Child Care

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00Stinger said:
I pay just under $300 after the rebate for 2 kids x 2 days a week

Pretty sure before the rebate it is $135-$140 a day at the center my kids go to
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Maybe its my age bracket but I struggle to understand how young families or partners or singles can afford this and survive.

The pay packets would be skinned alive I would think?
 
JoondalupJ said:
Maybe its my age bracket but I struggle to understand how young families or partners or singles can afford this and survive.

The pay packets would be skinned alive I would think?
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Its far from ideal but it is what it is i guess. But I kind of think you have to factor these things in before you have kids.

With childcare and a decent mortgage it definitely does add up in costs. Off top of my head I reckon it sets us back about $4.2k-$4.5k a month for childcare & the mortgage.

Probably lucky my wife and I make pretty decent money and just budget for it and don't notice it too much unless I look through the bank account

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In Perth near the city ours is $160 a day. Our rebate is 22% and they’re in three days a week each. Fair to say that it’s expensive.
 
JoondalupJ said:
Thanks, very expensive, how on earth do people afford it?
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I pulled up an invoice from the end of last year. For one child it was $560/week with a rebate of $167 (it was capped to $7500/year), so essentially $80/day per child (I think it was $90 from start of 2020). So it was around $1600-1700/month for one child.

I never explored salary sacrifice of child care but that may also bring down the net cost.
 
utility said:
I pulled up an invoice from the end of last year. For one child it was $560/week with a rebate of $167 (it was capped to $7500/year), so essentially $80/day per child (I think it was $90 from start of 2020). So it was around $1600-1700/month for one child.

I never explored salary sacrifice of child care but that may also bring down the net cost.
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Maybe its my age brackett , but 80 dollars a day suggests to me you would not be a person doing that sort of paying out if you were not well paid, when I was working there was no way we could afford 80 dollars a day, and from what I read it is pretty normal maybe quite low, even two parents working in lower economic circumstances would struggle, and that what I was, both of us.
I have other family looking at this and curiosity had me ask.
I seriously cannot believe how people can afford it even with a pittance for a subsidy, if you had 20 kids in an $80 dollar a day for 5 days a week, child care centre, that establishment makes $8000, and thats at the lower end, $80 a day x 5 days = 400 per child per week x 20 kids equals $8000.00 dollars for say four people? 1 person to 5 kids?
Say average work time frames of 9 hr shifts per day per employee, who work for $25 dollars P/H each gets $1125.00 per week $4500 employee costs, leaves $3,500 dollars gross, to owner ?
Two things about that, is that enough for the owner who I assume would have to be on site and part of the workforce, with different aged kids, there's be costs for feeding kids, there'd be toys, electricity, TV, bathrooms, sleep areas, first aid room, the costs look astronomical.
So perhaps it is something government need to figure out, maybe work out some way where mums or dads can bring up their kids with only one needing to be working, (professionals with two working well they may afford super child care facilities) that way kids have a parent around in the early important years of being alive.
The subsidy seems pathetic and the cost outlandish, so any wonder some places have trouble keeping up.
I wonder why you would even start a child minding centre? Maybe they make more than I think?
So how close is that to what it might cost to do that sort of business. I'd reckon $80 bucks a day per child is pretty conservative?
 
JoondalupJ said:
Maybe its my age brackett , but 80 dollars a day suggests to me you would not be a person doing that sort of paying out if you were not well paid, when I was working there was no way we could afford 80 dollars a day, and from what I read it is pretty normal maybe quite low, even two parents working in lower economic circumstances would struggle, and that what I was, both of us.
I have other family looking at this and curiosity had me ask.
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The major factors are a) single or double income families, b) income levels and c) number of children. So for some parents it is simply not viable.

BTW that's $80 PER CHILD. There was one year both my kids were in all week and it was costing ~$750/week. So the missus' salary was simply covering child care costs. If we had a third child of that age she would have had to quit her job.

For comparison, the before/after school care costs at our school are ~$50/day (school holidays $75-100/day). A subsidy is applied to that based on income levels so may drop to closer to $15-20/day per child.

The cost drops significantly once kids go to school, but then you're hit with school fees, uniforms, etc. as well.

Having children is not cheap!
 
JoondalupJ said:
I wonder why you would even start a child minding centre? Maybe they make more than I think?
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The subsidy goes straight to the centre, not the parents.

BTW my rates were for a not-for-profit community centre. I know from the AGMs that there weren't large margins (essentially break even). It is a great centre so I feel blessed my kids went there (even though it cost an arm and a leg).
 

