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2020 Trade & List Management discussion

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1970crow said:
How could I not realise it when I specifically mentioned both those picks in my post. God you can be as dumb as Vader with maths.

31 players plus Hately = 32 + 4 picks to 23 = 36 + Borlase = 37. We can't use both 40 and 56 for sliders if Borlase isn't bid on prior to that. It's a pretty simple concept, but then you're not known for your ability to comprehend. Now, we lose nothing by waiting until after the draft to re-contract Mackay and keeping our draft options fully open. And even if we do fill it with a slider, he can go onto the rookie list.

I dare you to explain the benefit derived from having Mackay on the main list instead of the rookie list. Even you understand that there's the potential for it to cost us a slider that we rate, so you should be able to explain the benefit that counteracts that.
Click to expand...
Yawn
 
1970crow said:
How could I not realise it when I specifically mentioned both those picks in my post. God you can be as dumb as Vader with maths.

31 players plus Hately = 32 + 4 picks to 23 = 36 + Borlase = 37. We can't use both 40 and 56 for sliders if Borlase isn't bid on prior to that. It's a pretty simple concept, but then you're not known for your ability to comprehend. Now, we lose nothing by waiting until after the draft to re-contract Mackay and keeping our draft options fully open. And even if we do fill it with a slider, he can go onto the rookie list.

I dare you to explain the benefit derived from having Mackay on the main list instead of the rookie list. Even you understand that there's the potential for it to cost us a slider that we rate, so you should be able to explain the benefit that counteracts that.
Click to expand...
Totally agree with this. The argument of keeping Mackay for another year is totally separate to whether we should have moved him to the rookie list. Having the extra spot on the main list gives us so much more flexibility in the draft this year, but also during next year if there is someone that jumps up before any mid season draft or list adjustment. It has many advantages, and absolutely no disadvantage that I can see.
 
Thetrader15 said:
We aren't locked into picking him if we nominate. He can be rookie listed for nothing or we can pass. There is no downside at all that I can see.
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With father-sons that you nominate for the main draft, you're guaranteeing them the final spot on the list. If someone picks them earlier, you don't have to match, but if NO ONE picks them you have to take them.
 
Hodgy said:
Totally agree with this. The argument of keeping Mackay for another year is totally separate to whether we should have moved him to the rookie list. Having the extra spot on the main list gives us so much more flexibility in the draft this year, but also during next year if there is someone that jumps up before any mid season draft or list adjustment. It has many advantages, and absolutely no disadvantage that I can see.
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Look, I'd prefer we took five in the main draft, but presumably they're timing delistings and when to go to the draft.

Another late main draft selection puts someone on the list for two years minimum. If we instead keep Mackay for one year and go rookies (one year) we have more flexibility for next year.

Two picks in the midseason is probably more important. There will be some excellent 19 year olds we could get in early.
 

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The end of next year will be interesting.

A LOT of contracts coming up.

I could see six senior list and a rookie spot opening up without too much fuss, and that's before any strategic trading or free agency loss.

DELISTINGS AND RETIREMENTS
Ben Davis 2021
David Mackay 2021 UFA
Jake Kelly 2021 RFA
Kieran Strachan 2021
Lachlan Murphy 2021
Paul Seedsman 2021
Taylor Walker 2021 UFA

YOUTH - RE-SIGNED
Andrew McPherson 2021
Darcy Fogarty 2021
Fischer McAsey 2021
Harry Schoenberg 2021
Jordon Butts 2021
Josh Worrell 2021
Lachlan Gollant 2021
Reilly O'Brien 2021
Ronin O'Connor 2021
Shane McAdam 2021
Tom Doedee 2021

SENIOR PLAYERS
Brodie Smith 2021 UFA
Daniel Talia 2021 RFA
Matt Crouch 2021 RFA
Rory Laird 2021 RFA
Tom Lynch 2021 RFA
 
Mego Red said:
The end of next year will be interesting.

A LOT of contracts coming up.

I could see six senior list and a rookie spot opening up without too much fuss, and that's before any strategic trading or free agency loss.

DELISTINGS AND RETIREMENTS
Ben Davis 2021
David Mackay 2021 UFA
Jake Kelly 2021 RFA
Kieran Strachan 2021
Lachlan Murphy 2021
Paul Seedsman 2021
Taylor Walker 2021 UFA

YOUTH - RE-SIGNED
Andrew McPherson 2021
Darcy Fogarty 2021
Fischer McAsey 2021
Harry Schoenberg 2021
Jordon Butts 2021
Josh Worrell 2021
Lachlan Gollant 2021
Reilly O'Brien 2021
Ronin O'Connor 2021
Shane McAdam 2021
Tom Doedee 2021

SENIOR PLAYERS
Brodie Smith 2021 UFA
Daniel Talia 2021 RFA
Matt Crouch 2021 RFA
Rory Laird 2021 RFA
Tom Lynch 2021 RFA
Click to expand...
I believe under AFL rules Butts has to be signed onto the Main list or be delisted and relisted as a rookie, After 3 years on the rookie list,
Don't have the full rule maybe Vader can help there,
 
Vader said:
No, Hately is included in the 36.

