List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread - Part III

[Mowman]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


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People have been say this about them for a few years now

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


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They will at some point. Monumental. But for me they’re still a strong flag chance next year

 

[gringo2011]

No doubt Treloar was a steal and the Dogs would be rapt at getting him for SFA with a subsidised contract to boot.

It may be a simplistic way of looking at it but I view the trade period like this -

We have lost nobody from our best 22 this year (even best 24 if you like). We have gained Crouch and Higgins who should be best 22. We've retained our first round draft pick and upgraded Abbott to McKernan as a back up. So in simple terms our best line up will be two players better off than this year when we finished top 6.

The Bulldogs lost no one from their best 22. They gained an A grade mid for peanuts pick wise. However, the midfield is an area where they are already very strong. Stefan Martin

8

Stefan Martin

Age

37

Ht

198cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

8.0

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

23.5

5star

D

6.4

1star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

18.4

5star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.6

4star

HO

1.0

4star

is a warrior but at the end of his days. They should get decent service for a season or two tops. Hannan is a bit of an unknown. I doubt you could claim him as best 22 at this stage.

So improvement wise they are plus two (three if you're generous) in terms of their best 22. It's hardly a decisive edge and not reason to break out the champagne. Also those claim retaining Dunkley as a "Trade win" don't get it. Anyone can say no to a trade request for a contracted player if they want to. Just ask Dodoro. Look how that turned out for them !

Geelong is the interesting one. Beaten grand finalists who have added 3 best 22 players to their list (Cameron, Higgins and Smith). However, they have lost Ablett and Taylor from their best 22. Added to that is the loss of their mega pick package they got for Kelly. So they have a net gain of one player to their best 22, although it does seem more than that when you assess the particular players involved.

So overall I think we did as well as anyone in the trade period and are well positioned to draft another good kid or two this year. We are also well placed to go big again next trade period. Well done to the Dogs for getting Treloar but I think the media are overrating their overall performance.

Bulldogs really did well getting a ruck. They looked really poor with English in the middle. They really didn't need a midfielder though and it makes it hard to see how they play them all now. Ross was s**t for us played out of position and you can throw out balances. I like Ports top ups too, another replacement KPB and fantasia who is a good player when he's on. Geelong a bit hard to know yet, all look great but the age of them is a worry to me.

Collingwood shouldn't be any worse but lose depth and their psychological stuff might hit hard. WC got a free hit at a good player for nothing. Melbourne picked for needs and should improve, Hawks will be worse short term, Carlton did well and GWS and Essendon will be less badly off than it looks on paper. Brisbane have gone hugely risky but very high reward.

 

[SaintersUnite]

People have been say this about them for a few years now

They have you are right, but the difference is that they had the assets to get more players in to top up.

This year they’ve made the mistake of using all their assets on Cameron, now they have nothing left but their team. It’ll only be down from here.


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[gringo2011]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It's throwing all it all in. They have bet the house on black. It will either be an act of bravery and brilliance or one of the great acts of self harm ever committed by a club. It's not often that you substantially change the playing list and get immediate gelling. We made it look easy and started a trend but being in a hub might have accelerated the bonding and in a normal year it's not going to work.

 

[gringo2011]

People have been say this about them for a few years now

I certainly have. I've been willing it to be true.

 

[CursingFijian]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


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I just can’t wait to play them in Round 14 next year.

 

[goodie23]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


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This was said about Sydney for a few years. Then they fell off the cliff.

 

[gringo2011]

I just can’t wait to play them in Round 14 next year.

To me that will be the measure of our improvement. They made us look stupid, to me they were the best side we played this year. We looked like we had no answers and anything we did do just looked futile. If we can beat them we have come along way. Crouch will help there, just another inside bull to spread the load will be huge. We couldn't touch the ball out middle. Collingwood did a number on us too.

 

[Diehard Saint]

People have been say this about them for a few years now

As we did about the Hawks and Swans and the cliff finally got them.

