Your clubs 26 and under side

[bh90210fan]

That's the West Coast fan talking there. I honestly don't see it for Carlton, they have Cripps and Walsh then what? Brayshaw, Cerra and Serong look seriously good, Blakely, Tucker and Aish are solid citizens too. They need a couple of key forwards but you're talking as if they have a list as bad as North or Hawthorn

Theyve got one of the best midfielders in the comp in their team to go along with their promising kids and honest citizens. Freos group doesn’t have anyone who’s even copped a tag yet

 

[eth-dog]

Imagine accusing somebody else of bias with the 'that's the West Coast fan talking' and then coming out with this. Lol.

Williams has played what, 4 or 5 games in the middle? Setterfield has 36 games in 4 years and done what? Averaged mid teens disposals? Low clearance numbers? Carlton's biggest issue is the fact that they only have two midfielders of any quality and yet you think their young midfield is better than one of the most promising young midfields in the league? You're kidding yourself.

Theyve got one of the best midfielders in the comp in their team to go along with their promising kids and honest citizens. Freos group doesn’t have anyone who’s even copped a tag yet

Fyfe is as good as Cripps and the rest of Freo's midfield is significantly more promising. Who, outside of Walsh, is anywhere close to as promising as Brayshaw, Cerra and Serong?

 

[bh90210fan]

Williams has played what, 4 or 5 games in the middle? Setterfield has 36 games in 4 years and done what? Averaged mid teens disposals? Low clearance numbers? Carlton's biggest issue is the fact that they only have two midfielders of any quality and yet you think their young midfield is better than one of the most promising young midfields in the league? You're kidding yourself.

Fyfe is as good as Cripps and the rest of Freo's midfield is significantly more promising. Who, outside of Walsh, is anywhere close to as promising as Brayshaw, Cerra and Serong?

Cripps is U26, the fact you need to include Fyfe to make an argument means you’ve already lost. Look at Cerras numbers if you want to play down Setterfields. I’d be surprised if they’re any better, done next to nothing so far. Cripps, Walsh and Williams would murder that Freo group

 

[eth-dog]

Cripps is U26, the fact you need to include Fyfe to make an argument means you’ve already lost. Look at Cerras numbers if you want to play down Setterfields. I’d be surprised if they’re any better, done next to nothing so far. Cripps, Walsh and Williams would murder that Freo group

Is he? Damn, I forgot he was still that young. And no, they wouldn't.

 

[Schulzenfest]

They would easily. Easily. s**t, Cripps and Walsh alone would easily fetch more on the trade table than the Freo trio put together.

 

[Fadge]

For the record then out of interest, what say you Fadge, is Butler an elite small forward on the level of the likes of Cameron, Papley, Ryan and Walters? Or is he an above average small forward who has had his only two really good years playing in new systems in sharply improving teams? Or what?

Nail your colours to the mast on Butler, where are you rating him?

How many elite years have Liam Ryan and Tom Papley produced? More than 2? I wouldn't have thought so.

Based on what Butler produced this year, and therefore primarily what I'm basing my assessment on, he is right up there with the elite group.

I had Butler as my second small forward after Ryan in the 2020 AA team, and I'm probably guilty of jumping on the Ryan bandwagon after his unbelievable second half of the season (whereas Butler's body of work for the full season may have actually been better).

Walters plays more midfield time than the other four being discussed, so probably not a like for like comparison.

But you've got to remember this whole discussion started by you saying Rioli is better than Butler. If you've now gone and named four small forwards who you believe are ahead of Butler (and they may well be), by default you're saying Butler is currently number 5 (which would be reasonable, with an opportunity to improve on that in the coming years).

I would actually have Toby Greene as my number 1 small forward, relegating Butler to top 6, but that is still miles ahead of Rioli, who wouldn't be in the top 30.

 

[Rich01]

Losing Higgins to retain Rioli was a downgrade.

A popular view of those who do not watch Richmond games intently. But thank you for your opinion.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Do all of the 'you only don't rate Rioli because you're not paying enough attention to Richmond games' Tigers fans realise that he was dropped twice this year?

