Opinion Combined team- Lions 01-04, Cats 07-11, Hawks 12-15, Tigers 17-20.

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KissKiss said:
That is probably just about what I would select with some minor quibbling over positions.

I'd probably put Lappin to the wing, Aker to the flank and then one of Johnson/Chapman to the bench. And (bias acknowledged) Voss to captain, Hodge to VC. But I think arguing captaincy between those two there's nothing in it.

Richmond feels under-represented but Im not sure who I would add. Maybe Cotchin or Edwards over Selwood or Burgoyne

I feel bad for Gibson with his two bnf's but Lake's Norm Smith makes more sense to me. Similarly Houli and possibly Grimes is a little unlucky in the backline but that is an all time great backline.

Roughhead fits the second ruck role better than Brown (who wasnt his best until a few years later), Reiwoldt also unlucky but Gunston I think has a better finals record.
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Can't argue with the Lappin/Aker/Chapman moves, as long as all three of them stay in the team.
Same with the Hodge/Voss preference - its really just who you prefer of the two.

Richmond has been a great team over recent years, but their strength has been their even spread rather than reliance on 'stars' like the Lions/Cats/Hawks teams.

Riewoldt is probably the closest to going in, but I think Gunston has performed better.
Cotchin is just a step down from all of the other mids listed.
Same with Edwards vs the other options available. That being said if was going to consider another pure wingman I'd personally take Isaac Smith over Edwards (yes, Hawks bias).

Gibson was the one I really wanted to fit in but he can't displace Lake/Scarlett/Leppitsch. A lot of people have Grimes in their team, but I would have him 5th on the list after these 4.
 
Sirlemsip said:
Can't argue with the Lappin/Aker/Chapman moves, as long as all three of them stay in the team.
Same with the Hodge/Voss preference - its really just who you prefer of the two.

Richmond has been a great team over recent years, but their strength has been their even spread rather than reliance on 'stars' like the Lions/Cats/Hawks teams.

Riewoldt is probably the closest to going in, but I think Gunston has performed better.
Cotchin is just a step down from all of the other mids listed.
Same with Edwards vs the other options available. That being said if was going to consider another pure wingman I'd personally take Isaac Smith over Edwards (yes, Hawks bias).

Gibson was the one I really wanted to fit in but he can't displace Lake/Scarlett/Leppitsch. A lot of people have Grimes in their team, but I would have him 5th on the list after these 4.
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I really tried to fit Gibson in, I know he can play tall but you wouldn't need him to with Lake, Scarlett and Grimes so then it comes down to replacing a genuine small defender in Johnson with him, or putting him in over Hodge and Enright. I had him on my bench but then remembered I needed to fit Gunston in somewhere so Josh was the one that made way for Jack in my team. If I was to put Gibson in, it would be for Chris Johnson.
 
Hot Diggity said:
View attachment 996085

Correct. 1982-1991:

5 flags
3 R/U
1 Prelim

1 x B2B
2 x record margins in GF
Lose our greatest player end of 85 and then win 3 of the next 4.
Greatest spine in history
Click to expand...

It's not like Matthews was in his prime when you lost him. You lost him because he was old and retired, it's not like, for instance, losing Ablett in his prime, despite the fact that Geelong won the flag the year after he left.

How far back to we go though? Carlton who won 3 in 4 years, or 4 in 9 years if you stretch it out to 1987.

How about Richmond with 4 in 8 years?

How about Melbourne with 5 flags in 6 years and runners-up in the one they missed. They were also runners-up the year before the 3peat so in 7 years they finished 1st five times and 2nd 2 times.

Collingwood 6 in 10 years, a 4peat plus b2b. They were runners-up in the 2 seasons immediately prior to their 4peat.
 