Still, I can’t see the Cats winning the flag. There are young, hungry teams like Lions, Port and us chasing big time and the Tigers aren’t going anywhere in a hurry.

 

[hayes]

I’d be staggered if the system Geelong came up with this year doesn’t eventually win them a flag. They had a dynasty in Richmond on the ropes both in the prelim last year and the GF this year but ultimately let it slip. Probably the only team that can get in their way.

 

[Veer Right]

Hamstring problems aside I think Treloar is an overpaid frontrunning squib which is probably why we didn't chase him.

We already have on overpaid frontrunning squib in Hill so we went for a couple of working class tradies in Crouch and Higgins.

If you had a plumbing problem that needed to be fixed you would be at ease if Crouch turned up with his plumbing assistant Higgins.

If Treloar or Hill turned up to fix your plumbing you would be like "we're f***ed".

Spot on.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Technically Polynesians, they were Hawaiians that speared him not Maori.

OK we know it was actually CursingFijian after he found out Cook was a Collingwood supporter.

 

[StFly]

What's the current cap?

CBA runs for 5 years, you'll see it if you download the PDF from the AFL, excerpt below;


COVID of course screwed this horribly in actually paying people, but that's the max, and since 2019 you'll note it's been a consistent 260k increase. roughly, almost double 17-18, 18-19.

I included the ASA's as well, since additional for say frolicking with paper bags and headbutting aluminum.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

It's throwing all it all in. They have bet the house on black. It will either be an act of bravery and brilliance or one of the great acts of self harm ever committed by a club. It's not often that you substantially change the playing list and get immediate gelling. We made it look easy and started a trend but being in a hub might have accelerated the bonding and in a normal year it's not going to work.

Wry insightful Gringo.

 

[Roddy Grant]

Am I the only one that thinks Geelong will be worse next year? Think they’re going in the completely wrong direction with their trading. They’re going for the now but the last two years have shown that they’re past it when it comes to the big occasion.

In two years they’ll have arguably the biggest fall from grace in modern footy history.


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I’m picturing a very similar year to this year for them. They’ll be up in the top 4 or thereabouts and probably go quite deep into finals but can’t see them winning it.

The cliff is coming, just not as fast as most of us want.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I'll weigh in to the Treloar deal by saying that it will end poorly for both the dogs and the filth.

Neither will win a premiership whilst AT is active, and the only winner is AT, who will have earned over 7 million dollaroonies by the age of 32. Well done to him.

 

[hangdog]

Quite incredible how Collingwood fans continue to drink the Eddie & Bucks Cool aid.

Kool aid? I'd rather go a refreshing Flaming O

 

[Simple Jack]

I’d be staggered if the system Geelong came up with this year doesn’t eventually win them a flag. They had a dynasty in Richmond on the ropes both in the prelim last year and the GF this year but ultimately let it slip. Probably the only team that can get in their way.

Geelong got very lucky this year with a shortened season and shortened games.

Come next year I fully expect all of their retirees to be cooked when finals rolls around and s**t the bed as usual (in the last 5 or so years).

It's a long season (normally) to get through as an older player.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I’d be staggered if the system Geelong came up with this year doesn’t eventually win them a flag. They had a dynasty in Richmond on the ropes both in the prelim last year and the GF this year but ultimately let it slip. Probably the only team that can get in their way.

Errrr .... hello .... we match up on the Tigers very well

Just a few things didnt go our way in the Semi with players out and the green tide against us all night

Reckon we will have their measure next season

 

[PostmanBish]

To me that will be the measure of our improvement. They made us look stupid, to me they were the best side we played this year. We looked like we had no answers and anything we did do just looked futile. If we can beat them we have come along way. Crouch will help there, just another inside bull to spread the load will be huge. We couldn't touch the ball out middle. Collingwood did a number on us too.

