Recommitted Josh Dunkley [OOC 2022, requested a trade to Essendon, didn't get there]

JayJ20

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There is some criticism of Dodoro, but the defence of his trading this year and last is strident, and it's not one or two isolated examples.


Again, refer previous comments about Dodoro not valuing his own deal as enough.
There is pleeenty of criticism for Dodoro regarding Daniher. Many believed we should have traded Daniher last year instead of holding onto him. Plenty of criticism for the Shiel trade. Most Essendon fans also believed he unnecessarily made the Fantasia trade complicated.

I don’t have any problems with his conduct regarding the Dunkley trade though except for the length it took to come up with his offer. The final offer of pick 8 and a future second is more than enough. The 3-way trade for Treloar and Dunkley was also enough. Bulldogs just weren’t interested which is fair enough.

You’re misinterpreting Dodoro’s statement. Saying he wouldn’t do the deal if he was Bulldogs doesn’t mean he believes that’s what Dunkley is worth. It means he understands why Bulldogs didn’t trade Dunkley and would do the same for a player like him. A classic case of a player being worth more to a club than the open market considering Dunkley only has 3 quarters of one season last year to even justify a first rounder. There’s a reason why we targeted Dunkley over an Oliver type because he should realistically be cheaper than Oliver. Someone that’s pushed out of the midfield loses value.

Don’t think Dodoro or anyone expected the price to be 2 top 10 picks, which is what a contracted Oliver costs. We offered as high as we could and moved on from it. No issues there. All of Essendon, Bulldogs and Dunkley parted in an amicable way.
 

steve_m

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Everyone is saying the Bulldogs have too many midfielders and that it's bad for team balance.

Back in 2009, in the middle of Geelong's glory years, they had Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Selwood, Chapman, Kelly and Ling running through the middle, and they won the flag.

Yet somehow, the introduction of Treloar will mean Dunkley gets less midfield time than ever?
 

Flags_In_The_Bag

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Not a fan of overseas teams.....
How is that relevant to Dunkley winning a Brownlow or the Coleman? Neither are happening in 2021 at the Bulldogs.
That's a lot of words to say I was right.
I guess you would come up with that conclusion.
Pitty I couldn't use crayon to help you understand it better 😉
 

adogsfan5

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Everyone is saying the Bulldogs have too many midfielders and that it's bad for team balance.

Back in 2009, in the middle of Geelong's glory years, they had Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Selwood, Chapman, Kelly and Ling running through the middle, and they won the flag.

Yet somehow, the introduction of Treloar will mean Dunkley gets less midfield time than ever?

Unfortunately it’s a lazy and easy way of thinking about it.
 
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Both teams probably did what was best for their own clubs.

Dogs held on to a contracted required player, made a stance for any future contracted players who want to leave and had the right to ask for a premium price as they did. Next year he will still be contracted, they can set the price again and it’s easier to accept draft picks given no JUH bid to match.

Essendon finally go to the draft with a decent hand and start a rebuild that’s been looming for a while, they had been treading water in the middle of the table without enough youth to take them forward.

The only part that makes Essendon not come out glowingly is that they got a player to nominate them knowing the price the dogs had set and then failed to get the deal done. Was probably the right call for their long term future but at the same time when you get a player to nominate your club there is an onus to get the deal done. May make players less likely to nominate them in future but may not.
 
Everyone is saying the Bulldogs have too many midfielders and that it's bad for team balance.

Back in 2009, in the middle of Geelong's glory years, they had Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Selwood, Chapman, Kelly and Ling running through the middle, and they won the flag.

Yet somehow, the introduction of Treloar will mean Dunkley gets less midfield time than ever?

With all do respect that 2009 Geelong midfield is ******* light years beyond the dogs......so not exactly the best comparison.....
 
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Both teams probably did what was best for their own clubs.

Dogs held on to a contracted required player, made a stance for any future contracted players who want to leave and had the right to ask for a premium price as they did. Next year he will still be contracted, they can set the price again and it’s easier to accept draft picks given no JUH bid to match.

