Greg williams is the goat prove me wrong
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- Jul 13, 2015
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GAJ just as a solo player was brilliant. The difference is the on and off field leadership. Mitchell dominated the counter attacks and movement off the half back both through his own play and setting up the team. Hodge too. They lifted the entire team.
Williams was a phenomenal footballer too. I dont remember his leadership but perhaps it wasnt needed at Carlton with such great players.
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GOAT is a ridiculous concept. Skilton, Bunton and Stewart could all have claims on that, but it’s all semantics.
Best 5 midfielders I’ve seen:
Williams
Black
Harvey
Ablett Jnr
Judd
I’ve haven’t included blokes like Martin, Kouta, Hird, Fyfe, as they could play anywhere and still be awesome.
Best 5 midfielders I’ve seen:
Williams
Black
Harvey
Ablett Jnr
Judd
I’ve haven’t included blokes like Martin, Kouta, Hird, Fyfe, as they could play anywhere and still be awesome.
- Jun 22, 2008
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He was only GOAT at Geelong and Sydney. Carlton, after rejecting him twice for being too fat and too slow only got him because they had to cheat to do it.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Yep, cost us '89 and '92, imo.
The bloke was a freak, loved watching him play.
My best seen in no particular order :
Ablett Snr
Carey
Matthews
Lockett
Dunstal
Williams
Ablett Jnr
- Jun 22, 2008
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$5k is the most common I've heard. Goggin didn't want McGuiness so he went to Footscray.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Centreline wing and centre. Midfield ruck, ruck rover and rover. Keith Greig and Robbie Flower aren't spoken of as two of the best midfielders ever, they're spoken of as two of the best wingmen ever.
Scarlett and Doull were both defenders. One generally played on the full back line and the other on the half back line.
What are you even rabbitting on about?
Pocket Terrace
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Agree. In a thread of best wingmen ever, fully expect to see Matera and Bradley, not Williams and Harvey. Different conversation.
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Piss off Tulip and Greig arent spoken of as the best midfielders. Just stop with the rubbish.
Nowadays we say inside midfielders and outside midfielders. Just concede the point. Youre both wrong.
Pocket Terrace
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One of my favourite pub conversations is greatest wingmen. I could discuss it for hours. But it’s a different conversation to greatest midfielders.
Similarly, greatest ruckmen. You don’t hear Polly Farmer or John Nicholls mentioned in greatest midfielder conversations.
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Yep, because you are discussing a position and not their grouping. Ruckmen are unique because they have a unique role. What about ruck/rovers?
Who are the greatest centremen of all time? Williams? Daicos?
- Jun 22, 2008
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That's what I posted, are you stupid?
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Are you? Tulip is regarded as one of the greats. Particularly as a wingman, which is positional. In conversations about greatest midfielders he is always in the discussion as it it is a broader net. Just stop with your nonsense.
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Should have added 3 more and made it a top 10 in no particular order.
Then add Judd Buddy and one more
- Jun 22, 2008
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Should have added 3 more and made it a top 10 in no particular order.
Then add Judd Buddy and one more
Actually my top 8, if I throw Hudson in is pretty clear cut for me, the next 2 would be the tough ones. Judd and Buddy in the conversation.
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Ah youre a true oldie. I never got to see Hudson play.
He finished just as I started watching.
- Jun 22, 2008
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I have never heard Flower or Greig or Peter Matera, in my 50+ years, once mentioned in any conversations about the greatest midfielders, only wingmen.
- Jun 22, 2008
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I saw both his games live in '77 against Geelong when he destroyed us with his fat arse and freakish ability. That and the highest goal per average game in the history of the VFL / AFL is enough for him to be in for me.
Apart from his first year, every other full season that he played he kicked 100+ including his last season with Hawthorn in '77 when he hadn't played at that level for 3 years and was over 30 years old and playing on mud heaps.
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And being punched in the head 6 times a week by Full Backs who simply werent good enough to beat him 1 on 1 without cheating.
GAS had the right solution.
"Touch me again and I will deck you."
Only needed to do it once for Full Backs to learn to play properly after given their 1 and only warning.
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Because they were that bloody good at their position.
Let me help you. Who is the greatest rover of all time? Is it Haydn Bunton Sn? Gary Ablett Jr? What about Barry Cable?
Its a more nuanced conversation because the mug punters dont understand the role. Its easier to lump the onballers as midfielders and just take the conversation from there. Wings are different and have an easier, more distinguishable role. Centremen get confused as onballers and get lumped in with the onballers.
I return to my point of Doull. Is he not classed as a backman because he plays on the flank? Any conversation you have had about Doull in your 50 plus years would have have been about him being one of the greatest HBFers to have been seen. It rarely goes more general than that. Once you can pigeon hole someone, most generally do.
- Jun 22, 2008
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Doull is in both conversations, best hbf along with the likes of Kevin Murray and more recently Enright, but also in the conversation about best defenders. Murray has never been in that conversation that I've heard or seen and Enright isn't. Defensive convos tend to be, who is the best fb, who is the best chb, who is the best hbf, never hear much about bp unless you're picking a best of team, but only a very select few are ever in the conversation with best ever defender. That conversation tends to be reserved for fullbacks, Dench, Southby, Kel Moore, Silvagni, Scarlett, Lake and Rance but Doull in my circles is always in the convo. and Fletcher gets thrown in as a general purpose defender by Essendon supporters (I was a big fan of his too)
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Right. We're making progress. When we talk about the onballers whats the difference between a rover and a ruck/rover? Where does the centreman come into play? Or the wingmen? They are all midfielders. Yes, even the ruckman but they are a different beast because they have a whole special contest just for them.
We say Tulip and Matera are two of the greatest wingmen of all time because we can. We can also say Bunton Snr and Cable are two of the greatest rovers of all time. Theyre all still midfielders. But opening up from the positional to the more general grouping of midfield lets other players into the conversation.
Just like we were talking about the backmen.
Luke Hodge is the best player ever.
quotemokc
Brownlow Medallist
His name doe not stand out nor is it interesting therefore he is not the goat.
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