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Tigers fans will see the other side of equalisation soon enough.

I thought the Hawks would be up and about in the finals for a long time, especially with stars Gunston, Bruest, Rioli still having heaps of years left after the 3peat. Then of course players like Duryea starring in a PFšŸ¤•šŸ¤•

Not apples and apples but I think once Cotch and Martin go the team will drop a fair bit.
 
Jason mp said:
Age in brackets. IMO very strong back and forward although a bit light on for mid depth, Jarryd Lyons & Lachie Neale both have a good 3-5 years left though, I have confidence the likes of Starcevich/Rayner/Cockatoo/Robertson can step up as future mids.

Noah Answerth(21), Harris Andrews(23), Callum Ah Chee(23).
Brandon Starcevich(21), Jack Payne(21), Darcy Gardiner(25).

Oscar McInerney(26), Jarrod Berry(22), Hugh McCluggage(22).
Zac Bailey(21), Deven Robertson(19), Tom Joyce(20).

Cameron Rayner(21), Daniel McStay(25), Charlie Cameron(26).
Joe Daniher(26), Eric Hipwood(23), Keidean Coleman(20).

Tom Fullarton(21), Nakia Cockatoo(24), Rhys Matheison(23), Tom Berry(20).
Click to expand...

Thatā€™s a cracking lineup


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B: Redman - Zerk-Thatcher - Francis
HB: Ridley - Reid - Hind
C: Langford - Parish - Merrett
HF: Smith - Stewart - Stringer
F: Jones - Wright - Mosquito
R: Draper - McGrath - Caldwell
I/C: Cox - Perkins - Guelfi - Snelling
 

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B: Perez - McKay - McDonald
HB: Young - Corr (26) - Hayden
C: Scott - Anderson (26) - Dumont
R: Xerri - LDU - Simpkin
HF: Zurhaar - Comben - Stephenson
FF: Taylor - Larkey - Turner
I/C: Thomas - Phillips - W. Walker - Bonar (defence)

Very short down back and we lack kpp depth. Xerri and Comben are also very raw. The grunt is there and the class is pretty good, but could be better. Same with speed and spread.
 
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almuz said:
Tigers fans will see the other side of equalisation soon enough.

I thought the Hawks would be up and about in the finals for a long time, especially with stars Gunston, Bruest, Rioli still having heaps of years left after the 3peat. Then of course players like Duryea starring in a PFšŸ¤•šŸ¤•

Not apples and apples but I think once Cotch and Martin go the team will drop a fair bit.
Click to expand...
Agree. Thatā€™s just the natural cycle of things. Glad we have walked away with 3 flags during our time at the top. Collingwood, Geelong, GWS would see the same time as a missed opportunity.

Bulldogs and Brisbane look like the next generation teams coming through.
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
Yep you could probably trade those two firsts for an early first and get the currency it cost you to find one of Prestia, Cotchin or Martin but even then itā€™s doubtful any club would do that trade.
If it was that easy bottom clubs would just turn their early first into two late firsts, their early second into two late seconds etc.
Click to expand...

Since 2014, Richmond have drafted the following players who look like being stars with picks in the range we have next year or later in the draft order, or rookie draft etc:

Look like being bona fide stars 3

Short, Bolton, Balta.

Also players who are already consistently very good 3

Graham(reportedly got offers in $600kpa range at 22yo before re-signing) Baker, Lambert.

And players who are proven repeatedly to stand up in big games in their roles

Rioli, Castagna, Broad, Pickett.

Players who have shown genuinely good signs or look on track for decent careers:

Stack(talent wise at least,) Ross, Soldo.

Too early to judge but a big surprise if some donā€™t turn out good:

Collier-Dawkins, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Martyn, Ralphsmith, Cumberland.

Looking limited so far but could prove useful:

Chol, Miller, Garthwaite, Aarts

That is what the Richmond Tigers have produced from 18 picks activated in first, second third rounds, mainly all in the mid-low range for the round the pick is taken. Only 10 of the picks were top 40 and only 3 were top 20, none above 15.

And next year the Richmond Tigers expect to have picks around 19, 20, 30, 35, 40. Half as many top 40 picks in what is expected to be a super strong draft for depth, that the club has activated in the period the above players were brought to the club through drafts. When you look at the above list you would give them every chance to find about two very good players including a potential star, and adding a couple more players capable of long and fruitful careers.
 