Essendon finally go to the draft with a decent hand and start a rebuild that’s been looming for a while, they had been treading water in the middle of the table without enough youth to take them forward.

The only part that makes Essendon not come out glowingly is that they got a player to nominate them knowing the price the dogs had set and then failed to get the deal done. Was probably the right call for their long term future but at the same time when you get a player to nominate your club there is an onus to get the deal done. May make players less likely to nominate them in future but may not.

I agree with everything you said except bolded bit....

Essendon would have told Dunkley what their limit was prior to him nominating us. Getting a player to nominate you DOES NOT mean you sell the farm to get the player just out of principle. Essendon already offered overs on Dunkley to the Dogs and the Dogs were all within their right to reject and request absurd overs, but Essendon are also well within in their right to hold firm, like I said Dunkley would have known this. If Dodoro had of given up 2 x Top 10 Picks with one of those being our future first (This is reportedly what the Dogs were asking for) he would have been burned at the stake.

Like I said I think both clubs did what was best for them given the situation.
 
I think the 2021 first and a 2020 second plus extras would have gotten the deal over the line.
It was an odd year given our JUH bidding.

I suspect Dunkley requests a trade at the end of 2021. He won't be used in the ruck again but he sure as hell won't be a full time mid when we've added Treloar and even if/when libba is managed we'll have Macrae, Bont and Smith both demanding centre rotations.

It will be interesting if Essendon sign Kyle too. If another team signs him (north?) they'd be the front runners for Josh's services.

Surley the dogs just * off libba and put Dunkley in the middle and than offer him a more juicer extension at the end of 2021 - when he still has a year left.

If the only person keeping Dunkley out of Dogs midfield is Libba than surely that's an easy call to make....
 
Surley the dogs just fu** off libba and put Dunkley in the middle and than offer him a more juicer extension at the end of 2021 - when he still has a year left.

If the only person keeping Dunkley out of Dogs midfield is Libba than surely that's an easy call to make....
Libba's knee is held together with gaffa-tape and prayers, I suspect he's managed a lot more this year. We have added Treloar though so Dunkley will rest elsewhere.

I do expect that with reduce rotations teams will try keep their best midfielders on the field more and that could lead to more injury, so Dunkley may just get more midfield time by default.
 

WallyStringhaus

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I agree with everything you said except bolded bit....

Essendon would have told Dunkley what their limit was prior to him nominating us. Getting a player to nominate you DOES NOT mean you sell the farm to get the player just out of principle. Essendon already offered overs on Dunkley to the Dogs and the Dogs were all within their right to reject and request absurd overs, but Essendon are also well within in their right to hold firm, like I said Dunkley would have known this. If Dodoro had of given up 2 x Top 10 Picks with one of those being our future first (This is reportedly what the Dogs were asking for) he would have been burned at the stake.

Like I said I think both clubs did what was best for them given the situation.
This is a fair and reasoned response but it still begs the question, which has been plaguing us Doggies supporters;

If Essendon already offered overs (your exact words) then why did your own list manager say that he too would have knocked back the deal offered?

Wouldn't that be the very definition of offering under the value of the player?

I still can't believe that Essendon didn't pull the trigger. With the Bombers recent drafting history they should have been taking the known over the unkown.

Dunks is Josh Kennedy 2.0. He is EXACTLY what the Dons needed. Big bodied, hard and tough, professional, a leader, a perfect age, knows what it takes to win a flag and he wanted it. He wanted the responsibility of leading you guys back up the ladder. He was all in.

I doubt the Swans would have paid their own first back in 2009 in addition to a potential top 5 pick the year after but 10 years later its a no brainer;

Gary Rohan and one of Swallow, Bennell, Gaff, Polec or Conca or Josh Kennedy? Which would you rather? I'd take Kennedy everyday of the week.
 
This is a fair and reasoned response but it still begs the question, which has been plaguing us Doggies supporters;

If Essendon already offered overs (your exact words) then why did your own list manager say that he too would have knocked back the deal offered?

