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Rumour GFC 2020 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt2

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WARNING TO ALL VISITORS TO THE GEELONG BOARD. You are - for the most part - welcome to discuss the current list management & trading situation at Geelong. However, this is our board, so be respectful of the home board posters & don't inflame arguments (make your points succinctly and move on). And if you're just here to troll, then don't bother or you will be enjoying a holiday
 
strauchnyy said:
Thanks.

Just watched Holmes “highlights” from that 1 game. And boy oh boy I surely hope that was a terrible game and not an indication of what we will get for a first round pick. Lost, turnovers, no presence, no use of speed or anything. Seemed clean below his knees but based on that 3 min clip, what I saw was undraftable attributes.
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If you look at the website there's footage from a scratch match or school match where he was much better. Looked a different player.
 
MacStradbroke said:
Obviously very confident Cats were taking him. Mates were ready to go nuts before they read his name out, one even had a Cats indigenous guernsey on. I like this pick even more now. Sounds like a genuine targeted player.
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Yeah one had a cats jumper and another had a Melbourne jumper. Reckon they might have had a sneaky wager
 
strauchnyy said:
Thanks.

Just watched Holmes “highlights” from that 1 game. And boy oh boy I surely hope that was a terrible game and not an indication of what we will get for a first round pick. Lost, turnovers, no presence, no use of speed or anything. Seemed clean below his knees but based on that 3 min clip, what I saw was undraftable attributes.
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Thought the same.
 
year of the cat said:
Thought the same.
Click to expand...
strauchnyy said:
Thanks.

Just watched Holmes “highlights” from that 1 game. And boy oh boy I surely hope that was a terrible game and not an indication of what we will get for a first round pick. Lost, turnovers, no presence, no use of speed or anything. Seemed clean below his knees but based on that 3 min clip, what I saw was undraftable attributes.
Click to expand...

Watched the highlights on the Geelong website and was actually impressed with a few things he did
 

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Good trade and ND by the team.
Wins -
- Cameron,Smithand Higgins - ready to go elites in areas we needed, could ‘bridge the gap’ for side 1H from a premiership. Fitness/resilience the question.

- Holmes, Neale, Stevens right players for key future needs and Tsapa a good project. (Laughed/groaned that Wells continued the tradition of recruiting a player that missed most of the previous season although broken arm/Private Scool/Covid means shouldn’t be too much to worry with about Holmes).

Losses -
-Little sad to see Tarca go - Curious to see if that 2020 2H potential flourishes, in SA presumably. Right call i think.

-would have been good to keep one first round this year and (particularly) next.

Overall a pretty handy outcome I think. Time will tell but ... ‘I’ve got a [good!] feeling about this’.
 
Live in hope said:
Good trade and ND by the team.
Wins -
- Cameron,Smithand Higgins - ready to go elites in areas we needed, could ‘bridge the gap’ for side 1H from a premiership. Fitness/resilience the question.

- Holmes, Neale, Stevens right players for key future needs and Tsapa a good project. (Laughed/groaned that Wells continued the tradition of recruiting a player that missed most of the previous season although broken arm/Private Scool/Covid means shouldn’t be too much to worry with about Holmes).

Losses -
-Little sad to see Tarca go - Curious to see if that 2020 2H potential flourishes, in SA presumably. Right call i think.

-would have been good to keep one first round this year and (particularly) next.

Overall a pretty handy outcome I think. Time will tell but ... ‘I’ve got a [good!] feeling about this’.
Click to expand...

So hard to judge at this stage.

IMO there is room for doubt even with the addition of Jeremy Cameron. Will the classy KF be able to co-habitat with that ol' silverback Tom Hawkins? Were his COVID Blues sign of a deeper malaise?

You've zeroed in on the issue with Higgins and Smith; fitness/resilience. How much point is there in playing these acquisitions if their durability - and perhaps capacity to represent the club in Finals - is in doubt?