We currently have 31 on our senior list. Hately makes 32. 4x ND selections makes 36.
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I would certainly use our top 4 picks plus Borlase. No messing with draft order unless we get a mother of all deals. More I see of him I think he will be a better than average pick. Newchurch in the rookie draft but we may need to bid on him. This is why resigning McKay is strange. We could have re picked him as a delisted FA on 1 year contract.
 
ad victoriam said:
I believe under AFL rules Butts has to be signed onto the Main list or be delisted and relisted as a rookie, After 3 years on the rookie list,
Don't have the full rule maybe Vader can help there,
Click to expand...
2021 will be his 3rd year on the rookie list, which is OK. He will need to be promoted to the senior list, or delisted and re-drafted (RD), if we wish to keep him on the rookie list any beyond next season.
 
James_37 said:
You do realise we will still have free list spots at 40 and 56 despite maintaining Mackay.

Currently we have 7 free ND list spots which equates to: picks 1, 9, 22, 23, 40, 56 and 66.

Now 66 will be held for Hately, but at this stage we're likely to either take 3 and Borlase, or 4 and Borlase, which leaves 1, possibly 2 spots we could use for the unanticipated slider. We did this with Ben Davis in 2016, planned on only taking 4 players, but Davis was available at our 5th so we grabbed him.

Personally I'm a bit disappointed about keeping Mackay, but I can see the reasoning. I do hope though that he's there largely as a development coach/SANFL player.
Click to expand...
He just shouldn't be on the list at all. What is the point?
 

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Sanders said:
you think our rebuild was based on getting 50c on the dollar

it was a fire sale, unplanned, with no ground work to get value, most likely for cap purposes

I mean sheesh, talk about terrible takes
Click to expand...

Have to agree. A planned rebuild would have kept CEY and Greenwood and jettisoned the Crouch boys as they would both draw first round picks in a trade and the lesser two could still play a role keeping us somewhat competitive in the midfield

We gave away our solid role players for nothing and outside of Brouch haven’t moved any of our mid to older talent for any value.

It is a rebuild - but done on the fly not pre planned or thought out


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
rabidcrow said:
Have to agree. A planned rebuild would have kept CEY and Greenwood and jettisoned the Crouch boys as they would both draw first round picks in a trade and the lesser two could still play a role keeping us somewhat competitive in the midfield

We gave away our solid role players for nothing and outside of Brouch haven’t moved any of our mid to older talent for any value.

It is a rebuild - but done on the fly not pre planned or thought out


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Maybe.

CEY and Greenwood wouldn't have kept us remotely competitive, and I think the rebuild assumes we keep some mid career players who will still be playing good footy in 2023.

I think they're planning to add to Laird and Matt Crouch, not replace them.

Brad Crouch? Sounds like we were open to him leaving after his B&F year, but it didn't happen.
 
Mego Red said:
With father-sons that you nominate for the main draft, you're guaranteeing them the final spot on the list. If someone picks them earlier, you don't have to match, but if NO ONE picks them you have to take them.
Click to expand...
...in the rookie draft, not ND.
 
Sanders said:
you think our rebuild was based on getting 50c on the dollar

it was a fire sale, unplanned, with no ground work to get value, most likely for cap purposes

I mean sheesh, talk about terrible takes
Click to expand...
You’re delusional and all on your own other than 1970 who is living 2 years in the past

it was a planned restructure of the list /rebuild

average age and average games played round 1 next year will show the youngest or second youngest team in comp

even if Dmac plays ( and no , I don’t think Dmac should be on the list )
 
rabidcrow said:
Have to agree. A planned rebuild would have kept CEY and Greenwood and jettisoned the Crouch boys as they would both draw first round picks in a trade and the lesser two could still play a role keeping us somewhat competitive in the midfield

We gave away our solid role players for nothing and outside of Brouch haven’t moved any of our mid to older talent for any value.

It is a rebuild - but done on the fly not pre planned or thought out


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
Because you give away solid role players and get nothing in return it’s not a deliberate rebuild ?

so a rebuild isn’t dependant on replacing experienced players and hitting the draft ?
 

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1970crow said:
Oh my. So we were rebuilding end of 2017 when we traded out Cameron and Lever? Just because players are traded doesn't mean we're rebuilding, especially if those players have contracts in front of them but choose to not sign.
Click to expand...
Nope

2020 was start of our rebuild years , deliberate change in philosophy
 
1970crow said:
The argument isn't whether it's a rebuild or how deep it has turned out to be, it's the degree to which it was planned. Which it wasn't as we had contracts in front of almost all our departing players, including completely cooked Sauce. Only Dougie was forcibly retired. We didn't hit a rebuild button end of 2019 and make list decisions accordingly. In round 1, Mackay was the only senior player without a severely interrupted preseason that wasn't selected. Our rebuild didn't start until we realised how totally sh*t our best 22 was.
Click to expand...
And what happened in round 2 and 3 ?
 
Thetrader15 said:
...in the rookie draft, not ND.
Click to expand...
Given about 50 players are set to be taken in the ND, there's likely to be players that slip through. Makes sense not to hamstring yourself.

If he makes it to our last rookie pick which he may or may not, we can still take him if we want.
 

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2020 Trade & List Management discussion

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