Club Focus Collingwood 2020 - Henry, Macrae, McInnes, Poulter, McMahon, McCreery

[Lore]

Data from footywire. To check the draft order (updated weekly) see the thread here.

 

[Scratchy05]

My honest opinion is that it just depends how much morale is affected. If the players aren't fussed about the changes, we will be fine. Just depends if it bothers them or not

 

[B4Bear]

Call me delusional but Phillips wasn't best 22. Stephenson had a bad year and Treloar is declining. THink what you want. My opinion is that we have done well to pull ourselves out of this hole we admittedly put ourselves in.

So all the Pies fans wailing about ‘the best youngster we have had in over a decade’ are wrong?

 

[Scratchy05]

So all the Pies fans wailing about ‘the best youngster we have had in over a decade’ are wrong?

That is the one move I am annoyed about. We weren't compensated well at all for his departure but if the stripper rumour is true, I think we made the right call. Plenty of people were saying he wasn't best 22 come end of the season either and he played like a fringe player so once again, while I think North Melbourne did well to steal him off us for that value, I can still live with it. We have other youth anyway who may not be as good but is serviceable

 

[perplexed]

Where's Ed?

 

[B4Bear]

That is the one move I am annoyed about. We weren't compensated well at all for his departure but if the stripper rumour is true, I think we made the right call. Plenty of people were saying he wasn't best 22 come end of the season either and he played like a fringe player so once again, while I think North Melbourne did well to steal him off us for that value, I can still live with it. We have other youth anyway who may not be as good but is serviceable

Trust me, speaking from experience, ‘serviceable’ doesn’t get it done.
North just de-listed 11 ‘serviceable’ players after 20 years of mediocrity.

 

[Shadow89]

For those few trying to justify the club's moves, this is how their trade period ended up going:

Collingwood trade period:

OUT: Treloar, Phillips, Stephenson, Bosenavulagi, Pick 26, Pick 33, Pick 39, Pick 42
IN: Pick 14, Pick 65, Pick 70, Future 2nd

I genuinely can't see how one can positively spin that. Good on the few supporters who it hasn't upset, but that is just an absolute one way reaming - no matter how you look at it.

 

[Scratchy05]

Trust me, speaking from experience, ‘serviceabl’ doesn’t get it done.
North just de-listed 11 ‘serviceable’ players after 20 years of mediocrity.

I don't know what people were expecting we do. We were over the cap. We had to make moves. Treloar, Stephenson and Phillips were an eeasy 3 to cull where we could save 1.6 million but not lose that much from a best 22 standpoint, if we get worse at all which I don't think we do as Howe comes back in and he is our bes player IMO. Yes, more value would've been nice but we didn't have a lot of leverage as we needed to off-load players.

You know what happens if we don't off-load players. De Goey walks for free as we can't pay him (He is better than all 3) and we are likely still over the cap. Due to being over the cap, we are likely stripped of future draft picks which inhibits our ability to get Nick Daicos next year and Home and Away poins ruling out finals.

What people need to realise is that the issue wasn't this trade period. We had to make these moves for the sake of the salary cap. The issue is previous list management which has forced us to make these moves. I think we did quite well all things considering. We gained an extra pick to help with Daicos next year and we may get 2 players in before we draft Reef McInnes.

 

[Scratchy05]

For those few trying to justify the club's moves, this is how their trade period ended up going:

Collingwood trade period:

OUT: Treloar, Phillips, Stephenson, Bosenavulagi, Pick 26, Pick 33, Pick 39, Pick 42
IN: Pick 14, Pick 65, Pick 70, Future 2nd

I genuinely can't see how one can positively spin that. Good on the few supporters who it hasn't upset, but that is just an absolute one way reaming - no matter how you look at it.

We literally couldn't get better value as we had no leverage.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Lol Ned Guy on Foxfooty sounds like he has absolutely no idea.

What a lying effing embarrassment of a bloke.