We had a decent hand at the draft initially, but perhaps it was fool's gold; when we consider that we were already 'reaching' at #20.
As you say LiH, our modest ND trio + the Cat B big man are a collective work in progress; none are plug-and-play types - Stevens perhaps the most likely but positionally he is at the back of a long queue.

I'd maybe argue that this particular draft, as much as the fabled '99 or '01, will be one by which Stephen Wells should be judged.
In a list management sense the club discarded a reasonable (but not strong) hand at the draft for a shot at Jeremy Cameron.
But with sample sizes dramatically reduced, and a subsequent lack of data and intelligence, perhaps Wells backed himself in to more or less get his men anyway. Maybe we could have packaged those long-ago late-first-rounders and crept further up the pecking order. The selections we had however, are likely to be speculative at best - maybe we'd have invested in a developing ruckman with an earlier pick anyway; maybe Stevens - who had already trained with us - was already earmarked for our 3rd first rounder; a 'reach' in that scenario.

Agree on Tarca, I had visions of another dimension in which he and Francis Evans combined to form an unholy admixture of the Mosquito Fleet MkII and the Baby Bombers.
 
year of the cat said:
Thought the same.
Click to expand...
Sometimes highlights display attributes , sometimes they dont ... Holmes highlights packages were interesting in the sense that I was waiting for the highlights. Id say Neales vid showed more .. but I will wait and see what we have , the package if MOC probably showed him doing stuff in his Irish game for example.
For the moment id agree our team must something that we are not seeing on the highlights package ..
 
Was gonna post this on the 'things opposition supporters say thread', but given just how 'special' this comment is, thought it worthy of posting somewhere with more exposure.

This was posted on the rumours and scandals thread re: Kim Treloar, and is hands down the craziest thing I've ever read on BF (which is no easy task given some of the crazies that lurk about on here):


"Adam and his manager requested we back end his deal, had nothing to do with our cap, word is Adam was having an affair and was seriously considering leaving his partner, road block was his partner was entitled to a portion of his wage that year, so he wanted it backended to fu** her, Collingwood gave his partner cushy admid job and wanted him to make it work, as it turned out it did work, the affair fizzled out.

But let this be known, the backending was his call, had absolutley nothing to do with club loyalty.

On a personal note i would like to say, he is as useless as titts on a bull, he plays well when we're up bu plenty, when we're down he was nowhere to be seen, most overrated footballer of all time, We have massive issues."
 
Cursed Cat said:
So hard to judge at this stage.

IMO there is room for doubt even with the addition of Jeremy Cameron. Will the classy KF be able to co-habitat with that ol' silverback Tom Hawkins? Were his COVID Blues sign of a deeper malaise?

You've zeroed in on the issue with Higgins and Smith; fitness/resilience. How much point is there in playing these acquisitions if their durability - and perhaps capacity to represent the club in Finals - is in doubt?

We had a decent hand at the draft initially, but perhaps it was fool's gold; when we consider that we were already 'reaching' at #20.
As you say LiH, our modest ND trio + the Cat B big man are a collective work in progress; none are plug-and-play types - Stevens perhaps the most likely but positionally he is at the back of a long queue.

I'd maybe argue that this particular draft, as much as the fabled '99 or '01, will be one by which Stephen Wells should be judged.
In a list management sense the club discarded a reasonable (but not strong) hand at the draft for a shot at Jeremy Cameron.
But with sample sizes dramatically reduced, and a subsequent lack of data and intelligence, perhaps Wells backed himself in to more or less get his men anyway. Maybe we could have packaged those long-ago late-first-rounders and crept further up the pecking order. The selections we had however, are likely to be speculative at best - maybe we'd have invested in a developing ruckman with an earlier pick anyway; maybe Stevens - who had already trained with us - was already earmarked for our 3rd first rounder; a 'reach' in that scenario.

Agree on Tarca, I had visions of another dimension in which he and Francis Evans combined to form an unholy admixture of the Mosquito Fleet MkII and the Baby Bombers.
Click to expand...