Wouldn't that be the very definition of offering under the value of the player?

I still can't believe that Essendon didn't pull the trigger. With the Bombers recent drafting history they should have been taking the known over the unkown.

Dunks is Josh Kennedy 2.0. He is EXACTLY what the Dons needed. Big bodied, hard and tough, professional, a leader, a perfect age, knows what it takes to win a flag and he wanted it. He wanted the responsibility of leading you guys back up the ladder. He was all in.

I doubt the Swans would have paid their own first back in 2009 in addition to a potential top 5 pick the year after but 10 years later its a no brainer;

Gary Rohan and one of Swallow, Bennell, Gaff, Polec or Conca or Josh Kennedy? Which would you rather? I'd take Kennedy everyday of the week.

I think he just said that trying to put himself in Dogs boots, I wouldn't read into it too much.

I'm pretty sure that if Dodo had said the opposite and said that Dogs should have done the deal for a First + 2nd rounder (which is what we offered) than dogs supporters still would have laid into him.....

I don't disagree he is exactly what we need. But he isn't worth 2 top 10's, that would be a historic price for a kid that hasn't even made a single All Australian team.
 

WallyStringhaus

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I think he just said that trying to put himself in Dogs boots, I wouldn't read into it too much.

I'm pretty sure that if Dodo had said the opposite and said that Dogs should have done the deal for a First + 2nd rounder (which is what we offered) than dogs supporters still would have laid into him.....
Personally i think Dodoro does a pretty good job at the trade table. He always seems to come out on top even if the personnel recruited is somewhat questionable.

This time he had the golden egg in his hands and he fumbled it. Dunkley is/was the perfect fit for you and he baulked at the price. A few years back people thought we got fleeced for trading our captain, paying a significant portion of his contract AND pick 6 for Tom Boyd. Sometimes you just gotta pay the price for what you want.
 
Personally i think Dodoro does a pretty good job at the trade table. He always seems to come out on top even if the personnel recruited is somewhat questionable.

This time he had the golden egg in his hands and he fumbled it. Dunkley is/was the perfect fit for you and he baulked at the price. A few years back people thought we got fleeced for trading our captain, paying a significant portion of his contract AND pick 6 for Tom Boyd. Sometimes you just gotta pay the price for what you want.

I don't really disagree with you but yeah, not my cup of tea for the price tag associated.. I don't want a Tom Boyd situation with us, he was a complete failure, apart from a GF which I would argue you would have win anyway without him.

IMO Dunkley needs to produce more to warrant that kind of a price tag, may end up biting us in the ass but i'm more than happy to go into the draft with 3 top 10 picks.

Whether people like to admit it or not, Dodo is one if not the best trade negotiator in the game. The majority of the time he gets deals done to Essendon's benefit. Drafting though, that's where he is a quite lackluster.
 

WallyStringhaus

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I don't really disagree with you but yeah, not my cup of tea for the price tag associated.. I don't want a Tom Boyd situation with us, he was a complete failure, apart from a GF which I would argue you would have win anyway without him.

IMO Dunkley needs to produce more to warrant that kind of a price tag, may end up biting us in the ass but i'm more than happy to go into the draft with 3 top 10 picks.

Whether people like to admit it or not, Dodo is one if not the best trade negotiator in the game. The majority of the time he gets deals done to Essendon's benefit. Drafting though, that's where he is a quite lackluster.
Would have to disagree on the Tom Boyd take. We wouldn't have made the GF without his tireless work after Roughy was injured in the PF. Ask anyone on the Dogs board and we would all do the trade a hundred times over.

Your last sentence is exactly why i would've pulled the trigger. No point having decent draft picks if you have a lackluster drafting team.

We used to waste top end draft picks on guys like Tim Walsh, Jarrad Grant, Tom Williams and Farren Ray...now we hardly put a foot wrong, even in the later rounds.

Perhaps this is the year you guys get it right :thumbsu:
 
Would have to disagree on the Tom Boyd take. We wouldn't have made the GF without his tireless work after Roughy was injured in the PF. Ask anyone on the Dogs board and we would all do the trade a hundred times over.

