hawkman
Hall of Famer
It would be interesting if Geelong got to pick 6 and there is a draftee they wanted but didn't think they could get, would they really want to use that pick on Cameron
Traded Jeremy Cameron [traded w/ 2x 2021 R2 (ESS/GWS) to Geelong for #13, #15, #20 and 2021 R4]
- Thread starter Buzzasto DaSilva
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I know you're bitter but surprise surprise you left off half the deal as per usual. In a better draft the Giants will have given up two very high second round picks.LOL its so funny reading Cats posters on here post trade.
All of a sudden three 1sts isnt bad. Pre trade "no way do we pay that".
Well its pretty bloody terrible when initially you all smug thinking he would be free.
GWS use two of those to trade into the top 10 and end up with a top 10 pick and another 1st for Cameron.
Ended up paying more than Kelly which is right on the money.
Plus had to turf out Fogerty and burn that 2nd round pick in the process.
Don't change Cats fans.
Well done GWS, you made history, stood your ground and got paid fair market rates.
Yep Geelong burned that pick 13 (~16) 100% and traded backwards on the next pick what 10-12 spots max in a better draft. The 3rd leg of the multi is actually advantage Geel.
Geez 1.5 ordinary first round draft picks for Cameron. How will we ever recover.
We'll enjoy Cooper Stephens, Jeremy Cameron, Cam Taheny, Josh Jenkins and the Giants future 2nd round pick from our Tim Kelly haul.
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- Feb 12, 2017
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Not all first round draft picks are created equally. Not even a single crack inside the top ten, one of them legitimately in the 20s, and that's before draft night blows them out even further. A big headline win for GWS, which I think was arguably the most important thing here, while we're pretty well stocked for next years draft now with 1x1st and 3x2nd. Also managed to snare Cameron. 
it was a bit of an attempt to save face imo. They wanted to stand by their original posturing of 3 first round picks or players line. Which they did in the end at the expense of cutting off their nose.
I always thought we were going to end up handing them picks 13 + 15 and 20 and only receive like a future third rounder in return or something like that because GWS Seemed adamant he is worth tim kelly value. We didn’t pay anywhere near tim kelly value.
picks (15-18) (18-22) and (22-26) in this weak draft we gave them and got back in return two second rounders in next years very strong draft which looks likely to be around picks 24-34 range depending on ladder positions.
gives us 3x second round picks in next years draft plus 2 third rounders and our first pick still.
will be alot of quality kids who didn’t get picked this year due to lack of exposure floating around next year making them very good picks to use. I’m a lot more excited for our hand next year due to GWS stance which got them in the end
Not all first round draft picks are created equally. Not even a single crack inside the top ten, one of them legitimately in the 20s, and that's before draft night blows them out even further. A big headline win for GWS, which I think was arguably the most important thing here, while we're pretty well stocked for next years draft now with 1x1st and 3x2nd. Also managed to snare Cameron.
let’s be honest two of them were also likely not even first round picks after academies and NGA. Just swapping around second rounders this year for next year so GWS can technically get what they asked for and save face
- Feb 12, 2017
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First round in name only. I guess that's how it works these days with FA compo and still to be academy bids in-draft, but it's a bit rich to call pick 20 a 1st round isn't it? Apparently Wells in his interview expects that to blow out to 25 come draft night - still technically the first round, but sheesh.
LOL its so funny reading Cats posters on here post trade.
All of a sudden three 1sts isnt bad. Pre trade "no way do we pay that".
Well its pretty bloody terrible when initially you all smug thinking he would be free.
GWS use two of those to trade into the top 10 and end up with a top 10 pick and another 1st for Cameron.
Ended up paying more than Kelly which is right on the money.
Plus had to turf out Fogerty and burn that 2nd round pick in the process.
Don't change Cats fans.
Well done GWS, you made history, stood your ground and got paid fair market rates.
what trade were you reading about?? It was basically Cameron for pick 13 before it slides, then a pick exchange of 15 before it slides out to 18-20 and 20 before it slides out to 24-26 for two future second rounders in a much stronger draft. Very happy we did that and it was just the only way GWS could save face on their asking price of our three picks, by handing us better picks for a stronger draft next year.
sorry WCE couldn’t do the same for kelly and we just took the farm and left you no seeds to plant with
What an absolute load of garbage. If anything it goes the other way. Teams don't pick academy players where they should go. Most times you haven't done the research on them b/c there is little point and they slide back to a point where its just too difficult to ignore them. Some clubs dont want to bid b/c they dont want the player they will get to feel like a second choice. Sometimes they have done little nods and winks. Guys like Blakey etc went way lower than they should.
I can guarantee next year clubs will be picking the best 20 players without fear or favour.