Almost identical to how I feel

With Tarca, I thought he showed enough in those scratch matches to persist with but covid , list reductions played a part but what was the killer was the club preferring Close ... its a bit like Highlander ... in the end there can be only one .. there are only so many spots for FP's.... true most roles.
 
Shadow89 said:
Was gonna post this on the 'things opposition supporters say thread', but given just how 'special' this comment is, thought it worthy of posting somewhere with more exposure.

This was posted on the rumours and scandals thread re: Kim Treloar, and is hands down the craziest thing I've ever read on BF (which is no easy task given some of the crazies that lurk about on here):


"Adam and his manager requested we back end his deal, had nothing to do with our cap, word is Adam was having an affair and was seriously considering leaving his partner, road block was his partner was entitled to a portion of his wage that year, so he wanted it backended to fu** her, Collingwood gave his partner cushy admid job and wanted him to make it work, as it turned out it did work, the affair fizzled out.

But let this be known, the backending was his call, had absolutley nothing to do with club loyalty.

On a personal note i would like to say, he is as useless as titts on a bull, he plays well when we're up bu plenty, when we're down he was nowhere to be seen, most overrated footballer of all time, We have massive issues."
Click to expand...
That is batshit crazy. Why would a club get involved with a player having an affair. They wouldn’t touch that with a barge pole.
 
Great article on the draft in the Age following Coll.

Only two clubs were up for trading their 1st round pick. Rich and GWS (our last JC pick).

Rich really wanted to trade 20 to Coll for their F1st. GWS were offering 23 and 29 so Coll took that but they actually needed the Reef bid to come first to wipe out their late picks so GWS did that for them as well.

Coll probably rated McRea higher than Henry but they thought GWS would nab him so went Henry first. Paul Conners had said that GWS weren’t interested in McRea. Both the
 
Overall I give our trade and draft period a D

Payed through the nose for Cameron. I have no issues with what we payed in the trade for a free agent. The advantage of free agency is getting a player for free or trading for that player on a reduced wage. We tried to bully GWS put of the trade by putting a huge offer in front of Cameron in the hope of scaring them from matching. Now we are left with a huge wage and no draft picks.

Higgins trade annoys me even more. Could have had him for nothing last year and he turned his back on us. Now after a hard year he come crawling back. We then bend over and take it. Pick 30 is terrible for a player of his age

Happy with the Smith trade. Menegola, Smith and blicavs will help covering the ground defensively for our mids. I think he is a good fit.

Trading for pick 20 was another shocker. Holmes is speculative at best. Very very risky with next year's draft going to be strong with a lot of good 19 year olds who were unable to show there wares this year.

I think Geelong would have been better off trading out of this draft into the next. I would have been happy to take a couple of small forwards and a ruckman with a late pick in this draft and reloaded for next year.
 

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Also for those that love the draft I was watching the Melbourne draft night from last year and there was a sneaky shot of their 2019 internal draft ranking board. Unlucky that a bit was hidden by a stray arm but I grabbed a snap.

They had Georgiadis top of 10 and Rivers top 20. Interesting they had McAsey so low. They had Dev Robertson at 5, Young at 4 and Tom Green at 3. Noah Anderson outside the top 5.

From our point of view they had. De Koneing at 19, Cooper Stephens at 28, Teheny at 61. They also had Sharp which GC gave us 11 for at 40!

They talked a lot about Geelong. They saw Geelong as the main danger for Georgiadis. After we took an injured Cooper Stephen they hoped that meant that we may pass on Georgiades two picks later but Port jumped in between us all.
 

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Warhorse said:
Overall I give our trade and draft period a D

Payed through the nose for Cameron. I have no issues with what we payed in the trade for a free agent. The advantage of free agency is getting a player for free or trading for that player on a reduced wage. We tried to bully GWS put of the trade by putting a huge offer in front of Cameron in the hope of scaring them from matching. Now we are left with a huge wage and no draft picks.

