Australian Rules State of Origin Football.
I understand your sentiment however 'the best v best' brings out something special & Aussie Rules kicked the concept off.
Lets see whether the game is willing to take anything from the 2020 season in terms of fixturing, breaks between games & travel. We dont know what 2021 will look like yet.
Lets hear what the TV dollars are 'saying'.
Remembering there was nothing special about the Eagles squads of the 80s, when they had squads of less than 40 whilst everyone else had 50+. When that spurious decision was corrected the Eagles had the kids available that had won the U18 comp with Worsfold available & used picks in the 80s+ to pick up the likes of Heady & Norm Smith Medallist Dean Kemp.
When these guys were winning for the Eagles & as the likes of Buckenara retired, Origin died in WA.
telsor
Hall of Famer
I'm not suggesting there was anything untoward. Fact of the matter was, WCE had a much higher proportion of SOO players than other clubs. The how's and why's don't matter to this conversation so much as that this was a reason for WCE's strong opposition to SOO, which was a significant factor in what killed it off..
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- Jul 22, 2013
- 18,818
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- AFL Club
- Carlton
The ability of some West Australians to use anything at all to add to the chip on their shoulder is at times quite astounding.
List size had nothing to do with restraining the ability of the Eagles to draft players. It was entirely to do with "everyone else" having to field two teams out of their list. (The preference to use the WAFL as a whole as the Eagles reserves came out of WA, just in case you might be tempted to see a different conspiracy.)
The exclusive access to top juniors (and everybody else in WA) you refer to was available to the Eagles commencing November 1986 and for years after. It's not as if there wasn't any room for them, because the foundation list was disgraceful. (Feel free to blame evil Victorians for that part. We pillaged WA in the lead up years.) They were sitting there ready to be picked time of the Eagles choice. Nobody else was permitted to draft them.
A few years back I read all the fine print around recruitment in the Eagles' early years. Tick off the players who were acquired under draft concessions and the Eagles' first premiership selected team had 15 players in it that no other Club had been permitted to draft. The second premiership team total was 16 players (due to a change to the selected side).
As for that 1989 draft? There was a lot of chat at the time that it stank to high heaven, and that a list of names was sent east with a draft them and they will not come message.
Eagles ended up having an amazing set of concessions. They used those exceedingly well, and if you were to suggest that the VFL most likely did not intend to be that generous I would not argue too hard.
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Said the condescending Carlton supporter.
- Jul 22, 2013
- 18,818
- 27,477
- AFL Club
- Carlton
That's not very nice.
Broad brush overlooks the detail, relevant detail as to why Origin died in WA.
- Jul 22, 2013
- 18,818
- 27,477
- AFL Club
- Carlton
Because nobody in Victoria cared?
- May 23, 2016
- 713
- 836
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Port Melbourne; Kalkee; Horsham Demons
The state leagues still do it, or at least they used to.
I'm afraid the concept is dead as far as the AFL is concerned, because logistically Victoria must be involved and the state that doesn't play them gets all pissy and complains, so they invented the All Stars which literally everyone hates.
These topics come up every year around League SSO time and it's just not happening, it's as dead as the place kick and Lake Oval.
I'm afraid the concept is dead as far as the AFL is concerned, because logistically Victoria must be involved and the state that doesn't play them gets all pissy and complains, so they invented the All Stars which literally everyone hates.
These topics come up every year around League SSO time and it's just not happening, it's as dead as the place kick and Lake Oval.
Playing for your state used to be special - now these kids play shitloads of u16 and u18 games for their state before being drafted. Can't image it's anything for them to get too excited about any more.
How about this format
Section A
1st vs 4th
2nd vs 3rd
Final
Winner 1st/4th vs winner 2nd/3rd
Bronze
Loser 1st/4th vs loser 2nd/3rd
Section B
same as above
Section C
PNG vs NZ (home and away)
Then qualify/regelation matches
Loser Section A vs Winner section B
Loser Section B vs Winner section C
Because in the 1st year the comp no teams have played the previous year to be ranked. 2021 would probably look like this:
Section A
Victoria vs Tasmania
South Australia vs Western Australia
Section B
NSW vs ACT
Queensland vs Nothern Territory
Section A
1st vs 4th
2nd vs 3rd
Final
Winner 1st/4th vs winner 2nd/3rd
Bronze
Loser 1st/4th vs loser 2nd/3rd
Section B
same as above
Section C
PNG vs NZ (home and away)
Then qualify/regelation matches
Loser Section A vs Winner section B
Loser Section B vs Winner section C
Because in the 1st year the comp no teams have played the previous year to be ranked. 2021 would probably look like this:
Section A
Victoria vs Tasmania
South Australia vs Western Australia
Section B
NSW vs ACT
Queensland vs Nothern Territory
I thought i read somewhere that this week’s SOO was lowest ever tv ratings.