Last edited:
Meteoric Rise said:
Since 2014, Richmond have drafted the following players who look like being stars with picks in the range we have next year or later in the draft order, or rookie draft etc:

Look like being bona fide stars 3

Short, Bolton, Balta.

Also players who are already consistently very good 3

Graham(reportedly got offers in $600kpa range at 22yo before re-signing) Baker, Lambert.

And players who are proven to stand up in big games in their roles repeatedly

Rioli, Castagna, Broad, Pickett.

Players who have shown genuinely good signs or look on track for decent careers:

Stack(talent wise at least,) Ross, Soldo.

Too early to judge but a big surprise if some donā€™t turn out good:

Collier-Dawkins, Coleman-Jones, Dow, Martyn, Ralphsmith, Cumberland.

Looking limited so far but could prove useful:

Chol, Miller, Garthwaite, Aarts

That is what the Richmond Tigers have produced from 18 picks activated in first, second third rounds, mainly all in the mid-low range for the round the pick is taken. Only 10 of the picks were top 40 and only 3 were top 20, none above 15.

And next year the Richmond Tigers expect to have picks around 19, 20, 30, 35, 40. Half as many top 40 picks in what is expected to be a super strong draft for depth, that the club has activated in the period the above players were brought to the club through drafts. When you look at the above list you would give them every chance to find about two very good players including a potential star, and adding a couple more players capable of long and fruitful careers.
Click to expand...
I think you guys have been brilliant at finding players I just donā€™t think you will be able to find that absolute top end. As you say, Short, Bolton and Balta are great players. My worry is short is a BF and Bolton a mid/fwd who looks more like a possible top 40-60 type player not a truly elite one. You probably need to find another half a dozen Balta types who are either KPFā€™s or Mids. The toughest part of any list build.

I think it is possible you can stay up, just extremely unlikely. I actually look at Hawthorn and see what they were trying to do. They knew finding the core mids etc is an extremely tough job so they went all out to get them by trading. Their problem is they havenā€™t been able to recruit anywhere near as well as Richmond late in the draft to fill all the other minor holes. Also look at Geelong getting Cameron compared to Lynch at Richmond. A little bit of dumb luck like that will also be vital. On Geelong they are the one club who could prove you right, what they have managed to do is amazing. The thing is though looking through the majority of the other sides sides that have been posted, Richmond seem to be a fair way behind on top end talent in the age group mentioned.
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
I think you guys have been brilliant at finding players I just donā€™t think you will be able to find that absolute top end. As you say, Short, Bolton and Balta are great players. My worry is short is a BF and Bolton a mid/fwd who looks more like a possible top 40-60 type player not a truly elite one. You probably need to find another half a dozen Balta types who are either KPFā€™s or Mids. The toughest part of any list build.

I think it is possible you can stay up, just extremely unlikely. I actually look at Hawthorn and see what they were trying to do. They knew finding the core mids etc is an extremely tough job so they went all out to get them by trading. Their problem is they havenā€™t been able to recruit anywhere near as well as Richmond late in the draft to fill all the other minor holes. Also look at Geelong getting Cameron compared to Lynch at Richmond. A little bit of dumb luck like that will also be vital. On Geelong they are the one club who could prove you right, what they have managed to do is amazing. The thing is though looking through the majority of the other sides sides that have been posted, Richmond seem to be a fair way behind on top end talent in the age group mentioned.
Click to expand...

I agree with you re the difficulty finding the absolute cream players, like in our case Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt. I think I did a study that showed on average drafts produce around 6-8 elite players per year. So clubs can maybe expect to find one of these guys every second or third draft on average, and obviously the teams who go first in the drafts get the best chance of securing these players.

Letā€™s just look for eg at the 2012 AFL Draft and Rookie draft. 6 players.

You might say Whitfield, Macrae, Grundy, Hunter, Rampe, Viney are the only players who once matured have consistently produced elite level footy, and a couple of those maybe be lucky to be on that list.

2011 7 players.

Coniglio, Haynes, Toby Greene, Taylor Adams, Tom Mitchell, Lachie Neale, Laird.

You might also argue with a couple of those but that is about the most that I could define as elite in terms of the type of players you are talking about.

2010 8 players.