Higgins trade annoys me even more. Could have had him for nothing last year and he turned his back on us. Now after a hard year he come crawling back. We then bend over and take it. Pick 30 is terrible for a player of his age

Happy with the Smith trade. Menegola, Smith and blicavs will help covering the ground defensively for our mids. I think he is a good fit.

Trading for pick 20 was another shocker. Holmes is speculative at best. Very very risky with next year's draft going to be strong with a lot of good 19 year olds who were unable to show there wares this year.

I think Geelong would have been better off trading out of this draft into the next. I would have been happy to take a couple of small forwards and a ruckman with a late pick in this draft and reloaded for next year.
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Some of this is simply not true. Higgins was not a free agent last season. It’s a myth. He extended by one year to the end of 2021 but we would have had to trade prob even more as he was contracted for 2020. Eg you could have kissed goodbye 27 which we turned into 11 on draft night that was critical this year.

In the end it was Higgins + 47 for Fogerty and 41. So the net trade was Fogerty and a 6 pick slide. Make of that what you will. Fogerty would have been playing 2s next year and would have lost him for zero anyway.

You make no mention of Cockatoo for 33.
 
BigCat1 said:
Also for those that love the draft I was watching the Melbourne draft night from last year and there was a sneaky shot of their 2019 internal draft ranking board. Unlucky that a bit was hidden by a stray arm but I grabbed a snap.

They had Georgiadis top of 10 and Rivers top 20. Interesting they had McAsey so low. They had Dev Robertson at 5, Young at 4 and Tom Green at 3. Noah Anderson outside the top 5.

From our point of view they had. De Koneing at 19, Cooper Stephens at 28, Teheny at 61. They also had Sharp which GC gave us 11 for at 40!

They talked a lot about Geelong. They saw Geelong as the main danger for Georgiadis. After we took an injured Cooper Stephen they hoped that meant that we may pass on Georgiades two picks later but Port jumped in between us all.
Click to expand...

The kid I like at Brisbane rated reasonably high by them Brock Smith. He is the one Id have liked for Cockatoo trade but maybe we look again when OOC.

Listening to the the swans rep on SEN , Beatson I think, ..he stated how some looked at the draft ina numerical method..purely based on how one rates the player and ticks them off , he used more a feel for how the draft was moving

I certainly feel we are highly conscience of combine type data/testing. CooperS ..going so well in the tests last year was probably enough for us to go hard for him.

Re Georgadies type situation ... path taken and not taken is always interesting. Imagine if Port had not taken him but had taken Worrell instead.. or Smith or whoever Then it would have been a choice SDek or Georgiades. Its shows how one is not totally in charge of a list build ..and sometimes luck plays a part.

And once one picks one player , it affects a later selection. I doubt for instance after they selected Jackson that they would have looked at Bryan or Comben..perhaps it may have also affected their choices on Riccardi. Shame we cant see their whole board love to know their first round in order..
 
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Turbocat said:
The kid I like at Brisbane rated reasonably high by them Brock Smith. He is the on Id have liked for Cockatoo trade but maybe we look again when OOC.

Listening to the the swans rep on SEN ..he stated how some looked at the draft ina numerical method..purely based on how one rates the player and ticks them off , he used more a feel for how the draft was moving

I certainly feel we are highly conscience of combine type data/testing. CooperS ..going so well in the tests last year was probably enough for us to go hard for him.

Re Georgadies type situation ... path taken and not taken is always interesting. Imagine if Port had not taken him but had taken Worrell instead.. or Smith or whoever Then it would have been a choice SDek or Georgiades. Its shows how one is not totally in charge of a list build ..and sometimes luck plays a part.

And once one picks one player , it affects a later selection. I doubt for instance after they selected Jackson that they would have looked at Bryan or Comben..perhaps it may have also affected their choices on Riccardi. Shame we cant see their whole board love to know their first round in order..
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There’s only 12 players missing so without knowing exact order the had btw 6-17 Anderson, Kemp, Geogiadis, Flanders, Sarong, Rivers, Ash, Stephens, Day, Henry and they had Pickett and Weightman which they rated as the best two smalls since Cyril and Jamie Elliot were drafted 🤮 (Jason Taylor was ex Coll recruiter so just showing his bias there) They were tossing up those two as they had a real need.
 