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utility said:
I believe it is capped to 7.5k per child per year, but things may have changed.
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No annual cap if your family income is under 190k - and if your family income is under 70k you subsidy is 85%
 
utility said:
The subsidy goes straight to the centre, not the parents.

BTW my rates were for a not-for-profit community centre. I know from the AGMs that there weren't large margins (essentially break even). It is a great centre so I feel blessed my kids went there (even though it cost an arm and a leg).
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The arm and the leg are the whole point, they are mostly good places, and you can't do without them. Seems there is no perfect answer.
 
JoondalupJ said:
I seriously cannot believe how people can afford it even with a pittance for a subsidy, if you had 20 kids in an $80 dollar a day for 5 days a week, child care centre, that establishment makes $8000, and thats at the lower end, $80 a day x 5 days = 400 per child per week x 20 kids equals $8000.00 dollars for say four people? 1 person to 5 kids?
Say average work time frames of 9 hr shifts per day per employee, who work for $25 dollars P/H each gets $1125.00 per week $4500 employee costs, leaves $3,500 dollars gross, to owner ?
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So a few years back I was working in finance at a company that had opened up about 6 childcare/kinder facilities

I can remember the exact figures but it was something like if a centre ran at about 75-80% occupancy they were bleeding cash. Once the centre got to around the 85% capacity it would roughly break even and obviously anything above that level it was in profit

But from memory a fairly big centre running at about 100% capacity was only making around the $200-$250k profit. Which is nothing to sfellow at but you need to take into account the costs involved in buying the land, building and set up of the centre. You are looking at it being a long term investment.

Plus the site(s) that were around 70% capacity were losing in excess of $100k per year
 
00Stinger said:
So a few years back I was working in finance at a company that had opened up about 6 childcare/kinder facilities

I can remember the exact figures but it was something like if a centre ran at about 75-80% occupancy they were bleeding cash. Once the centre got to around the 85% capacity it would roughly break even and obviously anything above that level it was in profit

But from memory a fairly big centre running at about 100% capacity was only making around the $200-$250k profit. Which is nothing to sfellow at but you need to take into account the costs involved in buying the land, building and set up of the centre. You are looking at it being a long term investment.

Plus the site(s) that were around 70% capacity were losing in excess of $100k per year
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It seems that we maybe need a complete change of how we look after our children and maybe Mum or Dad need to be bringing up the kids without any kind of child care centres, during those extremely important years from birth to school start.

This is our world nowI
if you can't financially survive without both parents needing to work, if you have no grandparents or relatives to do that, you pay through the nose to have your kids minded and maybe these places are OK but maybe some are not.

But these places don't seem to be making a huge living in running child care, so we are left with no answers, and some centres that can't do the job?
We get children who get used to not having mum or dad around a lot of the time.
Then you get the situations where one parent doesn't want to be involved, or there is separation, so we get lots of single deserted mums (sometimes Dads) trying to work, pay rent, look after their kids simply because the bloke/woman involved doesn't think he/she has any responsibility.
We all know this happens, you can't do much about human nature, that in some they have no idea about a child and how important parents are to them. Important like you wouldn't believe. Thats what has "effed up" the world in my mind. And why you pay through the nose for child minding.
Now that may sound harsh on some men and women, but unfortunately its a fact in many cases in this strange world we have developed into?

So not wanting to sound like a left-wing socialist, which I ain't.
I think in the case of children= the most important thing we produce for the future in our life, governments whatever bent they are, should make a priority of really cheap or free child care. If they can't change the economics of a nation, so that one parent needs to work while the other brings up the kid, man or woman it doesn't matter, its a parent, and kids know! Believe me kids know!

Sounds a bit of a step back into the past, but what other way is there?
And the future will see jobs disappearing to technology yes ? No?!
An opportunity to in fact send a parent home to bring up their own offspring????

Let the other parent work and for good money. Child has then got a mum or dad with them.

Hah!! Can you see any pollie ever being able to think and develop an idea like that.

No big picture thinkers these days.
Big Paulie was the last one.
Any way my wife and I have the pleasure of a small and delightful little girl to look after, sometimes not easy and she rules the roost til mum gets home, a treasure she is, and I would think that the cost to have someone mind your own flesh and blood so carefully would be astronimical.

She's with her family. For those without that privilege , I would hope that governments of what ever colour look properly and honestly into the big picture of how we bring up our kids.
Weird child care so difficult a problem for all, not just mum and dad but the poor folk trying to run that kind of business?
Got me stuffed?

So something needs to change in our world!
 
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