Society/Culture What makes a man a man?

[Evolved1]

I think the question is silly because over history and through culture, it becomes utterly meaningless to depict manliness or masculinity with any real clarity.

If you're asking what makes a hypothetical person (or myself) feel like a man, then you're going to get thousands of completely different responses, most of which correspond with what makes said individual feel good. Yelling at the umpires while watching the footy on television makes me feel like a man, but also like a dickhead; making bets I'm going to regret while I'm drunk makes me feel like a man; the act of getting drunk, trying to write fiction, doing both simultaneously, having sex, hitting a 4, throwing a punch, getting kicked in the head, getting to the ball first, running someone out, kicking a goal; all of these make me feel like a man, yet none of them are uniquely male experiences. Moana Hope or Tayla Harris could make a case for most of them.

What they depict is more your cultural situation and context more than anything to do really with your gender.

The question is dumb, in the same way a finger painting is dumb.

Provoking someone to the point that they lose control of their emotions and resort to threats/fantasies of violence pleases me. I'm not sure if you'd call it masculinity, but it does give me a sense of emotional superiority.

 

[Toump Ass]

On this, they are all absolutely factors that affect outcomes (if not intelligence directly), but they are all well outside the control of a child. So yes - it's not just genetics that make a difference - but the lottery analogy is still accurate.

Absolutely agree.

Getting to the crux of my original point though, the idolisation of physical strength as a characteristic of what it is to be male (IMO), along with other stereotypically male characteristics (aggression etc) can lead to some horrible outcomes.

 

[ShanDog]

Absolutely agree.

Getting to the crux of my original point though, the idolisation of physical strength as a characteristic of what it is to be male (IMO), along with other stereotypically male characteristics (aggression etc) can lead to some horrible outcomes.

It can, of course. Those same stereotypical negative behaviours can on their own too.

That's why there's 9 other items on the list there

 

[ferball]

Provoking someone to the point that they lose control of their emotions and resort to threats/fantasies of violence pleases me. I'm not sure if you'd call it masculinity, but it does give me a sense of a completely misplaced sense of emotional superiority.

There you go.

 

[Evolved1]

Absolutely agree.

Getting to the crux of my original point though, the idolisation of physical strength as a characteristic of what it is to be male (IMO), along with other stereotypically male characteristics (aggression etc) can lead to some horrible outcomes.

Do we idolise aggression in men? I'm not so sure about that.

Physical strength is viewed as a sign of masculinity, but constrained strength.

Society idolises the sensitive and kind man who takes roids...like Tte Rock.

 

[Evolved1]

There you go.

In the context of public forums and shitposting amongst the plebs, a win is a win.

 

[ferball]

I think the question is silly because over history and through culture, it becomes utterly meaningless to depict manliness or masculinity with any real clarity.

If you're asking what makes a hypothetical person (or myself) feel like a man, then you're going to get thousands of completely different responses, most of which correspond with what makes said individual feel good. Yelling at the umpires while watching the footy on television makes me feel like a man, but also like a dickhead; making bets I'm going to regret while I'm drunk makes me feel like a man; the act of getting drunk, trying to write fiction, doing both simultaneously, having sex, hitting a 4, throwing a punch, getting kicked in the head, getting to the ball first, running someone out, kicking a goal; all of these make me feel like a man, yet none of them are uniquely male experiences. Moana Hope or Tayla Harris could make a case for most of them.

What they depict is more your cultural situation and context more than anything to do really with your gender.

The question is dumb, in the same way a finger painting is dumb.

I just noticed none of those things that make you feel like a man are actually things you need to be an adult to do, with the possible exception of sex but we all kids (ie post pubescent non aduults) get to all sorts of shenanigans on their own. Or at least aren't really adult things.

Like taking responsibility for something, building or making something, being independent etc etc.

And its not just you, i'm not having a go, alot of the stuff in this thread isn't necessarily adult behaviour. Technically getting drunk is an adult passtime because of laws about buying booze but again we all got pissed as kids too, well the vast majority of us at least a couple of times.

 

[ferball]

In the context of public forums and shitposting amongst the plebs, a win is a win.

Fair point.

 

[Hoops]

1. Parallel park
2. Instill wisdom to your kids on how to play sports even if you were s**t at it or never played

​

I think that's pretty comprehensive​

 

[Seeds]

Do we idolise aggression in men? I'm not so sure about that.

Physical strength is viewed as a sign of masculinity, but constrained strength.

Society idolises the sensitive and kind man who takes roids...like Tte Rock.

Real men are on team austin. The rock is for hipsters.

 

[Seeds]

women will always defend their own kid no matter what he/she has done.

a man has the ability to recognize that sometimes his own kid was the arse**hole and in the wrong.

and yes we are generalizing chief.

 

[Seeds]

An exhaustive list of what makes a man a man:
1. Being of the male sex of species homo sapien.

