Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

Which dynasty is the greatest?


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PJays

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A 10 second summary of the arguments for each team:

Hawthorn:


They backed up twice.


Brisbane:

They backed up twice.

They travelled.


Geelong:

They were written off, they lost the best player in the comp, then they rose again and played one of the best seasons ever.

They played better opponents.

They were more dominant over their opposition- in home & away and finals. They won by more. They did it more easily.

They swept all 3 premierships.

They won more games overall.
 

Roby

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A 10 second summary of the arguments for each team:

Hawthorn:


They backed up twice.


Brisbane:

They backed up twice.

They travelled.


Geelong:

They were written off, they lost the best player in the comp, then they rose again and played one of the best seasons ever.

They played better opponents.

They were more dominant over their opposition- in home & away and finals. They won by more. They did it more easily.

They swept all 3 premierships.

They won more games overall.


Hawks didn't lose the best player in the comp?

Played better opponents? Subjective. I say Geelong played flashed in the pan teams.

Geelong won more easily? Nope. Apart from thee 2007 Grand Final they were down in the third quarter of the other two. Hawthorn apart from the 08 Grand Final were they were down by a point in the first quarter, led at every change in all of their four premierships.

Yep Geelong won more games overall that is the only thing it appears Geelong have done better than Hawthorn but ultimately a meaningless stat come Grand Final, ergo, 2008.
 
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May 5, 2016
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Hawks didn't lose the best player in the comp?

Played better opponents? Subjective. I say Geelong and played flashed in the pan teams.

Geelong won more easily? Nope. Apart from thee 2007 Grand Final they were down in the third quarter of the other two. Hawthorn apart from the 08 Grand Final were they were down by a point in the first quarter, led at every change in all of their four premierships.

Yep Geelong won more games overall that is the only thing it appears Geelong have done better than Hawthorn but ultimately a meaningless stat come Grand Final, ergo, 2008.


Sorry but flash in the pan doesnā€™t apply when the flash hasnā€™t ended yet

Great point though st kilda completely disappeared after 2009
 

Roby

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Is 15-20 points with an hour to play game over or not.

Depends who is the team up and the margin. It was an average, in some games it was higher.

Three goals is a lot, i'm not sure the exact stats but I know been up by four goals generally means you around 95% games. I think three goals would be around 80-85%. In 2013, Hawthorn only lost 1 of 15 games when up in the first quarter (round 1 against Geelong, understandable). Same thing happened in finals.
 

Roby

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Sorry but flash in the pan doesnā€™t apply when the flash hasnā€™t ended yet

Great point though st kilda completely disappeared after 2009

St Kilda had TWO very good years. Flash in the pan. Same as Collingwood.
 
I didn't say that. You said organisations. It's often the word owed with the Spurs.

But no would suggest they were a better team than the Warriors.
Pretty much everyone would? Do you even follow the NBA? 5 chips > 3
 

Pessimistic

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What makes you think that once Geelong of 2011 were home most weeks, they didn't cruise as well but were simply that much better than their opposition that they still put more points on them?

They started slow occasionally. they also had an average half-time differential of +22.5 - for context Hawthorn had an average differential after 1 quarter in 2013 of +9.3.
Hawthorn had an average differential at half-time in 2013 of +14, by the way.

So we put the cue in the rack one quarter later, with a bigger lead.

Or the opposition were that much poorer?
 

Pessimistic

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A 10 second summary of the arguments for each team:

Hawthorn:


They backed up twice.


Brisbane:

They backed up twice.

They travelled.


Geelong:

They were written off, they lost the best player in the comp, then they rose again and played one of the best seasons ever.

They played better opponents.

They were more dominant over their opposition- in home & away and finals. They won by more. They did it more easily.

They swept all 3 premierships.

They won more games overall.

Fair bit of luck (or tenacity) in 2009 GF. Swept? hardly. won one quarter by more than the opponent won 2 quarters
 

Pessimistic

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And yet the vote is Narrowly 4th. not sure I agree with it, but theres a desperation that everyone should see how far superior geelong were (as in the minds of certain posters)
 

Roby

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Pretty much everyone would? Do you even follow the NBA? 5 chips > 3

I watch way more NBA than AFL. You obviously don't. Warriors recently were talked about the greatest ever team with their 4-5 HOF. Spurs were never talked about in this way.
 

Roby

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Fair bit of luck (or tenacity) in 2009 GF. Swept? hardly. won one quarter by more than the opponent won 2 quarters

Pjays forms an idea then go and seeks evidence for it as opposed look at evidence then form a theory. It's obvious to me he is trying to give St Kilda relevance as they were only good for two years. By making the argument that Geelong and Collingwood are the best teams ever it suggest that the Saints would've won at the very least back-to-back in any other two year period. That is why all his posts are selective stats in favour of his point of view as opposed to a balance argument.
 

PJays

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Hawks didn't lose the best player in the comp?


Geelong was helped by having a deep midfield. Hawthorn was helped by Gunston developing into his prime just as Buddy left. Neither team felt the effects of their superstar departure.

The difference is the stage of the era each team was in.

Some of Hawthorn's long standing stars were in their primes- Rioli, Roughhead, Lewis, Birchall, weren't that old in 2014. All 24-27. They had younger players like Breust, Gunston, Hill, Shiels, Smith, Stratton.

But in 2011 Geelong was old. Ling, Scarlett, Corey, Chapman, Ottens, Mooney, Wojinski, Enright, Corey, Hunt, Milburn, most of their core from 2007 to 2010 was 30ish by 2011. Harley and Rooke had already retired. Apart from Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor there was barely anyone under 25 in the team.

They'd lost the prelim comfortably and the feeling was their time had come and gone.

That back drop- getting old- in combination with losing Ablett is what makes 2011 impressive.

Half their team had been contending since 2004 when they lost the prelim by 9 points. They weren't meant to win another one. That's not how the AFL is meant to work. They were meant to drop away. Like Brisbane did. Like Hawthorn eventually did.

Instead, they decimated everybody and won another flag.

19-3 and won every final by over 5 goals.

They broke the system.
 
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Roby

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Geelong was helped by having a deep midfield. Hawthorn was helped by Gunston developing into his prime just as Buddy left. Neither team felt the effects of their superstar departure.

The difference is the stage of the era each team was in.

Some of Hawthorn's long standing stars were in their primes- Rioli, Roughhead, Lewis, Birchall, weren't that old in 2014. All 24-27. They had younger players like Breust, Gunston, Hill, Shiels, Smith, Stratton.

But in 2011 Geelong was old. Ling, Scarlett, Corey, Chapman, Ottens, Wojinski, Enright, Corey, Hunt, most of their core from 2007 to 2010 was 30ish by 2011. Apart from Selwood, Hawkins and Taylor there was barely anyone under 25 in the team.

They'd lost the prelim comfortably and the feeling was their time had come and gone.

That back drop- getting old- in combination with losing Ablett is what makes 2011 impressive.

They weren't meant to win another one. That's not how the AFL is meant to work. They were meant to drop away. Like Brisbane did. Like Hawthorn eventually did.

Instead, they decimated everybody and won another flag.

19-3 and won every final by over 5 goals.

They broke the system.

What system was broken?
 

Roby

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Tend to think the end of the fourth is the most important. But I'm crazy like that.

The end of the fourth quarter is just one moment in a game and certainly is no more valuable than a while 25-30 mins of a quarter. There is no end of a game without a first quarter, not even a start.
 
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