Turfing out three quality players and a heap of picks for a paltry drifting pick 14 in a mess of a draft and pretending it's list progress. Who is the REAL architect of this list mangling?

 

[Shadow89]

We literally couldn't get better value as we had no leverage.

That's fair enough, but you have to ask, why did the club let it get to that stage? Why was the cap so badly mismanaged? How can players be resigned for 5 years and 3 years respectively, and still be asked to leave - because the club doesn't want them/can't afford them.

This isn't some veteran who is getting moved on...this is a mid in his prime, and a former Rising Star winner who had a down year but was only Pick 6 just two years ago.

It's not right, it's just a complete mess. I'm not gonna dig the boot in any further, because you guys have more than enough to deal with - but heads need to roll over this, as culture can get really messed up over these sort of things. No matter who you get in, if the playing group gets unsettled, more players will leave year after year - see Adelaide and GC as recent examples.

 

[BG__]

For those few trying to justify the club's moves, this is how their trade period ended up going:

Collingwood trade period:

OUT: Treloar, Phillips, Stephenson, Bosenavulagi, Pick 26, Pick 33, Pick 39, Pick 42
IN: Pick 14, Pick 65, Pick 70, Future 2nd

I genuinely can't see how one can positively spin that. Good on the few supporters who it hasn't upset, but that is just an absolute one way reaming - no matter how you look at it.

I love how he kept saying they made those moves to get into the first round of the draft to grab great talent like they'd bagged themselves a few top 10 selections in a super draft.

Probably could have packaged just 26/33/39/42 together and moved up to that pick 14 lol

 

[Scratchy05]

That's fair enough, but you have to ask, why did the club let it get to that stage? Why was the cap so badly mismanaged? How can players be resigned for 5 years and 3 years respectively, and still be asked to leave - because the club doesn't want them/can't afford them.

This isn't some veteran who is getting moved on...this is a mid in his prime, and a former Rising Star winner who had a down year but was only Pick 6 just two years ago.

It's not right, it's just a complete mess. I'm not gonna dig the boot in any further, because you guys have more than enough to deal with - but heads need to roll over this, as culture can get really messed up over these sort of things. No matter who you get in, if the playing group gets unsettled, more players will leave year after year - see Adelaide and GC as recent examples.

Yeah see that is the issue. Mistakes in 2018 and 2019 have caused this to happen but all things considering, I still think this wasn't a terrible result. Players had to be moved on for cap reasons and if we have to rebuild, then so be it. We made mistakes over the past 2 years and we have to live with them now but I feel we did well all things considered.

 

[Dangerousfield]

I've changed my opinion in the space of one day. Am I the only one who thinks we have done well? I personally see no change in our best 22, we lose Treloar who is injury prone and seems to be on the decline and on a bad contract. Phillips was questionable best 22 (I personally rated him very high, other Pies fans didn't) and Stephenson (this one I'm slightly annoyed about) who wasn't good at all this year and looked a shell of his former self. Obviously, I would've hoped for better value from all of them but we needed cap space and did what we had to do. I genuinely see 0 change to our performance next year, if anything we may do better. My only issue is if this affects team morale but a few early wins should fix that up anyway.

Best 22 next year
B: Howe/Roughead/Maynard
HB: Crisp/Moore/Quaynor
R: Grundy/De Goey/Pendles
C: Daicos/Adams/Sidebottom
HF: C.Brown/Cameron/Mihocek
F: Ruscoe/Cox/Elliott
int: Noble/Sier/T.Brown/Kelly
E: Magden/Mayne/WHE/Thomas

I genuinely believe we will finish higher than 8th next season. Happy with what the club has done.

Edit: I think the issue was past management, I think we have done well to fix our past issues in this period but with better management, we wouldn't have been in this position but I genuinely think we did well with the situation we were in.

Edit 2: I really hope all the players we traded out do well. Keen to see how they develop.