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Herne Hill Hammer said:
I really tried to fit Gibson in, I know he can play tall but you wouldn't need him to with Lake, Scarlett and Grimes so then it comes down to replacing a genuine small defender in Johnson with him, or putting him in over Hodge and Enright. I had him on my bench but then remembered I needed to fit Gunston in somewhere so Josh was the one that made way for Jack in my team. If I was to put Gibson in, it would be for Chris Johnson.
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Grimes still has time in his career to show more, but to date i don't think you can pick him over Leppitsch who was AA three times (twice in premiership years).
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
It's not like Matthews was in his prime when you lost him. You lost him because he was old and retired, it's not like, for instance, losing Ablett in his prime, despite the fact that Geelong won the flag the year after he left.

How far back to we go though? Carlton who won 3 in 4 years, or 4 in 9 years if you stretch it out to 1987.

How about Richmond with 4 in 8 years?

How about Melbourne with 5 flags in 6 years and runners-up in the one they missed. They were also runners-up the year before the 3peat so in 7 years they finished 1st five times and 2nd 2 times.

Collingwood 6 in 10 years, a 4peat plus b2b. They were runners-up in the 2 seasons immediately prior to their 4peat.
Click to expand...
Herne Hill Hammer said:
It's not like Matthews was in his prime when you lost him. You lost him because he was old and retired, it's not like, for instance, losing Ablett in his prime, despite the fact that Geelong won the flag the year after he left.

How far back to we go though? Carlton who won 3 in 4 years, or 4 in 9 years if you stretch it out to 1987.

How about Richmond with 4 in 8 years?

How about Melbourne with 5 flags in 6 years and runners-up in the one they missed. They were also runners-up the year before the 3peat so in 7 years they finished 1st five times and 2nd 2 times.

Collingwood 6 in 10 years, a 4peat plus b2b. They were runners-up in the 2 seasons immediately prior to their 4peat.
Click to expand...
An old and ****ed Leigh Matthews is still better than 95% of the players out there.

He kicked 6 in our 83 GF win, 4 in our 84 GF loss, and got us home in the 85 Prelim to put us in the GF. Also enabled Dunstall to have a season getting his head around how to play footy. I bet if you asked Sheedy and Essendon who he feared the most in those GFs it would have been Matthews, Dipper and Brereton. Matthews could turn it on anywhere and at any time if you gave him the chance.

You'r spot on when it comes to "How far back do we go" - I could have Hawthorn 74-91 for example.
 
PhatBoy said:
Again if this is being decided based on how they performed in finals Ottens waltzes in. He wasn’t all australian level during his time at the Cats (he made one AA side at Richmond) but his finals level was as good as any ruckman I can recall.
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As starting ruck, Ottens is the pick of the bunch. Also very capable resting forward

Hale was the prototype 2nd ruck / key forward, which are almost rarer than good rucks. Rowan Marshall probably the only decent one running around at the moment

If Ottens and Hale has ever played in the same team it’d have been a nightmare
 
Hot Diggity said:
An old and f’ed Leigh Matthews is still better than 95% of the players out there.

He kicked 6 in our 83 GF win, 4 in our 84 GF loss, and got us home in the 85 Prelim to put us in the GF. Also enabled Dunstall to have a season getting his head around how to play footy. I bet if you asked Sheedy and Essendon who he feared the most in those GFs it would have been Matthews, Dipper and Brereton. Matthews could turn it on anywhere and at any time if you gave him the chance.

You'r spot on when it comes to "How far back do we go" - I could have Hawthorn 74-91 for example.
Click to expand...

If I asked Sheedy in 1985 would I have asked him before or after the 2nd semi final that they won by 40 points with 15 more scoring shots or before or after the grand final that they won by 78 points with 18 more scoring shots? Or maybe after the two earlier h&a games that beat Hawthorn in that season.

Why would you go back to 1974, a year in which Richmond d North Melbourne for the flag?
 
OffTheBit said:
A mixture of Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn players plus Dustin Martin. It shows how weak the AFL has been recently that this list has won 3 flags
Click to expand...
The only thing weak is your thinking.