Just to clear up some misinformation, and I really don't plan on getting into it with others as trade period is done and dusted, this is from the horse's mouth - Stephen Wells:
“We were never going to give up 3 first round picks for Jeremy alone. We always understood that wed have to give up probably 2, so we accepted that.
“Once it became clear that the Giants were keen on the third first round pick, we looked at a deal that would help them and help us.
“To have those two second round picks and give us a chance in next year’s draft is something we’re very happy with.”
It is understood Geelong had the option of retaining pick 20, but believed that selection could be marked down to about 25 by draft night.
Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool
**************************
Basically as Wells stated this morning, the original deal was 13 & 15 with a Future 2nd (GWS) coming back. GWS wanted our Pick 20 this year, so we gave them that in exchange for Essendon's Future 2nd (this is why the deal couldn't be done until the Caldwell deal went through - right at the end).
In isolation they were two separate deals, but GWS got the 'line in the sand' optics they wanted, we got the player and future picks we wanted, and the media got the headlines and narrative they wanted. Everyone got something in the end.
Basically, Deal 1 (separate from Caldwell) was this:
GWS OUT: Cameron, Future 2nd (GWS)
GWS IN: Pick 13,15, Future 4th (Geelong)
And Deal 2 was this:
GWS OUT: Future 2nd (Essendon)
GWS IN: Pick 20
I'm sure some will agree, and some will call me delusional, but as it stands now we're either winners, or we're pushovers - which means we're not the 'awful extortionist hypocritical club', that we were labelled before and during trade period.
Either way, I'm happy, as I thought we'd be giving up 13, 15 & a Future 2nd, with a Future 3rd coming back. We ended up doing better than that in the end.
Have at me
“We were never going to give up 3 first round picks for Jeremy alone. We always understood that wed have to give up probably 2, so we accepted that.
“Once it became clear that the Giants were keen on the third first round pick, we looked at a deal that would help them and help us.
“To have those two second round picks and give us a chance in next year’s draft is something we’re very happy with.”
It is understood Geelong had the option of retaining pick 20, but believed that selection could be marked down to about 25 by draft night.
Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool
**************************
Basically as Wells stated this morning, the original deal was 13 & 15 with a Future 2nd (GWS) coming back. GWS wanted our Pick 20 this year, so we gave them that in exchange for Essendon's Future 2nd (this is why the deal couldn't be done until the Caldwell deal went through - right at the end).
In isolation they were two separate deals, but GWS got the 'line in the sand' optics they wanted, we got the player and future picks we wanted, and the media got the headlines and narrative they wanted. Everyone got something in the end.
Basically, Deal 1 (separate from Caldwell) was this:
GWS OUT: Cameron, Future 2nd (GWS)
GWS IN: Pick 13,15, Future 4th (Geelong)
And Deal 2 was this:
GWS OUT: Future 2nd (Essendon)
GWS IN: Pick 20
I'm sure some will agree, and some will call me delusional, but as it stands now we're either winners, or we're pushovers - which means we're not the 'awful extortionist hypocritical club', that we were labelled before and during trade period.
Either way, I'm happy, as I thought we'd be giving up 13, 15 & a Future 2nd, with a Future 3rd coming back. We ended up doing better than that in the end.
Have at me
brutus76
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- Jul 26, 2016
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It's less about the picks but the players you take with them that determine if it's a bust or not.
Port 2018 draft hit 3 homers
Crows 2018 draft prob 2 or 3 strikes.
Let's revisit in 3 or 4 years.
Port 2018 draft hit 3 homers
Crows 2018 draft prob 2 or 3 strikes.
Let's revisit in 3 or 4 years.
Just to clear up some misinformation, and I really don't plan on getting into it with others as trade period is done and dusted, this is from the horse's mouth - Stephen Wells:
“We were never going to give up 3 first round picks for Jeremy alone. We always understood that wed have to give up probably 2, so we accepted that.
“Once it became clear that the Giants were keen on the third first round pick, we looked at a deal that would help them and help us.
“To have those two second round picks and give us a chance in next year’s draft is something we’re very happy with.”
It is understood Geelong had the option of retaining pick 20, but believed that selection could be marked down to about 25 by draft night.
Instead, the Cats chose to package it with the other two first round picks and take back two future second round selections to be used in next year’s draft when there is far greater clarity around the talent pool
**************************
Basically as Wells stated this morning, the original deal was 13 & 15 with a Future 2nd (GWS) coming back. GWS wanted our Pick 20 this year, so we gave them that in exchange for Essendon's Future 2nd (this is why the deal couldn't be done until the Caldwell deal went through - right at the end).
In isolation they were two separate deals, but GWS got the 'line in the sand' optics they wanted, we got the player and future picks we wanted, and the media got the headlines and narrative they wanted. Everyone got something in the end.