Your last sentence is exactly why i would've pulled the trigger. No point having decent draft picks if you have a lackluster drafting team.

We used to waste top end draft picks on guys like Tim Walsh, Jarrad Grant, Tom Williams and Farren Ray...now we hardly put a foot wrong, even in the later rounds.

Perhaps this is the year you guys get it right :thumbsu:

hopefully!
 

Significant

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I don't really disagree with you but yeah, not my cup of tea for the price tag associated.. I don't want a Tom Boyd situation with us, he was a complete failure, apart from a GF which I would argue you would have win anyway without him.

IMO Dunkley needs to produce more to warrant that kind of a price tag, may end up biting us in the ass but i'm more than happy to go into the draft with 3 top 10 picks.

Whether people like to admit it or not, Dodo is one if not the best trade negotiator in the game. The majority of the time he gets deals done to Essendon's benefit. Drafting though, that's where he is a quite lackluster.

I just don't get this.

Would you honestly be upset if Bombers gave up two Top 10 picks for Dunkley? Honestly? Like if they literally wheeled him out in a Bombers guernsey to face the media Friday morning after the trade period ended, would anyone associated with Essendon even actually care about the price you paid?

I wouldn't give a Ratts, because despite what stats you can pull up about his unproven performances, as the top dog in the midfield (circa mid-late 2019), Dunkley is a known quantity and is soooooo young he will be around for close to a decade.

Completely worth the price, and I doubt Dodo would have been burnt at the stake - he would have been lauded for getting the best player in the trade period, contracted for two more years, to nominate the club and then to get him across the line.

Three top 10 picks are a very very nice consolation prize, and really you couldn't lose, but there is a lot of expectation that comes with Essendon FC - I can't recall the last time you were dedicated to the draft (outside of circumstances / punishments that were out of your control(?))
 
Jul 25, 2019
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I don't really disagree with you but yeah, not my cup of tea for the price tag associated.. I don't want a Tom Boyd situation with us, he was a complete failure, apart from a GF which I would argue you would have win anyway without him.

IMO Dunkley needs to produce more to warrant that kind of a price tag, may end up biting us in the ass but i'm more than happy to go into the draft with 3 top 10 picks.

Whether people like to admit it or not, Dodo is one if not the best trade negotiator in the game. The majority of the time he gets deals done to Essendon's benefit. Drafting though, that's where he is a quite lackluster.

Yeah the Dylan Shiel worked out well. 2 top ten picks for a bloke who butchers the ball by foot more than almost any other player in the game:)
 
Yeah the Dylan Shiel worked out well. 2 top ten picks for a bloke who butchers the ball by foot more than almost any other player in the game:)

well firstly we got a second back for Shiel, but yes you are right. We definitely got burnt in that trade.

Guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat
 
I can't recall the last time you were dedicated to the draft (outside of circumstances / punishments that were out of your control(?))
We used to always be a draft and develop club, we didn’t start really recruiting prime-aged players from other clubs until Goddard in 2012, there’s a tiny handful of examples from before then. I think that’s pretty typical across the league though, it used to be monumental for a big trade to happen during the prime of someone’s career, now it seems like several happen every year and dozens more lower level player movements besides.

There have definitely been years since 2012 when we didn’t have the currency or weren’t an attractive enough option to get players in, as you mentioned though. 2016 was a good year for us draft wise, and 2013 was good under the circumstances – both produced players that will be top 10 highest paid at the club (qualify for RFA). ‘14 and ‘15 were more middling, produced players that are consistent top 10 in the bnf. ‘12 and ‘17 were very mediocre, ‘18 looks similar as well. I would class that as a draft producing role players and fringe only (f/s not included). 2011’s draft haul might be best described as a disaster.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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well firstly we got a second back for Shiel, but yes you are right. We definitely got burnt in that trade.

Guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat

I was genuinely surprised that of Shiel and Setterfield being available, Shiel was the one you decided to poach.