An exhaustive list of what makes a man a good/ideal man:
1. Being physically strong
2. Standing up for what you believe
3. Always being interested in learning
4. A certain degree of stoicism in the face of adversity
5. Treating others the way you would like to be treated
6. Having a hobby you are passionate about
7. Respecting the past without being beholden to it
8. Always being on guard against letting hubris bring you down
9. Compassion for those who aren't as fortunate as you
10. Raising your children to observe the above.

(Note: the above ten points are not exclusively male attributes)

These lists are definitively true and if you disagree, you are wrong.
View attachment 1027568

Thats actually a pretty decent list

 

[Seeds]

Masculine activities (as opposed to feminine), rational behavior (as opposed emotional), dominant demeanor (as opposed to submissive). That and a penis.

jk rowling agrees with you.

on that topic thinking harry potter is childish and boring is also manly.

I think the question is silly because over history and through culture, it becomes utterly meaningless to depict manliness or masculinity with any real clarity.

If you're asking what makes a hypothetical person (or myself) feel like a man, then you're going to get thousands of completely different responses, most of which correspond with what makes said individual feel good. Yelling at the umpires while watching the footy on television makes me feel like a man, but also like a dickhead; making bets I'm going to regret while I'm drunk makes me feel like a man; the act of getting drunk, trying to write fiction, doing both simultaneously, having sex, hitting a 4, throwing a punch, getting kicked in the head, getting to the ball first, running someone out, kicking a goal; all of these make me feel like a man, yet none of them are uniquely male experiences. Moana Hope or Tayla Harris could make a case for most of them.

What they depict is more your cultural situation and context more than anything to do really with your gender.

The question is dumb, in the same way a finger painting is dumb.

you are thinking in absolutes. Think in probabilities or distributiions. Actions of Manliness isnt defined by no women being good or enjoying it. It can be defined as a far greater proportion of men being capable/enjoying it then women.

 

[Gethelred]

I think your post demonstrates why the question is such a good one TBH.

I think the fact that the subject matter is a wholesale illusion to be a problem with everyone who does not see it.

 

[ShanDog]

I think the fact that the subject matter is a wholesale illusion to be a problem with everyone who does not see it.

How do the biological and personality differences between males and females come into your thinking on this?

 

[Gethelred]

How do the biological and personality differences between males and females come into your thinking on this?

People are people. Gender's a spectrum. People exist on the spectrum. People are who they say they are with their actions.

Biology's a set of plumbing.

 

[ShanDog]

People are people. Gender's a spectrum. People exist on the spectrum. People are who they say they are with their actions.

Biology's a set of plumbing.

Going to have to strongly disagree, as does the science here. There are undeniable physiological differences between men and women, as there are also general differences in personalities.

That's different to gender, of course, but that's what makes the question about what makes a man a man an interesting one IMO.

 

[ferball]

There is this:



I haven't watched it and I'm not gonna.

 

[ferball]

And this, which i have watched.

 

[RobbieK]

women will always defend their own kid no matter what he/she has done.

a man has the ability to recognize that sometimes his own kid was the arse**hole and in the wrong.

and yes we are generalizing chief.

So it is ok to post sexist nonsense if you are being self aware about it?

 

[Gethelred]

Going to have to strongly disagree, as does the science here. There are undeniable physiological differences between men and women, as there are also general differences in personalities.

That's different to gender, of course, but that's what makes the question about what makes a man a man an interesting one IMO.

???

How does the science disagree with the notion that biological differences are precisely that, and are as meaningful in a gender context as a bag of chips?

People are who they are. Gender - as with all constructs/illusions - doesn't matter awfully.

 

[ShanDog]

???

How does the science disagree with the notion that biological differences are precisely that, and are as meaningful in a gender context as a bag of chips?

People are who they are. Gender - as with all constructs/illusions - doesn't matter awfully.

Of course they are meaningful.

Men are larger and stronger than women, have greater levels of testosterone, are prone to different biologically-driven behaviour etc etc. Of course these differences have gender-based ramifications. Sex and gender may be different, but it's absolutely not 100% separate. That's crazy talk.

 

[M Malice]

So it is ok to post sexist nonsense if you are being self aware about it?

The male and female of our species are different physically and psychologically.... there will be outliers of course.

 

[RobbieK]

The male and female of our species are different physically and psychologically.... there will be outliers of course.

The post I was responding to said this:

"women will always defend their own kid no matter what he/she has done. a man has the ability to recognize that sometimes his own kid was the arse**hole and in the wrong."

This is just the same old sexist trope of "women are irrational and men are rational". That is no physical or psychological difference that warrants that belief.

 

[Gethelred]

Of course they are meaningful.

Men are larger and stronger than women, have greater levels of testosterone, are prone to different biologically-driven behaviour etc etc. Of course these differences have gender-based ramifications. Sex and gender may be different, but it's absolutely not 100% separate. That's crazy talk.

I'm going to go with the very scientific nah.

What they are doesn't matter as much as who they are. We spend too much time putting ourselves and other people into categories anyway.