A team that wins 3 premierships, makes a prelim in the other year and has record consecutive wins at the MCG- but no its not good enough for you?

Ill provide 5 players that could make the team other than dusty.

Edwards is one of the best link players going around, You need to understand the game really well to notice his ability to get other players into the game.
Rance, enough said.
Houli. absolutely gave us great run and grunt. His importance should never be downplayed.
Grimes, super fast and gives great run and nullifies players. No nonsense footballer.
Vlaustin - another super player, absolutely important to our structure (when he went down we were all F@@k. that was a big loss)

I could go on. but that enough for now.
 
Vassp said:
The only thing weak is your thinking.

A team that wins 3 premierships, makes a prelim in the other year and has record consecutive wins at the MCG- but no its not good enough for you?

Ill provide 5 players that could make the team other than dusty.

Edwards is one of the best link players going around, You need to understand the game really well to notice his ability to get other players into the game.
Rance, enough said.
Houli. absolutely gave us great run and grunt. His importance should never be downplayed.
Grimes, super fast and gives great run and nullifies players. No nonsense footballer.
Vlaustin - another super player, absolutely important to our structure (when he went down we were all F@@k. that was a big loss)

I could go on. but that enough for now.
Click to expand...

Four of the ones you listed are defenders and one of them doesn't fit the criteria of the OP (Rance).

Who do Houli, Grimes and Vlaustin take the place of? Hodge, Enright, Scarlett, Lake (I personally had Grimes in my side)
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
Four of the ones you listed are defenders and one of them doesn't fit the criteria of the OP (Rance).

Who do Houli, Grimes and Vlaustin take the place of? Hodge, Enright, Scarlett, Lake (I personally had Grimes in my side)
Click to expand...

My response was directed to that posters idiotic post who wanted to take a pot shot at a 3x premiership side ETC....

But to answer your question...

With these teams its always a lottery on who to pick. Depending on the match ups of who this imaginary team will be up against.

And more importantly its all going to come down to team balance and what are required to work the TEAM GAME PLAN. not so simple now......

So, you may need more feeders like Edwards, or grunt players, or speed ETC. cant have the same type of players.

Team may need a Rance.
Edwards could be that feeder.
Houli could be that running back.
Vlaustin could be that general intercept player if required.


Richmond Team just proved something, that you can have roll players that mix better than superstars.
Case in point is id rather have Edwards then Danger, or Vlaustin than Danger. Better fit for our team.

Ps I did not read his criteria. lol
 
Herne Hill Hammer said:
If I asked Sheedy in 1985 would I have asked him before or after the 2nd semi final that they won by 40 points with 15 more scoring shots or before or after the grand final that they won by 78 points with 18 more scoring shots? Or maybe after the two earlier h&a games that beat Hawthorn in that season.

Why would you go back to 1974, a year in which Richmond d North Melbourne for the flag?
Click to expand...
Because our record from then was:
Herne Hill Hammer said:
If I asked Sheedy in 1985 would I have asked him before or after the 2nd semi final that they won by 40 points with 15 more scoring shots or before or after the grand final that they won by 78 points with 18 more scoring shots? Or maybe after the two earlier h&a games that beat Hawthorn in that season.

Why would you go back to 1974, a year in which Richmond d North Melbourne for the flag?
Click to expand...
Firstly, you obviously have no idea of how good Matthews was. The fact he still turned it on the week before the GF with Essendon would have given Sheedy food for thought. He also missed the second H&A game.

Secondly, I agreed with you question of how far back do we go? Between 1974-1991 Hawthorn won 7 flags, was RU 4 times, and made 3 prelims when there was only one prelim to make. Of course, sandwiched in all of this was 79-81 where we missed the finals. Nevertheless, that's a ridiculous record and the envy of any side. The reason why there's so much debate about what constitutes a dynasty is the fact there's no offical benchmark.

So, I can only guess your belligerent tone is triggered by the fact we are a) discussing Hawthorn, and b) Matthews is a key part of this conversation.
 