Is that you Eddie? Scratchy05 you just have to be a club plant if you're "happy" with that nuclear option of list management

 

[Shadow89]

Yeah see that is the issue. Mistakes in 2018 and 2019 have caused this to happen but all things considering, I still think this wasn't a terrible result. Players had to be moved on for cap reasons and if we have to rebuild, then so be it. We made mistakes over the past 2 years and we have to live with them now but I feel we did well all things considered.

Mmm I wouldn't say you did well at all - from a culture and playing group perspective - but hopefully for the sake of Collingwood fans, it's not going to be as bad as we're all making out.

With that said, that Stephenson interview was pretty confronting. Can only imagine if Treloar has his say too.

 

[Scratchy05]

Is that you Eddie? Scratchy05 you just have to be a club plant if you're "happy" with that nuclear option of list management

People don't realise but we were F**ked regardless. We made bad moves in the past which have came back to bite us but I feel we have done well enough with removing very replaceable players who have injury/attitude concerns. I've made my points very clear in recent posts. Yes, compensation wasn't great, yes it hurts to lose them but we had to lose them. Otherwise, we breach the salary cap and that is even worse for the club. We did well all things considered

 

[Dangerousfield]

Call me delusional but Phillips wasn't best 22. Stephenson had a bad year and Treloar is declining. THink what you want. My opinion is that we have done well to pull ourselves out of this hole we admittedly put ourselves in.

Ah Scratchy, I see you only joined BF in mid September, clearly you are a club insider trying to gloss over this disaster. Mods should ban you before you spew forth any more of the club's official line!

 

[Scratchy05]

Mmm I wouldn't say you did well at all - from a culture and playing group perspective - but hopefully for the sake of Collingwood fans, it's not going to be as bad as we're all making out.

With that said, that Stephenson interview was pretty confronting. Can only imagine if Treloar has his say too.

Buckley needs to pull a 2018 and get all the players to buy back in. How he does that, I don't know but if he can pull it off and save morale, we will be the better for it. This makes or breaks his career next season.

 

[Scratchy05]

Ah Scratchy, I see you only joined BF in mid September, clearly you are a club insider trying to gloss over this disaster. Mods should ban you before you spew forth any more of the club's official line!

Cheers mate, some great input from you here. Really adding heaps to the conversation with this great intellect.

 

[Dangerousfield]

Where's Ed?

Writing soothing posts on here as recently joined BF Scratchy05 !

 

[Marcel Proust]

After the Collingwood consistently compared the lies first pick to Treloar. Stevo. Etc.

Who do you think the pies will target at 14 to give some fresh bite to the list?

Might be a lot of pressure. Big shoes

 

[Scratchy05]

My last comment on this thread. Ned Guys interview was a disaster. There is no hiding it was a fire sale. A necessary one, yes but it was a fire sale. JUst own up to it as it was the best we could've done.

 

[Northernsoul74]

I’d love to know what Treloar did so wrong to be told by Buckley he’d be returning to a toxic environment.
Pretty sure the answer is absolutely nothing. Questions should be asked of Buckley and the leadership group.

 

[Ant_]

Gee wtf happened there? Total * up of their list management to get into a fire sale situation like that. What Stephenson and Sam Darley

Sam Darley

Age

31

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.1

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

MG

305.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.4

4star

K

10.4

4star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.8

5star

have said publically they did a s**t house job of managing the exit of their players as well.

For all my schadenfreude over Dunkley. Essendon still have 3 top 10 draft picks, wtf does Collingwood have?

 

[Tugofawar]

Eddie can’t be happy

 

[banzai]

I’d love to know what Treloar did so wrong to be told by Buckley he’d be returning to a toxic environment.
Pretty sure the answer is absolutely nothing. Questions should be asked of Buckley and the leadership group.

You don't know how accurate everything said is. Clearly Collingwood got into all sorts of problems with the cap, and had to decide which players were overpaid the most and try to force them out. They probably should have just explained that from the start as its not like they were ever going to get value for these players anyway as everyone else seemed to know they had to move players on.