Essendon were heavily link to Setterfield and then came out of nowhere to land Shiel. Such a strange decision.
 
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I agree with everything you said except bolded bit....

Essendon would have told Dunkley what their limit was prior to him nominating us. Getting a player to nominate you DOES NOT mean you sell the farm to get the player just out of principle. Essendon already offered overs on Dunkley to the Dogs and the Dogs were all within their right to reject and request absurd overs, but Essendon are also well within in their right to hold firm, like I said Dunkley would have known this. If Dodoro had of given up 2 x Top 10 Picks with one of those being our future first (This is reportedly what the Dogs were asking for) he would have been burned at the stake.

Like I said I think both clubs did what was best for them given the situation.

agree on this. There is also an onus on the team trading the player to act in good and reasonable faith when trading. It is not all pinned on the team he is leaving for to “ stick em up and gimme everything you got” train robbery style mentality people seem to believe...

History has shown repeatedly time and time again for any smart person to look across, that players of similar worth tend to go for roughly the same value across the years. The market sets its value for x and y type and the clubs agree to it 95% of the time unless exceptional circumstances intervene.

not sure why essendon didn’t want to pay 2 x 1sts?? Probably about right for value based off precedent, but you shouldn’t have been expected to sell the farm under any circumstances.
 
agree on this. There is also an onus on the team trading the player to act in good and reasonable faith when trading. It is not all pinned on the team he is leaving for to “ stick em up and gimme everything you got” train robbery style mentality people seem to believe...

History has shown repeatedly time and time again for any smart person to look across, that players of similar worth tend to go for roughly the same value across the years. The market sets its value for x and y type and the clubs agree to it 95% of the time unless exceptional circumstances intervene.

not sure why essendon didn’t want to pay 2 x 1sts?? Probably about right for value based off precedent, but you shouldn’t have been expected to sell the farm under any circumstances.

I have no issues for 2 firsts but not 2 x top 10’s especially next year which is a super stacked draft.

Something significant would have had to come back with Dunkley which I doubt dogs would do.

If Essendon were lazy and didn’t get another clubs 2021 first than that’s a different story but again, depends what it meant giving up this year.
 

Daine

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I just don't get this.

Would you honestly be upset if Bombers gave up two Top 10 picks for Dunkley? Honestly? Like if they literally wheeled him out in a Bombers guernsey to face the media Friday morning after the trade period ended, would anyone associated with Essendon even actually care about the price you paid?

I wouldn't give a Ratts, because despite what stats you can pull up about his unproven performances, as the top dog in the midfield (circa mid-late 2019), Dunkley is a known quantity and is soooooo young he will be around for close to a decade.

Completely worth the price, and I doubt Dodo would have been burnt at the stake - he would have been lauded for getting the best player in the trade period, contracted for two more years, to nominate the club and then to get him across the line.

Three top 10 picks are a very very nice consolation prize, and really you couldn't lose, but there is a lot of expectation that comes with Essendon FC - I can't recall the last time you were dedicated to the draft (outside of circumstances / punishments that were out of your control(?))

I would of been upset if one of those picks was our 2021 first, which from what I've heard would of been required. We will most likely have a top 5 pick in that draft and it has some really exciting top end talent. I think there is a good chance we could get a player as good or better than Dunkley in that draft. And
we probably would of had to include one of our top 10 picks in 2020 too. That's an easy pass for me.
 
I have no issues for 2 firsts but not 2 x top 10’s especially next year which is a super stacked draft.

Something significant would have had to come back with Dunkley which I doubt dogs would do.

If Essendon were lazy and didn’t get another clubs 2021 first than that’s a different story but again, depends what it meant giving up this year.
Look at the players who were drafted pick 7 and 8 in the last 10 years.
Dunkley will probably have a better career if you doubled the average career of those 20 players.

For example, those 20 players have only made the All-Australian squad of 40, 3 times in their careers, something Dunkley has already done and probably should do again.

Entirely fair request for a contracted player.
 
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