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Hot Diggity said:
View attachment 996085

Correct. 1982-1991:

5 flags
3 R/U
1 Prelim

1 x B2B
2 x record margins in GF
Lose our greatest player end of 85 and then win 3 of the next 4.
Greatest spine in history
Click to expand...
Amazing team.

We’ll never see that much talent on one list again, given salary cap, draft.
I wonder how their wage bill compared to their rivals. Not to denigrate, just to understand.
 
Moggy said:
Actually was not being sarcastic.
I know that all the big teams of that era were way outside the current boundaries.
Click to expand...
Fair enough!

Yeah, it was phenomenal watching us in the 80s, especially the back half of the decade - we just expected to be there. Took it all for granted and by 1996 we were just about gone.
 
Moggy said:
Great thread!
Really enjoying seeing supporters arguing for the inclusion of champs from other teams in the 22.

And great to reminisce about the fantastic players in those champion teams
Click to expand...
Agreed. Still think Geelong 07-11 slightly underrated - at its best would match any side. Guns all over the place.
 
AndyD said:
I think at their primes, Richmond would be lucky to get within 50 points of all of those sides, much for the reasons you mentioned. The game style Richmond employs relies very little on individual skill and entirely on pressure and scragging off the ball. The scragging puts the umpires in the position of having to slow down the game by calling 50 free kicks against, or just pay the super egregious ones. The game then gets reduced down to who can force the ball closer to their goal and make the most of their shots at goal and less on individual talent. That is why Martin (and to a lesser degree Cotchin) stand out so much, because their is very little stand out talent in the side, which highlights the ones that do.

On topic, I would think that Martin would be the only player that would fit into a combined side, and even then most likely on the bench (especially if you expand the criteria to include the 08 Hawks team which brings someone like Crawford into play). And that’s even when classifying players like Aker/Lappin as flank/pockets and not midfielders. At his prime, I don’t think Martin beats out Voss, Black, Ablett, Selwood, Mitchell, Hodge (or Crawford) at their primes for a spot in the midfield. As a small/mid sized forward, Chapman, Stevie J, Gunston, Aker (personally would have him in the forward line in this hypothetical because the backline would be so stacked) would all be ahead of him. I have no idea how anybody would want a current Richmond player to replace any one of Mal Michael, Justin Leppitsch, the Scott’s, Scarlett, Engright, Taylor, Lake, Burgoyne, Croad (again if including the 2008 Hawks), Gibson.

Maybe if Bevo was coach of this side he’d have Dusty in the ruck because that’s the weakest side, but a combo of Ottens/Hale would do decent against pretty much any other team over the same time period. That’s about 26 players I’ve mentioned, without worrying about Key Forwards like Franklin, Lynch & Hawkins. Outside of Gunston, I would have a hard time having Dustin Martin in my team ahead of anybody I’ve named above. This is not to say that Martin is undeserving of the awards that he has won because he is clearly not. But I think anybody who saw them play would take Voss/Black etc over him


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
dimma has you all confused
 
Sirlemsip said:
Can't argue with the Lappin/Aker/Chapman moves, as long as all three of them stay in the team.
Same with the Hodge/Voss preference - its really just who you prefer of the two.

Richmond has been a great team over recent years, but their strength has been their even spread rather than reliance on 'stars' like the Lions/Cats/Hawks teams.

Riewoldt is probably the closest to going in, but I think Gunston has performed better.
Cotchin is just a step down from all of the other mids listed.
Same with Edwards vs the other options available. That being said if was going to consider another pure wingman I'd personally take Isaac Smith over Edwards (yes, Hawks bias).

Gibson was the one I really wanted to fit in but he can't displace Lake/Scarlett/Leppitsch. A lot of people have Grimes in their team, but I would have him 5th on the list after these 4.
Click to expand...
Voss and Hodge as the Captain and VC - that's frightening.
 
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