Does somebody need to tell Hardwick to pay more attention to Tigers games?

 

[La Dispute]

Williams has played what, 4 or 5 games in the middle? Setterfield has 36 games in 4 years and done what? Averaged mid teens disposals? Low clearance numbers? Carlton's biggest issue is the fact that they only have two midfielders of any quality and yet you think their young midfield is better than one of the most promising young midfields in the league? You're kidding yourself.

Fyfe is as good as Cripps and the rest of Freo's midfield is significantly more promising. Who, outside of Walsh, is anywhere close to as promising as Brayshaw, Cerra and Serong?

I guess time will tell with Williams, but he's dominated finals as a midfielder. Not a stretch to suggest he could jump from being an A-grade rebounding defender to becoming an A-grade mid with exposure in the midfield. Most of his biggest assets - his composure, awareness, pace, kicking are completely transferrable, and it's not as though GWS didn't actively push him up the ground anyway.

Setterfield's played the last two seasons and had a great second half to the year, but you won't get much out of his stats. He's an impact player who senses a moment and sets up scores with his vision around the 50 (there's a couple of classy long range handballs out to Walsh last season few could have executed), and he's got decent goal sense himself.

You can't really compare him with someone like Cerra though, who has essentially got a full of season on him after Setterfield was injured in his second pre-season and only played couple of games in his first year. At worst Setterfield will be a solid B-grader, but his development has been good so far, and I think he will push on again after adding some bulk and spending the majority of last season in the midfield.

Freo's midfield trio are good, and will continue to get better, but I don't think they are that far ahead.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Not many teams have A Grade specialist small forwards. Walters, Cameron, Papley and your Ryan might be about it. No team has two. So our group looks well stocked to me.

I feel like you missed Breust (who always gets forgotten about). If you disagree, my argument is that he actually averages more goals, more goal assists and more tackles than all of the forwards you named. He also gets more of the ball than all bar Walters - who spends much more time in the middle. He also has more AAs than any of those players.

Also, at the risk of sounding biased (I know we are crap at the moment), but we may be the closest to having 2 a graders with Wingard and Breust. You may say that Wingard also plays through the middle but nowhete near as much as Walters who you have included. Small forwards tend to struggle in crap sides though so all of the above may not be all that relevant for the foreseeable.

 

[Yoda_]

Now do it with players that have actually played an AFL game...

Essendon fans keep posting terrible teams, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you think before you post or are you my mother and like the sound of her own voice (posts)??

Seriously man, the delusion is strong. Can you explain how to post a team when a few players haven’t even played many games, if at all.

As owen87 said, can you post a North Melbourne side instead of bitching on other teams


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How many elite years have Liam Ryan and Tom Papley produced? More than 2? I wouldn't have thought so.

Based on what Butler produced this year, and therefore primarily what I'm basing my assessment on, he is right up there with the elite group.

I had Butler as my second small forward after Ryan in the 2020 AA team, and I'm probably guilty of jumping on the Ryan bandwagon after his unbelievable second half of the season (whereas Butler's body of work for the full season may have actually been better).

Walters plays more midfield time than the other four being discussed, so probably not a like for like comparison.

But you've got to remember this whole discussion started by you saying Rioli is better than Butler. If you've now gone and named four small forwards who you believe are ahead of Butler (and they may well be), by default you're saying Butler is currently number 5 (which would be reasonable, with an opportunity to improve on that in the coming years).

I would actually have Toby Greene as my number 1 small forward, relegating Butler to top 6, but that is still miles ahead of Rioli, who wouldn't be in the top 30.

Ok. Fair enough. You have him the 6th best small forward in the AFL. Let’s see where he sits after 2021, his contract year.

