up the mess.
Click to expand...
Hi Dave
1. An article from the Australian earlier this year....
"On September 1, 2018 Dayne Beams stood in front of the Brisbane faithful and declared his love for the club and his future within it.
That connection was the “driving factor” in him wanting to honour his contract, with Beams’ final message this: “I love you boys”.

But in the hours after that best-and-fairest second-placing the Lions reconciled themselves to his eventual departure. Beams was railing against finishing behind Dayne Zorko, adamant he was the worthy winner during a long and emotional late-night discussion with club powerbrokers.

It would take the better part of two months for Beams to eventually be traded to Collingwood, yet by the end of that night the Lions knew they would trade him if the right deal was presented.

As one Lions insider said on Tuesday, a captain who should be the most low-maintenance figure at a football club had instead become its most high maintenance.

Brisbane had reconciled themselves with trading Beams as long as Collingwood came up with a suitable deal.

Beams is now a Collingwood player in name only as his management and the club look towards a financial settlement that could still be months in the making. But to present this is a case of Collingwood bungling a $2 million deal with reckless disregard for Beams’ issues is entirely unfair too.

Collingwood were entirely aware that Beams’ mental health problems were multifaceted and borne out of more than grief for his father’s passing. The club that hired a private investigator and spoke to chief commissioner Christine Nixon about the risk profile of Ben Cousins shared the view of Brisbane’s mental health experts. That like many players in football Beams would need help and guidance to deal with mental health but could be effectively managed for the remainder of his career.

But Beams was the last deal done in trade week — half an hour to deadline — and if the Lions weren’t particularly desperate to retain Beams (having just traded for Lachie Neale) they would have absolutely done so without a quality trade.

What has become apparent is that the $2 million deal handed to Beams might be as problematic from a long-term perspective than the two first-round picks handed away for Beams.

If Collingwood cannot get salary cap relief from the AFL for Beams’ extraordinary circumstances — and why wouldn’t they at least ask — they will be on the hook for whatever they eventually settle with Beams for.

Brodie Grundy’s seven-year deal actually gives the Pies flexibility to defer some of his deal to later years.

But the Pies will only learn the fallout from Beams’ salary if Tom Phillips is tipped out or Jordan De Goey accepts a mega-deal that the Pies could have matched with that Beams cap space.

The Pies know more than anyone premierships are won and lost on fine margins, privately aware they wouldn’t have done the deal if they hadn’t been so close against West Coast.

Only time will tell whether those selections and cap space cost them the players that might have been the difference when the next opportunity comes around."

2. There were numerous articles in The Age, HS and The Australian regarding Eddie's knowledge of the AFL Investigation (Gubby had told him prior to his appointment). I can only find one reference to it.
sen.com.au/news/2016/10/24/brian-waldron-talks-on-gubby-eddie-and-bucks/
 
Markfs said:
As I said, i'm not sure you can blame eddie for all of it or whether even he is strong enough to overcome collingwood history.

If you throw a problem at someone and plead for him to fix it and then give them absolute power by allowing them to fill the board with anyone they want.... and you never take an opportunity to even have a vote for a position on the board...

....and you whine about Eddie needing to move on...

no wonder he treats us like children.

As for Richmond, at least they managed to cobble together a group of people who challenged their Board a few years ago. We have managed to get anyone to even nominate.
Click to expand...

Murphy was going to but Eddie brought him inside the tent, got his ideas, gave a role and killed it off. Everyone knows McGuire gerrymanders the election process by using the casual vacancy to deny someone a chance to put their hands up. He is a typical lefty, stacking the branch and outcome in his favour.

Pies will not flag under him. He is not a winner, ask the people at 9 about his term as CEO, the real business world chewed him up and spat him out.
 

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gouki88 said:
$300k as a salary sounds pretty bloody cushy to me, let alone as f*n expenses! C-level executives really are out of touch sometimes
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It's farcical. $1.6 million salary to slash services. What? On top of that $300,000 in expenses. What?

World gone mad. Corporate greed running rampant.
 
AgroMagro said:
It's farcical. $1.6 million salary to slash services. What? On top of that $300,000 in expenses. What?

World gone mad. Corporate greed running rampant.
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Thankful that it's being brought to light, even if it might be a bad look for the Pies in the short run, but FMD it's a farce
 

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I couldn't care less about colgate and the watches. Just did my tax, she earns substantially more in a week than my gross. Granted the beloved has been doing the heavy lifting over the last 12 months but we have never collectively earnt more than she does in a month. No need, happy as we are. This mob that has normalised insane wealth, that actually believes it has something to offer those less fortunate, that does not connect their wealth to worldwide social and environmental challenges inhabit a different reality to me.

What annoys me is Eddie has to get involved. We have a proud working class history, not a mates club. We need a president whose only words are about and for Collingwood. Even Jeff was able to bring a focus and sense of gravitas to the role. Eddie has lost connection with who supposedly represents, thinks it is all about him.
 
noideaatall said:
I couldn't care less about colgate and the watches. Just did my tax, she earns substantially more in a week than my gross. Granted the beloved has been doing the heavy lifting over the last 12 months but we have never collectively earnt more than she does in a month. No need, happy as we are. This mob that has normalised insane wealth, that actually believes it has something to offer those less fortunate, that does not connect their wealth to worldwide social and environmental challenges inhabit a different reality to me.

What annoys me is Eddie has to get involved. We have a proud working class history, not a mates club. We need a president whose only words are about and for Collingwood. Even Jeff was able to bring a focus and sense of gravitas to the role. Eddie has lost connection with who supposedly represents, thinks it is all about him.
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I agree. And the issue isnt about the guilt or innocence of Hoglate. It's about how Eddie has used his position to support a mate. His connection to her is clear. They are both on the bored of the club. He is not doing this as a happy customer of Australia Post.

And he has done in a way where he has attacked the Liberal Party. That might be fine when the club is hoping for assistance from a Labor gov't but the people in political parties have long memories. I'm not interested in the club's chief representative to be pissing off people in gov't. He has lost the distinction between his own personal interests and the club's. Did I say that he lost it? Did he ever have it?

I started another thread recently where i questioned the importance of the Pies being the biggest club. Whatever the answer, we are a large strong club. I think it would be that way without Eddie. There's a line of thinking that we would suddenly fall back into debt if Eddie was moved on. If we could find competent people, I cant see why they couldnt retain all the existing sponsors. In fact, I think a few would be happier with a less visible and divisive person at the helm. In reality, I'd be happy to see Eddie stay if he let go of the reins and shared the power, and put the club before his mates.
 
AgroMagro said:
It's farcical. $1.6 million salary to slash services. What? On top of that $300,000 in expenses. What?

World gone mad. Corporate greed running rampant.
Click to expand...

That’s a lot less than the bloke at Aus Post before her got.
 

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