Gaff, Prestia, Lynch, Brodie Smith, Isaac Smith, Parker, Johannisen, McGovern.

At any given time there is probably around 60-70 of that level of players operating in the AFL would be my guess.

Grand Finalists in the last few years, players operating around that level over the course of that season:

2020

Short, Grimes, Martin, Stewart, Duncan, Menegola, Hawkins, Dangerfield

2019

Grimes, Houli, Prestia, Martin, Lynch, Edwards, Haynes, Kelly, Whitfield, Cameron, Greene

2018

McGovern, Yeo, Darling, Kennedy, Shuey, Howe, Pendlebury, Treloar, DeGoey, Grundy, Sidebottom, Adams?

2017

Laird, Sloane, Cameron, Betts, Crouch & Crouch? Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Martin, Houli, Edwards.

2016

Rampe, Kennedy, McVeigh, Parker, Franklin, Mitchell, Hanneberry, Johannisen, Wood, Bontempelli, Liberatore, Stringer?

So if my lists above are right(educated guesses really) then we could make the following points:

- you donā€™t necessarily normally need more than about 5 players operating at that level to play in a Grand Final

- 2020 shows you donā€™t necessarily need that many

- it is not necessarily true a team gets 5 elite players and those guys remain constant over a number of seasons whilst you contend.

And when you look at the above lists, a group like Bolton, Balta, Short could be a terrific start to building the pool of about 6-7 players capable of this level that you need to find to be a Grand Finalist. Especially given there could conceivably already be a fourth young one on the list and there are possibly up to 2-3 seasons to find some more to keep contending and 4-5 seasons to find them to possibly return quickly to contending.

The Tigers have a super list of young players given the picks they have been limited to. Such that even two seasons of missing finals after this era passes with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Edward, Houli could be enough to re-stock the elite cupboard from the draft.

The interesting thing is on my lists of elite level players in recent Grand Final teams, more than 20 of them were either brought in from another club or drafted below pick 40 in the draft. Only about 16 were top 10 picks drafted by the club for whom they played in the Grand Final. So the Tigers(or any other club) has plenty of scope to get the requisite group together.
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
I think you guys have been brilliant at finding players I just donā€™t think you will be able to find that absolute top end. As you say, Short, Bolton and Balta are great players. My worry is short is a BF and Bolton a mid/fwd who looks more like a possible top 40-60 type player not a truly elite one. You probably need to find another half a dozen Balta types who are either KPFā€™s or Mids. The toughest part of any list build.

I think it is possible you can stay up, just extremely unlikely. I actually look at Hawthorn and see what they were trying to do. They knew finding the core mids etc is an extremely tough job so they went all out to get them by trading. Their problem is they havenā€™t been able to recruit anywhere near as well as Richmond late in the draft to fill all the other minor holes. Also look at Geelong getting Cameron compared to Lynch at Richmond. A little bit of dumb luck like that will also be vital. On Geelong they are the one club who could prove you right, what they have managed to do is amazing. The thing is though looking through the majority of the other sides sides that have been posted, Richmond seem to be a fair way behind on top end talent in the age group mentioned.
Click to expand...

Bolton will only get to a top 40-60 player? hahah he was already that at 21 years of age and he will only get better

Also, i understand what youre saying but its also because you have no idea about our youngins who havent had the chance to show what they have due to how dominant we have been.

You'll see more of them this year, and your opinion will change. Trust me.

RCD, Ross, Dow, Martyn, Cumberland, MRJ, Ralphsmith, CCJ, Stack (if he screws his head on correctly)......... keep an eye out

Mids arent an issue for us, we have plenty who could be very solid and even stars. Its KPP that we need some young guns in, but with 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of a much better draft next year we can either draft them or we can use our draft hand to acquire established talent.
 
DontArgue4 said:
Bolton will only get to a top 40-60 player? hahah he was already that at 21 years of age and he will only get better

Also, i understand what youre saying but its also because you have no idea about our youngins who havent had the chance to show what they have due to how dominant we have been.

You'll see more of them this year, and your opinion will change. Trust me.