I personally don’t have Butler anywhere near those other five - I had forgotten Greene. I understand everyone rating Butler really highly after 2020, he had a fantastic season. I am not trying to downplay his season either, he genuinely produced a lot of high class footy, I just about watched every match. Some people don’t realise he had played pretty close to this level in 2017-18 for the Tigers based on the most obvious metrics for small forwards. And based on those same metrics, Rioli and Castagna were right behind him. During those two seasons(pre Lynch):


Period 1: 2017-18

	Goals + Goal Assists	Tackles	Disposals
Butler	2.1	3.5	11.4
Rioli	1.6	3.5	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.0	10.6

But we get to 2019 with a different dynamic to the forward line with the addition of Lynch as the main forward target:

Period 2: 2019

Butler	1.1	3.9	9
Rioli	1.5	2.8	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.1	14.7

What we see is Rioli and Castagna’s numbers remain stable and Butler dropped away terribly, barring his tackle count, which increased a bit.

Then it wouldn’t be fair to not show the 2020 season story after Butler departed to Saints and Rioli and Castagna remained at the Tigers - let’s add 25% to the figures to adjust for reduced time in matches:

Period 3: 2020

Butler	2.5	4.7	13.6
Rioli	1.1	4.0	12.7
Castagna	1.1	2.75	14.1
Aarts	1.6	3.0	12.0
Bolton(finals only as he played the vast majority forward)	1.9	3.2	18.3

So there are three distinct periods here, each illustrated in a separate table above. When we just look at these three measuring sticks, goals + goal assists, tackles, and disposals, the first thing I notice is the remarkable consistency of the goal + goal assists for Rioli and Castagna. It is uncanny. They are almost identical in this stat in each of the 3 periods, and therefore, overall. There is a bit more variance between them on the other measures, Rioli generally having more tackles and Castagna generally having more disposals. Both have had their ups and downs but overall been quite consistent and comparable in their form, and their roles.

Butler in the first period outstripped both comfortably in goals + goal assists. And in period 3, at a new club, he smashes them in this statistic, more than doubling their output. He beats them for tackles, and is within the same range on disposals.

But what happened in period 2, 2019? Butler clearly dropped way below both his own output for the other periods, and also well below the output of both Castagna and Rioli.

What you seem to be saying is this is an unexplained anomaly that Richmond read incorrectly, leading them to err by allowing him to leave at the end of that season. This is possible in my opinion, but not necessarily probable. Richmond have routinely preferred their two staple small forwards, Rioli and Castagna, through four seasons at every crucial point, over players who have outstripped them for goals + goal assists. Over Butler, over Caddy, over Aarts, over Townsend. And I am pretty sure they would have played them both over the 2019 Bolton if they needed to choose, though not the 2020 Bolton, he is just too good an all round player now.

So do you think there might be some reason Richmond prefer and have preferred this pair to all these guys, including Butler, who have beaten them for goal involvements?

You are looking at them and saying Butler gets involved in more goals therefore he is a better small forward. Oh and also, look at Butler’s tackle count, it shows he is as good or better defensively.

Richmond are clearly looking at other things and placing a different value on these players than you do.

I am saying the odds of them repeatedly getting these decisions wrong on their way to multiple flags looks slim to me. I am deducing this only, but it makes sense to me that the coaches who go over the footage and know game plans intimately, would have a pretty strong idea of who is of what value to them.

If you are correct, the whole AFL has vastly under valued Butler. He was told he was free to go out and find the best offer he could get and the Tigers would facilitate a trade. How generous of them! The Blues looked set to make some sort of decent offer but backed out, a decision which Butler has made look really foolish. The Saints have come in with a two year offer, I would say at no more than $250-300k pa base. You are now saying he is the 6th best small forward in the AFL, which if true should net him a nice 4-5 year x $500k deal after next season.

So if nearly everybody was vastly under-valuing one Richmond small forward based on what he appeared to achieve in the Richmond system….is there maybe a chance people are also under-valuing the two non key forwards that Richmond have consistently shown they have valued the highest, Rioli and Butler? I mean, they just keep picking them over players who have more goal involvements...

 

[Rimmer]

It is a fun thought experiment. Interesting too because most of the best and seasoned players in the AFL are over 25.

It is important to consider the selected under 26 sides should be playing against each other under 26 sides. Sides with a lot of younger players are usually into a rebuild aiming for future success, most will fall short as Richmond did for 37 years.