Warhorse said:
Overall I give our trade and draft period a D

Payed through the nose for Cameron. I have no issues with what we payed in the trade for a free agent. The advantage of free agency is getting a player for free or trading for that player on a reduced wage. We tried to bully GWS put of the trade by putting a huge offer in front of Cameron in the hope of scaring them from matching. Now we are left with a huge wage and no draft picks.

Higgins trade annoys me even more. Could have had him for nothing last year and he turned his back on us. Now after a hard year he come crawling back. We then bend over and take it. Pick 30 is terrible for a player of his age

Happy with the Smith trade. Menegola, Smith and blicavs will help covering the ground defensively for our mids. I think he is a good fit.

Trading for pick 20 was another shocker. Holmes is speculative at best. Very very risky with next year's draft going to be strong with a lot of good 19 year olds who were unable to show there wares this year.

I think Geelong would have been better off trading out of this draft into the next. I would have been happy to take a couple of small forwards and a ruckman with a late pick in this draft and reloaded for next year.
Click to expand...

Some of what you say I can relate to.. I said at the time of the Cameron deal..that as long it did not affect the 2021 draft.. yet come draft time we traded out ..for a player that for them moment at least is of questionable worth. The club mke the call fair enough.. but come next year Im sure we will be wishing we had the r1 pick ..no matter how good Holmes looks.

My main wish for the draft was a ruck ..and we brought in two .. so our weeks list role has been massaged. The next replacements we need are for Selwood and Hawkins ... and unless we get into the early part of the draft I doubt we do it in draft.

I cant agree on small forwards.. I think we have more than enough, we just delisted Tarca after two ears of development. Perhaps they thought not up to it.

Having lost Fogarty I'd think a young inside mid might have been more the way to go. I think id have bid on Macinnes, maybe have call Odriscoll or Carroll but there you go... time will tell. Probably means more is expected from Stephens.

The player we brought in thru trade... we will just see what it does. Certainly they must perform from day1

I think Higgins will probably be an improvement over a 36 year old Ablett, Camerons best form has to be an add. Smith as a FA ..cost only dollars.

In the end what we have done lives and dies with on field results. Win a flag and no matter the success for next decade still probably makes the trades justified.
We probably have two years to make our choices work.
 
BigCat1 said:
Some of this is simply not true. Higgins was not a free agent last season. It’s a myth. He extended by one year to the end of 2021 but we would have had to trade prob even more as he was contracted for 2020. Eg you could have kissed goodbye 27 which we turned into 11 on draft night that was critical this year.

In the end it was Higgins + 47 for Fogerty and 41. So the net trade was Fogerty and a 6 pick slide. Make of that what you will. Fogerty would have been playing 2s next year and would have lost him for zero anyway.

You make no mention of Cockatoo for 33.
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We traded fogarty to Carlton and received pick 30 in the trade. We traded picked 30 directly for Higgins. That's poor value for his age.

I thought we got a future 3rd for cockatoo which is all we could ask for and is a ok outcome.
 

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Turbocat said:
Some of what you say I can relate to.. I said at the time of the Cameron deal..that as long it did not affect the 2021 draft.. yet come draft time we traded out ..for a player that for them moment at least is of questionable worth. The club mke the call fair enough.. but come next year Im sure we will be wishing we had the r1 pick ..no matter how good Holmes looks.

My main wish for the draft was a ruck ..and we brought in two .. so our weeks list role has been massaged. The next replacements we need are for Selwood and Hawkins ... and unless we get into the early part of the draft I doubt we do it in draft.

I cant agree on small forwards.. I think we have more than enough, we just delisted Tarca after two ears of development. Perhaps they thought not up to it.