I don't think it was just us that Geelong had good games against ... they did Port by 60 a week after doing us by 59. Brisbane by 40, Collingwood by 68 in finals. They're a team clinging to their glory days for all they are worth, and can still turn on a top-notch performance 2 games out of 3 (but it's that 3rd game that kills them ... the losses to Collingwood, Carlton, GWS, and dropping their bundle against port in the QF, before finishing off with their second loss to Richmond)

As I recall, we ended up going into that Geelong game after what amounted to a 3.5 day break, with a 1600+ game experience deficit and a 3.5 year average age gap. For all the talk of their kids being "up and about" they absolutely loaded up with experience. 13 sub-50-gamers for us, compared to their 5. 5 200+ for them, and a big fat zero for us.

The thing with experienced players, is it's like a well drilled orchestra - they don't need to train extensively in a short break (if at all) - they can just show up and be the Berlin Philharmonic. We had a late change as well, I think (Phillips for Ross?) which didn't exactly help. We fought hard for the first 1.5 quarters, but you could tell we were losing any run we had before halftime, and they were all over us in the 3rd, when we had our worst "traffic cone" period of 2020.

Not downplaying that Geelong pantsed us - they absolutely did - but a large part of why and how they pantsed us was being able to put that experience out there, and we'll be vulnerable to that for another season or so, until our youngsters gain that 30-40 games and couple of kilos that see them able to match it with the big boys consistently.

Hopefully by the time we play them in 2021, we've had a chance to amalgamate this off-season's changes, and we can run the Geelong Retirement Village off it's legs ...

 

[GTrains Love Child]

Has there been any more word on Frawley?
Personally think it’d be a good move for us and would love to see it happen.

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

We should spend this year in Dunkley’s ear.

Adding treloar makes it’s more likely someone leaves that midfield, and I get the sense Dunkley would be perfect for us and I can’t imagine he’s as red hot on the bombers now.

 

[Ducky Tie]

We should spend this year in Dunkley’s ear.

Adding treloar makes it’s more likely someone leaves that midfield, and I get the sense Dunkley would be perfect for us and I can’t imagine he’s as red hot on the bombers now.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Dunkley. Unless the dogs have a significant restructure to their midfield, it's hard to see how he'll get enough midfield time to have a year at his best. His value will probably never be higher than it was this year. The dogs were big on only letting him go for two first round draft picks, but the conversation around first round/second round can be a bit disingenuous. The offer of pick 7 and a future second rounder (roughly 22-26 assuming Essendon goes similarly to this year) is a better hand than two picks in the mid to late teens for example. If Dunkley does want to leave next year again and chooses a good club, instead of Essendon, there's a fair chance that even with two first round draft picks, the offer wouldn't be as good as the one they got this year. Dodoro cops a lot of criticism - mostly justified - but the Dunkley offer was a reasonable one I thought. There aren't many players that are worth pick 7 plus another first rounder.

 

[KingsRansom]

So, had a dinner with the family last night for the first time in months. Had a few beers with the neices squeeze who works in player management. A few interesting things came out.
Higgins had agreed to be a saint months ago apparently. Crouch as well, the drug bust really got us over the line with ratten ringing him up saying that it was ok and that mistakes happen. Real father figure.

Billings was offered a huge contract by essendon, didnt even look at it apparently. Says he is staying at the saints long term. They will be working on a deal for an extension after the cap is sorted and has is under no illusions that it will be significantly less than last time, has no issues with that.

Dunstan was shopped around, but no one wanted to take his contract on. Same with webster. Both happy at the saints as well and are looking forward to smashing it next year. Ready know its an uphill battle and have been having their own starts to pre season already apparently.

Lonie was nearly at the dogs, then treloar happened. Unsure if he will sign the contract in front of him or look to be delisted. Carlton only had interest through PSD in him.

Also reckons Gags is the best in the business with list management, surprised as how little he has been in the role. Absolutely magnificent back house apparently.

The biggest one was not even about a player, it was about Lethlean. The AFL apparently approached him to head up a department in future planning. Told them a strict no, saints have given him a fresh start and he owes it to them to be here for the long haul. Incredibly happy in the environment here. Has been approached by numerous other clubs the last couple of years and they have been told the same thing.

We will have satan for a long time yet.