RCD, Ross, Dow, Martyn, Cumberland, MRJ, Ralphsmith, CCJ, Stack (if he screws his head on correctly)......... keep an eye out

Mids arent an issue for us, we have plenty who could be very solid and even stars. Its KPP that we need some young guns in, but with 6 picks in the first 3 rounds of a much better draft next year we can either draft them or we can use our draft hand to acquire established talent.
Click to expand...
Every club has a list of young players like that. I love Bolton but he averaged less then a goal a game and about 15 touches in his fourth season. To be in the top 40 players itā€™s pretty much averages out to the two best players at every club. He doesnā€™t look anything like that.


Meteoric Rise said:
I agree with you re the difficulty finding the absolute cream players, like in our case Martin, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt. I think I did a study that showed on average drafts produce around 6-8 elite players per year. So clubs can maybe expect to find one of these guys every second or third draft on average, and obviously the teams who go first in the drafts get the best chance of securing these players.

Letā€™s just look for eg at the 2012 AFL Draft and Rookie draft. 6 players.

You might say Whitfield, Macrae, Grundy, Hunter, Rampe, Viney are the only players who once matured have consistently produced elite level footy, and a couple of those maybe be lucky to be on that list.

2011 7 players.

Coniglio, Haynes, Toby Greene, Taylor Adams, Tom Mitchell, Lachie Neale, Laird.

You might also argue with a couple of those but that is about the most that I could define as elite in terms of the type of players you are talking about.

2010 8 players.

Gaff, Prestia, Lynch, Brodie Smith, Isaac Smith, Parker, Johannisen, McGovern.

At any given time there is probably around 60-70 of that level of players operating in the AFL would be my guess.

Grand Finalists in the last few years, players operating around that level over the course of that season:

2020

Short, Grimes, Martin, Stewart, Duncan, Menegola, Hawkins, Dangerfield

2019

Grimes, Houli, Prestia, Martin, Lynch, Edwards, Haynes, Kelly, Whitfield, Cameron, Greene

2018

McGovern, Yeo, Darling, Kennedy, Shuey, Howe, Pendlebury, Treloar, DeGoey, Grundy, Sidebottom, Adams?

2017

Laird, Sloane, Cameron, Betts, Crouch & Crouch? Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Martin, Houli, Edwards.

2016

Rampe, Kennedy, McVeigh, Parker, Franklin, Mitchell, Hanneberry, Johannisen, Wood, Bontempelli, Liberatore, Stringer?

So if my lists above are right(educated guesses really) then we could make the following points:

- you donā€™t necessarily normally need more than about 5 players operating at that level to play in a Grand Final

- 2020 shows you donā€™t necessarily need that many

- it is not necessarily true a team gets 5 elite players and those guys remain constant over a number of seasons whilst you contend.

And when you look at the above lists, a group like Bolton, Balta, Short could be a terrific start to building the pool of about 6-7 players capable of this level that you need to find to be a Grand Finalist. Especially given there could conceivably already be a fourth young one on the list and there are possibly up to 2-3 seasons to find some more to keep contending and 4-5 seasons to find them to possibly return quickly to contending.

The Tigers have a super list of young players given the picks they have been limited to. Such that even two seasons of missing finals after this era passes with Cotchin, Riewoldt, Edward, Houli could be enough to re-stock the elite cupboard from the draft.

The interesting thing is on my lists of elite level players in recent Grand Final teams, more than 20 of them were either brought in from another club or drafted below pick 40 in the draft. Only about 16 were top 10 picks drafted by the club for whom they played in the Grand Final. So the Tigers(or any other club) has plenty of scope to get the requisite group together.
Click to expand...


I would look at your finals and who were actually vital to you winning. Imo itā€™s still your older players.
 
Old Stuckup said:
B: Redman - Zerk-Thatcher - Francis
HB: Ridley - Reid - Hind
C: Langford - Parish - Merrett
HF: Smith - Stewart - Stringer
F: Jones - Wright - Mosquito
R: Draper - McGrath - Caldwell
I/C: Cox - Perkins - Guelfi - Snelling
Click to expand...

Jeez that is a ordinary list when you have to include 3 18yr olds that have been at the club for less than a week and include 27yr old Smith in the side.
 
Feeling pretty confident about our squad moving forward.