Having lost Fogarty I'd think a young inside mid might have been more the way to go. I think id have bid on Macinnes, maybe have call Odriscoll or Carroll but there you go... time will tell. Probably means more is expected from Stephens.

The player we brought in thru trade... we will just see what it does. Certainly they must perform from day1

I think Higgins will probably be an improvement over a 36 year old Ablett, Camerons best form has to be an add. Smith as a FA ..cost only dollars.

In the end what we have done lives and dies with on field results. Win a flag and no matter the success for next decade still probably makes the trades justified.
We probably have two years to make our choices work.
Click to expand...
The comment about small forwards is more reflective of where this draft is at. More likely to find serviceable small forwards late in this draft.

Disagree about the small forwards comment as well. Miers is the only true small forward in the team. Tarca doesn't play small, dalhlause doesn't hit the scoreboard, same with close. With Cameron and Hawkins, another true goal kicking small forward will round off the team nicely.

Don't mind getting a couple of rucks as well.
 
Warhorse said:
We traded fogarty to Carlton and received pick 30 in the trade. We traded picked 30 directly for Higgins. That's poor value for his age.

I thought we got a future 3rd for cockatoo which is all we could ask for and is a ok outcome.
Click to expand...

Did you see Fogarty playing much in 2021? He had one year left on contract... so once out of contract what does he do if again denied chances. Ialso thinthere is a chance SC comes into their choices.. we lose Fog and his money .. and how much of Higgins are we paying for? Not sure but it would not surprise me if NM keep a large chunk of 2021.
 
Turbocat said:
Did you see Fogarty playing much in 2021? He had one year left on contract... so once out of contract what does he do if again denied chances. Ialso thinthere is a chance SC comes into their choices.. we lose Fog and his money .. and how much of Higgins are we paying for? Not sure but it would not surprise me if NM keep a large chunk of 2021.
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That's fair. I don't have an issue with getting rid of fogarty. I just don't like what we paid for higgins. If North Melbourne are paying a huge chunk than that is better
 
Turbocat said:
Sometimes highlights display attributes , sometimes they dont ... Holmes highlights packages were interesting in the sense that I was waiting for the highlights. Id say Neales vid showed more .. but I will wait and see what we have , the package if MOC probably showed him doing stuff in his Irish game for example.
For the moment id agree our team must something that we are not seeing on the highlights package ..
Click to expand...

There were two or three “moments” in the APS game that looked far more promising than the TAC vision. But if that’s the sum total of what he’s displayed over the past two years it’s a very speculative pick, particularly when we’ve traded a future first. Anyway, time will tell. At least athletically there’s not going to be much to hold him back.
 
Warhorse said:
We traded fogarty to Carlton and received pick 30 in the trade. We traded picked 30 directly for Higgins. That's poor value for his age.

I thought we got a future 3rd for cockatoo which is all we could ask for and is a ok outcome.
Click to expand...
So you’re taking the approach in 2020 that the net result somehow doesn’t count. I noticed you just glossed over the Higgins FA stuff. What would I have traded last year?

Selectively saying 30 was actually 36 in the “real” world. I still maintain the net result of Higgins was Fogerty + 6 pick slide on the 40s now it’s all said and done. Neither over or unders for mine.

Would have liked Pick 20 for our Ess F 2nd but hardly a disaster. We still have 3 under 40 next year. Hopefully the difference between those pick next year in less than 5 players. If Holmes was in our top 8-12 this year then it’s good pick. There is no way he was making it to 33. He was going to Melb with the next pick. If we kept 15 (18) this year then the result would have been the same. if we kept our pick 20 (which was 25) then we would not have got him.
 
Would of been interesting to see if Henry Walsh choose to train with Geelong instead of choosing Carlton this time last year, would of Geelong choose him instead of Neale :think: .
Dont get me wrong im glad we choose Neale, but did Geelong think " Well you had the chance to train with us but you decided to go to Carlton, so we will go after Neale now "
 
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