Basically, Deal 1 (separate from Caldwell) was this:
GWS OUT: Cameron, Future 2nd (GWS)
GWS IN: Pick 13,15, Future 4th (Geelong)
And Deal 2 was this:
GWS OUT: Future 2nd (Essendon)
GWS IN: Pick 20
I'm sure some will agree, and some will call me delusional, but as it stands now we're either winners, or we're pushovers - which means we're not the 'awful extortionist hypocritical club', that we were labelled before and during trade period.
Either way, I'm happy, as I thought we'd be giving up 13, 15 & a Future 2nd, with a Future 3rd coming back. We ended up doing better than that in the end.
Have at me
Amazing deal for geelong and it seems GWS feels happy about it also?? Not sure as they dont really have many fans.
From a geelong perspective i am over the moon and very excited to have a great hand in a strong draft next season and will be following it closely
I dont think we actuall gave up that much at all when you factor how far those picks slide this year and the two second rounders coming back in a much stronger draft next year. Very happy with the outcome.
owen87
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- Apr 23, 2016
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Next years draft should run deep, it was already talked up as a draft with depth, but you'll have a number of Victorian guys from this draft that won't have had a chance in their U18 year to play, and with the reduced list sizes there'll be less than usual drafted as well.
on balllers are replacable as the group can take up the slack,you know nothing
- May 28, 2017
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3 x 1st rounders. Wow just wow. For a washed up forward with his best years behind him.
No youth coming through here
No youth coming through here
- Oct 12, 2016
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Pick 10 was coming from thin air, instead we have raided your draft hand helping kill off your future whilst you go all guns blazing with Dads Army to buy a flag.
Killing off our future by taking pick 20 + 26 in a weak covid draft off our hands and giving us two early second round picks in a strong draft next year is ” killing off” our future?? Sounds like your angry we got the better end of the stick on this one.
Venture over to the geelong board, we are all very happy with the deal and alot actually prefer those picks period. I definitely do. Absolute steal.
This has come from wells himself also, that initially it was going to just be 13-18 + 15-20 with the second rounder coming back, but wells actually himself wanted to package in pick 20-26 into the deal for tge other future second rounder as its prefered.
Was alot of face saving by GWS because theh trapped themselves into a corner over the ”3 picks or bust” line and geelong took advantage of it.
Wells is a much more experienced and i say with as much respecr as possible.. But also a much better list manager. This will probably be a great learning and reflection period for the GWS hierarchy and list management team on how to handle these situations in the future better.
And equally about whether we win a flag with Cameron. If we win the 2021 flag by definition the trade has been a success for us. If not, then probably a failure as the picks could have revitalised our ageing list.
Compare the Pear. The actual output of the trade
Patrick Dangerfield went for 9 + 27 + Gore
Jeremy Cameron will go for 16 + a 10-12 pick slide into a better draft
Yet somehow BF and the media think they have done a good job. Embarrassing. I remember when Adel were getting pats on the back for screwing the cats in 2015. Now their little crow bots carry a mental scaring so deep that many need professional help.
Patrick Dangerfield went for 9 + 27 + Gore
Jeremy Cameron will go for 16 + a 10-12 pick slide into a better draft
Yet somehow BF and the media think they have done a good job. Embarrassing. I remember when Adel were getting pats on the back for screwing the cats in 2015. Now their little crow bots carry a mental scaring so deep that many need professional help.
You know, the trade in itself wasn't necessarily bad.
We're just enjoying the end results of a great number of Geelong supporters being exceedingly arrogant about only giving 1 pick, or walking Cameron to the draft to take him for nothing. Now there just a ridiculous amount of backpedalling from those statements to try to claim that they 'won' the trade.
You guys are backflipping so fast backwards from your original statements of what the trade would be that you could compete in gymnastics in the Olympics...
CatToTheFuture
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- Aug 18, 2018
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Yeah I think the picks outside the 13 + 15 are pretty even. The call will be whether 13 and 15 were worth Cameron
CatToTheFuture
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If you go to our board the prediction poll at the top has been consistent at to two firsts for Cameron since before we even made an offer. As usual the online debate is hijacked by extremists at either end
Well that's what the majority are exposed to on the non-club boards lol.
With the trade that was made, what would the outcome be if Cameron was replaced with compensation pick 10? Ie:
Cameron + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4
Compared to
10 + FR2 + FR2 for 13 + 15 + 20 + FR4
So for those that know fair deals in these trades...if you look at the 2nd method, would that be a fair trade?
I truly believed from the beginning, GWS should have taken the compensation pick 10 then do a swap with Geelong. With this, all Geelong have lost really is pick 10.
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CatToTheFuture
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I think the real thing that matching cost them was Hately. They didn't have enough time to work out a deal or enough trade options at the table and they could have had both. They could have had 11 + 13 + 15 and probably kept a future second while we retain 20 and we rattle that fr2 out of Adelaide instead of gws. The only party worse off would be Adelaide
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