What killed my interest was WA not playing Victoria. For the last few years, it was this format, and we just happened to get the opposite for years in a row. Honestly, no-one cares about the allies, and SA vs WA is only marginally better.
Apart from the clubs not being willing to release players, getting a format that allows for genuine states and decent match-ups is difficult.
Especially if Vic half the audience, and therefore would need to have a match every week. Having a 2nd v 3rd playoff to then play 1st doesn't really work if Vic is seeded 1st.
A four team first division means a fairly lopsided game between 4th (probably NSW atm) and any of the "big three" - the vast bulk of the time at least. Or the disgraceful "Allies" to bolster the stocks of a 4th team; that alienates NSW,Qld,Tas,NT,ACT in the same way that "All-Stars" *s all over WA and SA.
And no broadcaster/streamer is going to want to show Division 2 games, probably not even if one of the big three somehow got relegated.
Especially if Vic half the audience, and therefore would need to have a match every week. Having a 2nd v 3rd playoff to then play 1st doesn't really work if Vic is seeded 1st.
A four team first division means a fairly lopsided game between 4th (probably NSW atm) and any of the "big three" - the vast bulk of the time at least. Or the disgraceful "Allies" to bolster the stocks of a 4th team; that alienates NSW,Qld,Tas,NT,ACT in the same way that "All-Stars" *s all over WA and SA.
And no broadcaster/streamer is going to want to show Division 2 games, probably not even if one of the big three somehow got relegated.
WA and SA have been playing each other for 100 years. The games were a highlight of the season for me in the 70s and early 80s
There seems to be a false belief amongst a lot of footy fans that the non-traditional footy states couldn't possibly compete with the 'Big 3' in Aussie rules state footy but it's really not the case these days. New South Wales would be a highly competitive team in 2020:
New South Wales 2020 State Team
B: Dane Rampe (Syd) Dougal Howard (StK) Zac Williams (Car)
HB: Matt Suckling (WB) Phil Davis (GWS) Callum Mills (Syd)
C: Isaac Smith (Gee) Jacob Hopper (GWS) Harry Perryman (GWS)
HF: Nick Blakey (Syd) Taylor Walker (Ade) Harrison Himmelberg (GWS)
F: Luke Breust (Haw) Tom Hawkins (Gee) Josh Bruce (WB)
Fol: Jarrod Witts (GC) Jack Steele (StK) Isaac Heeney (Syd)
IC: Tom Green (GWS) Harry Cunningham (Syd) Jeremy Finlayson (GWS) Michael Gibbons (Car)
That NSW team would be very competitive against South Australia and you could definitely make the argument that they would beat the current South Australian state team. Queensland are also much stronger these days with genuine big name players at their disposal in Charlie Dixon, Harris Andrews, Charlie Cameron, Eric Hipwood, Dayne Zorko etc.
Maybe the naysayers will wake up one day soon and realise the non-traditional footy states are catching up to a traditional state like South Australia at a fast rate and perhaps we'll see a proper state carnival one of these days.
New South Wales 2020 State Team
B: Dane Rampe (Syd) Dougal Howard (StK) Zac Williams (Car)
HB: Matt Suckling (WB) Phil Davis (GWS) Callum Mills (Syd)
C: Isaac Smith (Gee) Jacob Hopper (GWS) Harry Perryman (GWS)
HF: Nick Blakey (Syd) Taylor Walker (Ade) Harrison Himmelberg (GWS)
F: Luke Breust (Haw) Tom Hawkins (Gee) Josh Bruce (WB)
Fol: Jarrod Witts (GC) Jack Steele (StK) Isaac Heeney (Syd)
IC: Tom Green (GWS) Harry Cunningham (Syd) Jeremy Finlayson (GWS) Michael Gibbons (Car)
That NSW team would be very competitive against South Australia and you could definitely make the argument that they would beat the current South Australian state team. Queensland are also much stronger these days with genuine big name players at their disposal in Charlie Dixon, Harris Andrews, Charlie Cameron, Eric Hipwood, Dayne Zorko etc.