The Richmond team offered here has a backline that is the almost fully intact triple premiership group. The rest of the group have been schooled on the Richmond game plan and slot in like jigsaw pieces. Most have had lots of game time as we wrestled injuries to high-profile players in the early season for each of the past 2 years.

The X factor is the 'game plan', I am just impressed we have 22 players young enough to use. I think they would still be top 4 and the benchmark.

I do like the Dogs and Lions teams, a genuine threat. GWS on paper still look pretty good ... on paper.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I feel like you missed Breust (who always gets forgotten about). If you disagree, my argument is that he actually averages more goals, more goal assists and more tackles than all of the forwards you named. He also gets more of the ball than all bar Walters - who spends much more time in the middle. He also has more AAs than any of those players.

Also, at the risk of sounding biased (I know we are crap at the moment), but we may be the closest to having 2 a graders with Wingard and Breust. You may say that Wingard also plays through the middle but nowhete near as much as Walters who you have included. Small forwards tend to struggle in crap sides though so all of the above may not be all that relevant for the foreseeable.

I think you make very fair points in your post. Breust is an elite small forward and has been for a long time. Probably because he looks taller on TV than his 184cm I rarely think of him as a small forward, but he genuinely is. Also, during the period the Hawks were more prominent I spent a lot of time out of the country in footy seasons, so those reasons probably explain why I overlooked Breust. Wingard too is unarguable imo if he plays as a small forward. So the Hawks are probably the one club with two genuinely in this category.

It can be very difficult to know exactly how team dynamics affect players and their records. Walters for example you might argue could have an even better record had he not played so much of his career in dour low scoring teams. Yet it can also work the other way as easily, where they might target him with the ball more than other teams who have a wider range of attacking targets might. But you just know regardless players like Walters and Wingard and Charlie Cameron and Liam Ryan are really high end because they can do everything you could possibly ask of an attacking small forward, big grabs, speed, great finishing skills.

Interesting in 2020, I would say only Ryan and Cameron of the elite attacking small forwards played for clubs in the top half of he ladder. Butler too if you include him. Greene, Walters, Papley, Breust and Wingard all turned out for teams in the bottom 9. When you look for really good defensive forwards in the bottom half of the ladder in 2020, they are not very apparent. I do wonder if that tells us something...

 

[Fadge]

Ok. Fair enough. You have him the 6th best small forward in the AFL. Let’s see where he sits after 2021, his contract year.

I personally don’t have Butler anywhere near those other five - I had forgotten Greene. I understand everyone rating Butler really highly after 2020, he had a fantastic season. I am not trying to downplay his season either, he genuinely produced a lot of high class footy, I just about watched every match. Some people don’t realise he had played pretty close to this level in 2017-18 for the Tigers based on the most obvious metrics for small forwards. And based on those same metrics, Rioli and Castagna were right behind him. During those two seasons(pre Lynch):


Period 1: 2017-18

	Goals + Goal Assists	Tackles	Disposals
Butler	2.1	3.5	11.4
Rioli	1.6	3.5	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.0	10.6

But we get to 2019 with a different dynamic to the forward line with the addition of Lynch as the main forward target:

Period 2: 2019

Butler	1.1	3.9	9
Rioli	1.5	2.8	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.1	14.7

What we see is Rioli and Castagna’s numbers remain stable and Butler dropped away terribly, barring his tackle count, which increased a bit.

Then it wouldn’t be fair to not show the 2020 season story after Butler departed to Saints and Rioli and Castagna remained at the Tigers - let’s add 25% to the figures to adjust for reduced time in matches:

Period 3: 2020

Butler	2.5	4.7	13.6
Rioli	1.1	4.0	12.7
Castagna	1.1	2.75	14.1
Aarts	1.6	3.0	12.0
Bolton(finals only as he played the vast majority forward)	1.9	3.2	18.3

So there are three distinct periods here, each illustrated in a separate table above. When we just look at these three measuring sticks, goals + goal assists, tackles, and disposals, the first thing I notice is the remarkable consistency of the goal + goal assists for Rioli and Castagna. It is uncanny. They are almost identical in this stat in each of the 3 periods, and therefore, overall. There is a bit more variance between them on the other measures, Rioli generally having more tackles and Castagna generally having more disposals. Both have had their ups and downs but overall been quite consistent and comparable in their form, and their roles.