B: Ling - Melican - O'Riordan
HB: Mills - McCartin - Dawson
C: Campbell - Stephens - McInerney
HF: Heeney - Blakey - Hayward
F: Papley - McDonald - Wicks
FOL: McLean - Florent - Rowbottom
INT: Wicks - Hewitt - Gulden - Gould
Depth - Warner, Clarke, Foot, Ronke, Bell, Amartey

Think we desperately need a developing ruckman and another inside midfielder (Maybe Mills moves to becoming a full time mid?), but moving forward we do have most positions covered on the ground just have to hope our draftees kick on.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Look like being bona fide stars 3

Short, Bolton, Balta.
Click to expand...

Balta is a key post, the other two aren't really guys you build a side around. It's a bit like Isaac Smith & Bruest both being great players in that Hawthorn side during their best seasons, but not really being the players that carry the team on their shoulders.

I can't see any of those guys replacing the heavy lifting of a Martin for example, in the same way that Hawthorn never really found someone that could replace what Hodge did.

Meteoric Rise said:
Rioli
Click to expand...

Surely you jest.
 

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owen87 said:
Balta is a key post, the other two aren't really guys you build a side around. It's a bit like Isaac Smith & Bruest both being great players in that Hawthorn side during their best seasons, but not really being the players that carry the team on their shoulders.

I can't see any of those guys replacing the heavy lifting of a Martin for example, in the same way that Hawthorn never really found someone that could replace what Hodge did.



Surely you jest.
Click to expand...

You think Rioli hasnā€™t repeatedly stood up in big games in his role? Ok. I suggest you do yourself a favour and watch a replay of all the Tigersā€™ finals over the last four seasons, and then find me a small forward who has done well in more finals in that time. And then comment. Plus you get the massive bonus of getting to re-watch 10 great Tiger finals wins. šŸ˜

If Bolton was on the open market now there is no chance someone doesnā€™t cough up a top 8 pick for him. He was about the youngest in his draft and still building his tank but watch the GF again and watch him closely. He did some brilliant work.

Short as a B & F in a Premiership team and I think runner-up Norm Smith Medallist, played a massive GF and had a great season and is a weapon who seems to have overcome what were some pretty clear weaknesses to become a really well rounded player.

You donā€™t need 5 champions and 17 role players. Every edge any player can get over his opponent helps the team and these guys are winning contests and doing massive damage with the spoils.
 
Bonz said:
Feeling pretty confident about our squad moving forward.

B: Ling - Melican - O'Riordan
HB: Mills - McCartin - Dawson
C: Campbell - Stephens - McInerney
HF: Heeney - Blakey - Hayward
F: Papley - McDonald - Wicks
FOL: McLean - Florent - Rowbottom
INT: Wicks - Hewitt - Gulden - Gould
Depth - Warner, Clarke, Foot, Ronke, Bell, Amartey

Think we desperately need a developing ruckman and another inside midfielder (Maybe Mills moves to becoming a full time mid?), but moving forward we do have most positions covered on the ground just have to hope our draftees kick on.
Click to expand...
Are your back 3 AFL level players in 2-3 years?
I'm not sure.
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
Every club has a list of young players like that. I love Bolton but he averaged less then a goal a game and about 15 touches in his fourth season. To be in the top 40 players itā€™s pretty much averages out to the two best players at every club. He doesnā€™t look anything like that.





I would look at your finals and who were actually vital to you winning. Imo itā€™s still your older players.
Click to expand...

Amongst our older players are some truly great players and they were mostly great in the GF. But our group of young players is better and deeper than an average Grand Finalist, I am pretty confident that is correct. This is pretty clearly shown by us being able to unload players like Ellis, Butler, Conca who have gone elsewhere and done really well without any drop in performance.

At the end of the GF if you watch the final term players like Prestia, Lambert, Castagna, Rioli, Bolton were just spreading hard both ways and it was they who sealed the Catā€™s fate properly from what was a winnable position at 3/4 time otherwise. The Cats were able to match our stars to 3/4 time but couldnā€™t match our runners late.

You are not going to understand why Richmond wins by referring to stats like 15 touches and a goal a game. Bolton did massive damage to the Cats in the GF. He just has to further build his tank a bit, and he strolls into the best 50 in the competition. You know the esteem in which he is held when you hear other recruiters like Matt Rendell trying to claim they liked him and wanted to draft him.

The other point that every other club has a group of young players like that is not quite right. Some just donā€™t. But not many teams who are truly in contention for flags have a better list of youngsters than Richmond. Who knows where that positions us post Cotchin etc, but I think we will surpise a lot of people judging by comments here.
 