Maybe the naysayers will wake up one day soon and realise the non-traditional footy states are catching up to a traditional state like South Australia at a fast rate and perhaps we'll see a proper state carnival one of these days.
chiwigi
I’ll make tears from your Wines.
Well that’s a stretch, it’s not as if there haven’t been county championships and state championships in other sports etc. League had the internationals instead, which is basically the same concept.
City v Country in league was also played regularly before State of Origin.
The rugby league ‘War of the Roses’ between Lancashire and Yorkshire has been going since 1895!
Let it be a thing of the past. I don’t know about others but when it comes to Football I have absolutely no affinity for “South Australia”. I have my club and that’s all I’ll ever need. Be surprised if most didn’t feel that way.
You've lost me, Aussie Rules interState footy has been as going as long as the game:
Australian rules football matches between teams representing Australian colonies, states and territories have been held since 1879. For most of the 20th century, the absence of a national club competition and international matches meant that football games between state representative teams were regarded with great importance.
Until 1976, interstate Australian rules football games were played by teams representing the major football leagues or organisations. From 1977 to 1999, players were generally selected under State of Origin selection rules and they were chosen mostly from the Australian Football League (AFL). Since 2000, all matches have been between teams representing the second-tier state or territorial leagues. Players from the AFL no longer take part in interstate matches.
The matches have mostly been held on a stand-alone basis. However, an Australian Football Carnival, a national championship series, held in either one or two cities, took place between 1908 and 1993, usually at three-year intervals. Teams which have taken part have included Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia, Tasmania, New South Wales, Queensland, Northern Territory, Australian Capital Territory and Amateurs. Between 1937 and 1988 the player judged the best at each of these carnivals was awarded the Tassie Medal.
Until 1976, interstate Australian rules football games were played by teams representing the major football leagues or organisations. From 1977 to 1999, players were generally selected under State of Origin selection rules and they were chosen mostly from the Australian Football League (AFL). Since 2000, all matches have been between teams representing the second-tier state or territorial leagues. Players from the AFL no longer take part in interstate matches.
Between 1953 and 1988, the selection of All Australian Teams was based on the player's performance during Australian Football Carnivals, and the team was named after each carnival concluded.
State of Origin does have a place for three reasons.
First is we never get to see the best players perform our game - with 18 teams, the quality is so diluted.
Second - there is already a history there and all the U18’s come up having played state footy.
Third - there is still state pride and many of our state’s best players end up making their name for a club interstate. Bring them home for one game a year.
How does it work? Just make it one game a year (in May or June) but have the game meaning something.
Vic, WA, SA and Allies - 4 teams. For the first year, it would be fair to say Vic vs WA would be the two strongest squads, so they play to be crowned Champions of Australia. SA vs Allies in the other game.
The two winners play the following year for the trophy, the two losers play for the right to compete for the trophy the following year.
One game per year, every year. Rotate venues.
First is we never get to see the best players perform our game - with 18 teams, the quality is so diluted.
Second - there is already a history there and all the U18’s come up having played state footy.
Third - there is still state pride and many of our state’s best players end up making their name for a club interstate. Bring them home for one game a year.
How does it work? Just make it one game a year (in May or June) but have the game meaning something.
Vic, WA, SA and Allies - 4 teams. For the first year, it would be fair to say Vic vs WA would be the two strongest squads, so they play to be crowned Champions of Australia. SA vs Allies in the other game.
The two winners play the following year for the trophy, the two losers play for the right to compete for the trophy the following year.
One game per year, every year. Rotate venues.
This is the reason we dont have an ongoing Origin series, putting the NT, Q, NSW, ACT & Tas into a 'the rest' basket will never survive. These are growth markets, insulting them isnt a good idea.
- Thread starter
- #74
The so called 2nd tear states should be kept as separate teams. But I don't see why we persist with keeping the ACT separate from NSW. The Rugy codes don't seem to do that when they have their state of origin games.
I'd suggest a knock out comp to find the top two teams, then play a best of 3 games like the NRL.
The women should be playing state of origin too.
I'd suggest a knock out comp to find the top two teams, then play a best of 3 games like the NRL.
The women should be playing state of origin too.
Very glad I went to that game given how the rest of the year turned out
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