Butler in the first period outstripped both comfortably in goals + goal assists. And in period 3, at a new club, he smashes them in this statistic, more than doubling their output. He beats them for tackles, and is within the same range on disposals.

But what happened in period 2, 2019? Butler clearly dropped way below both his own output for the other periods, and also well below the output of both Castagna and Rioli.

What you seem to be saying is this is an unexplained anomaly that Richmond read incorrectly, leading them to err by allowing him to leave at the end of that season. This is possible in my opinion, but not necessarily probable. Richmond have routinely preferred their two staple small forwards, Rioli and Castagna, through four seasons at every crucial point, over players who have outstripped them for goals + goal assists. Over Butler, over Caddy, over Aarts, over Townsend. And I am pretty sure they would have played them both over the 2019 Bolton if they needed to choose, though not the 2020 Bolton, he is just too good an all round player now.

So do you think there might be some reason Richmond prefer and have preferred this pair to all these guys, including Butler, who have beaten them for goal involvements?

You are looking at them and saying Butler gets involved in more goals therefore he is a better small forward. Oh and also, look at Butler’s tackle count, it shows he is as good or better defensively.

Richmond are clearly looking at other things and placing a different value on these players than you do.

I am saying the odds of them repeatedly getting these decisions wrong on their way to multiple flags looks slim to me. I am deducing this only, but it makes sense to me that the coaches who go over the footage and know game plans intimately, would have a pretty strong idea of who is of what value to them.

If you are correct, the whole AFL has vastly under valued Butler. He was told he was free to go out and find the best offer he could get and the Tigers would facilitate a trade. How generous of them! The Blues looked set to make some sort of decent offer but backed out, a decision which Butler has made look really foolish. The Saints have come in with a two year offer, I would say at no more than $250-300k pa base. You are now saying he is the 6th best small forward in the AFL, which if true should net him a nice 4-5 year x $500k deal after next season.

So if nearly everybody was vastly under-valuing one Richmond small forward based on what he appeared to achieve in the Richmond system….is there maybe a chance people are also under-valuing the two non key forwards that Richmond have consistently shown they have valued the highest, Rioli and Butler? I mean, they just keep picking them over players who have more goal involvements...

A lot of waffle here to say Butler had one bad year (2019), a year in which he was afforded 7 senior games.

Butler continues his form from 2020 next season, and that would absolutely be the type of contract he would demand. All-Australian level small forwards don't grow on trees...

 

[Boristown]

Do you think before you post or are you my mother and like the sound of her own voice (posts)??

Seriously man, the delusion is strong. Can you explain how to post a team when a few players haven’t even played many games, if at all.

As owen87 said, can you post a North Melbourne side instead of bitching on other teams


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm delusional because I think Essendon's U26 group is a dumpster fire? I think you'll find my opinion isn't exactly controversial outside of the Essendon nuffs on BF.

 

[owen87]

I'm delusional because I think Essendon's U26 group is a dumpster fire? I think you'll find my opinion isn't exactly controversial outside of the Essendon nuffs on BF.

I'm shocked to see you posting about Essendon again. Shocked.

How's that North U26 group going, or do you only have comments on Essendon? We sell memberships you know, you're welcome to contribute financially for the amount of interest and engagement you seem to have.

 

[owen87]

Ok. Fair enough. You have him the 6th best small forward in the AFL. Let’s see where he sits after 2021, his contract year.

I personally don’t have Butler anywhere near those other five - I had forgotten Greene. I understand everyone rating Butler really highly after 2020, he had a fantastic season. I am not trying to downplay his season either, he genuinely produced a lot of high class footy, I just about watched every match. Some people don’t realise he had played pretty close to this level in 2017-18 for the Tigers based on the most obvious metrics for small forwards. And based on those same metrics, Rioli and Castagna were right behind him. During those two seasons(pre Lynch):


Period 1: 2017-18

	Goals + Goal Assists	Tackles	Disposals
Butler	2.1	3.5	11.4
Rioli	1.6	3.5	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.0	10.6

But we get to 2019 with a different dynamic to the forward line with the addition of Lynch as the main forward target:

Period 2: 2019

Butler	1.1	3.9	9
Rioli	1.5	2.8	11.9
Castagna	1.6	3.1	14.7

What we see is Rioli and Castagna’s numbers remain stable and Butler dropped away terribly, barring his tackle count, which increased a bit.