U26 Side Best 22 Collingwood
FB Maynard - Keane - Murphy
HB Quaynor - Moore - Noble
C Dacios - Sier - T Brown
HF McInnes - Kelly - Wilson
FF Roscoe - McMahon - McCeery
Foll Grundy - De Goey - Macrae
Bench C Brown - Poulter - Bianco - Rantall
'
This team looks scary.
 
GoldenMagpie16 said:
U26 Side Best 22 Collingwood
FB Maynard - Keane - Murphy
HB Quaynor - Moore - Noble
C Dacios - Sier - T Brown
HF McInnes - Kelly - Wilson
FF Roscoe - McMahon - McCeery
Foll Grundy - De Goey - Macrae
Bench C Brown - Poulter - Bianco - Rantall
'
This team looks scary.
Click to expand...
The forward line looks terrible
The mids average also
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You think Rioli hasnā€™t repeatedly stood up in big games in his role? Ok. I suggest you do yourself a favour and watch a replay of all the Tigersā€™ finals over the last four seasons, and then find me a small forward who has done well in more finals in that time. And then comment. Plus you get the massive bonus of getting to re-watch 10 great Tiger finals wins. šŸ˜

If Bolton was on the open market now there is no chance someone doesnā€™t cough up a top 8 pick for him. He was about the youngest in his draft and still building his tank but watch the GF again and watch him closely. He did some brilliant work.

Short as a B & F in a Premiership team and I think runner-up Norm Smith Medallist, played a massive GF and had a great season and is a weapon who seems to have overcome what were some pretty clear weaknesses to become a really well rounded player.

You donā€™t need 5 champions and 17 role players. Every edge any player can get over his opponent helps the team and these guys are winning contests and doing massive damage with the spoils.
Click to expand...

I think if his surname wasnā€™t Rioli, no one would think twice about him. And heā€™d likely have played half the games he has.

Again, much like Smith and Breust. Bolton and Baker are good players, but theyā€™re not the guys youā€™ll build a team around.
 
owen87 said:
I think if his surname wasnā€™t Rioli, no one would think twice about him. And heā€™d likely have played half the games he has.

Again, much like Smith and Breust. Bolton and Baker are good players, but theyā€™re not the guys youā€™ll build a team around.
Click to expand...

Bolton is, absolute star
 
almuz said:
Tigers fans will see the other side of equalisation soon enough.

I thought the Hawks would be up and about in the finals for a long time, especially with stars Gunston, Bruest, Rioli still having heaps of years left after the 3peat. Then of course players like Duryea starring in a PFšŸ¤•šŸ¤•

Not apples and apples but I think once Cotch and Martin go the team will drop a fair bit.
Click to expand...
Martin has 4 maybe 5 years left and Cotchin perhaps 2 more

Richmond has introduced 3 players this year that have been amazing in Balta , Baker & Bolton as well as Richmond embracing the draft unlike Hawthorn

Names that other clubs supporters wont know that are depth and all under 22/23
Ross , Ralph-Smith , Martyn , Cumberland , Dow , Collier-Dawkins ,Coleman-Jones , Naish , Miller , Garthwaite , Nyuon

Some of these players are banging down the door but just need a chance to show their game and they are VFL premiers
We have added another Rioli and a 20 year old Ruckman this year and have 6 top 40 picks next year with 2 x 1st rounders and 2 x 2nd rounders

Very different to how the hawks have fallen away
 
HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
Every club has a list of young players like that. I love Bolton but he averaged less then a goal a game and about 15 touches in his fourth season. To be in the top 40 players itā€™s pretty much averages out to the two best players at every club. He doesnā€™t look anything like that.



.
Click to expand...

No Thats incorrect

Richmonds list of youngsters won the VFL premiership and have been top VFL team last 3 years along side the AFL team.
 
owen87 said:
I think if his surname wasnā€™t Rioli, no one would think twice about him. And heā€™d likely have played half the games he has.

Again, much like Smith and Breust. Bolton and Baker are good players, but theyā€™re not the guys youā€™ll build a team around.
Click to expand...
Do your self a favor and watch the clip - His name didnt play these games
Rioli is a match winner and if not for him we wouldnt have won the Prelim against GWS to get us into the GF

 
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