Then it wouldn’t be fair to not show the 2020 season story after Butler departed to Saints and Rioli and Castagna remained at the Tigers - let’s add 25% to the figures to adjust for reduced time in matches:

Period 3: 2020

Butler	2.5	4.7	13.6
Rioli	1.1	4.0	12.7
Castagna	1.1	2.75	14.1
Aarts	1.6	3.0	12.0
Bolton(finals only as he played the vast majority forward)	1.9	3.2	18.3

So there are three distinct periods here, each illustrated in a separate table above. When we just look at these three measuring sticks, goals + goal assists, tackles, and disposals, the first thing I notice is the remarkable consistency of the goal + goal assists for Rioli and Castagna. It is uncanny. They are almost identical in this stat in each of the 3 periods, and therefore, overall. There is a bit more variance between them on the other measures, Rioli generally having more tackles and Castagna generally having more disposals. Both have had their ups and downs but overall been quite consistent and comparable in their form, and their roles.

Butler in the first period outstripped both comfortably in goals + goal assists. And in period 3, at a new club, he smashes them in this statistic, more than doubling their output. He beats them for tackles, and is within the same range on disposals.

But what happened in period 2, 2019? Butler clearly dropped way below both his own output for the other periods, and also well below the output of both Castagna and Rioli.

What you seem to be saying is this is an unexplained anomaly that Richmond read incorrectly, leading them to err by allowing him to leave at the end of that season. This is possible in my opinion, but not necessarily probable. Richmond have routinely preferred their two staple small forwards, Rioli and Castagna, through four seasons at every crucial point, over players who have outstripped them for goals + goal assists. Over Butler, over Caddy, over Aarts, over Townsend. And I am pretty sure they would have played them both over the 2019 Bolton if they needed to choose, though not the 2020 Bolton, he is just too good an all round player now.

So do you think there might be some reason Richmond prefer and have preferred this pair to all these guys, including Butler, who have beaten them for goal involvements?

You are looking at them and saying Butler gets involved in more goals therefore he is a better small forward. Oh and also, look at Butler’s tackle count, it shows he is as good or better defensively.

Richmond are clearly looking at other things and placing a different value on these players than you do.

I am saying the odds of them repeatedly getting these decisions wrong on their way to multiple flags looks slim to me. I am deducing this only, but it makes sense to me that the coaches who go over the footage and know game plans intimately, would have a pretty strong idea of who is of what value to them.

If you are correct, the whole AFL has vastly under valued Butler. He was told he was free to go out and find the best offer he could get and the Tigers would facilitate a trade. How generous of them! The Blues looked set to make some sort of decent offer but backed out, a decision which Butler has made look really foolish. The Saints have come in with a two year offer, I would say at no more than $250-300k pa base. You are now saying he is the 6th best small forward in the AFL, which if true should net him a nice 4-5 year x $500k deal after next season.

So if nearly everybody was vastly under-valuing one Richmond small forward based on what he appeared to achieve in the Richmond system….is there maybe a chance people are also under-valuing the two non key forwards that Richmond have consistently shown they have valued the highest, Rioli and Butler? I mean, they just keep picking them over players who have more goal involvements...

Jesus Christ.

Your love affair with a guy who's in the 18 - 22 range of your side is something to behold.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

A lot of waffle here to say Butler had one bad year (2019), a year in which he was afforded 7 senior games.

Butler continues his form from 2020 next season, and that would absolutely be the type of contract he would demand. All-Australian level small forwards don't grow on trees...

Afforded 7 senior games? You would have played him more matches I am guessing? Despite him being clearly outperformed by three separate small forwards at Richmond...

Butler was rubbish in 2019, for whatever reason who knows. But the Tigers were sufficiently unimpressed to let him walk. And in case you haven’t noticed, he is not an All Australian. Or maybe Butler’s manager indicated he wanted to seek more opportunity or a bigger contract than the Tigers were offering.

But that is Butler, he is gone from Richmond and thus not truly a part of the discussion regarding their under 26 team. Rioli and Castagna remain. Why do you think Rioli and Castagna may have been preferred over a string of other forward options who had more goal involvements than them and roughly as many tackles and disposals as them when played in Richmond’s forward line? Butler, Caddy, Townsend, Aarts, maybe Bolton to a point in his career.

Does this not point fairly obviously to Rioli and Castagna providing something in their roles that is not apparent to commentators, TV viewers, and the general run of footy followers? Or have the Richmond selectors and list management team consistently got this wrong in your opinion?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Jesus Christ.

Your love affair with a guy who's in the 18 - 22 range of your side is something to behold.

Why are you so annoyed by someone giving facts and opinions on a person who was up for discussion on this thread?

And if Rioli(and Castagna) are 18-22 range why would they have been selected in 12 consecutive finals without missing one?

The truth is they are nailed on best 22 at Richmond, and because you don’t understand why you assume the club is over-rating them. You would not have any idea whatsoever what Richmond’s order of merit is when it comes to selecting their teams, and to be fair, neither would I.

All we can say is the odds of a true fringe player getting selected in 12 consecutive finals without being left out once are very slim.

You and others have me over-rating Rioli. You are going by a few obvious metrics to support this. I am merely following a fairly orthodox line of reasoning to make a simple statement about Rioli, that he would likely be best 22 at every club in the AFL. I get my cue from the Richmond selectors who have preferred him(and Castagna) in his role even as a string of others have come and gone recording more goal involvements.

So if you actually disagree with the statements I am making about Rioli(rather than the ones you are attributing me with,) you are highly likely disagreeing with the Richmond brain’s trust. And from my position, taking cues from them seems eminently more sensible than taking cues from you, with all due respect to you.

 

[#gosaintas]

Rioli is borderline best 22 at richmond as his regular appearances in the 2s prove. He has that surname and that's about it.

 

[Boristown]

I'm shocked to see you posting about Essendon again. Shocked.

How's that North U26 group going, or do you only have comments on Essendon? We sell memberships you know, you're welcome to contribute financially for the amount of interest and engagement you seem to have.

North's U26 group sucks almost as much as Essendon's.

Seriously, this backline (outside of Ridley) wouldn't look out of place in a 6 goal defeat at the hands of Coburg.

B A.Francis B.Zerk-Thatcher M.Guelfi
HB J.Ridley Z.Reid M.Redman

 

[nick1408]

Rioli is borderline best 22 at richmond as his regular appearances in the 2s prove. He has that surname and that's about it.

I think that's a bit of hyperbole. Daniel Rioli has played five games in the seconds total. Even adding the three games he missed this year it's still only a possible total of eight seconds games. Not really regular matches in the seconds at all.

For what it's worth; I would have kept Butler over Castagna. I always felt he offered more (and still do). Whether he is an A grader or not... I don't think so but in their time at Richmond statistically all three were similar and something had to give. I don't think you would come across a Richmond supporter who didn't think Butler would flourish at St Kilda, the debate was probably where his ceiling is.

 

[eth-dog]

North's U26 group sucks almost as much as Essendon's.

Seriously, this backline (outside of Ridley) wouldn't look out of place in a 6 goal defeat at the hands of Coburg.

B A.Francis B.Zerk-Thatcher M.Guelfi
HB J.Ridley Z.Reid M.Redman

Francis, Zerk and Redman have regularly dominated the VFL and beaten some of the best forwards there. Essendon's lost one game to Coburg since going stand alone by under a goal and have an average winning margin of about 45-50 points against them. They've also been part of finals every year since 2015.

North however haven't made finals since going stand alone and hadn't made finals since 2015 when they were in alignment with Werribee... Though keep swinging and missing though, it's very entertaining

 

[owen87]

someone giving facts

This is where we disagree.

I just don't post thousands of words of fan fiction in the process.