VIC fans - merge, relocate or relegate?

[Taylor]

IMO
The AFL, no.
The (restored) VFL, yes.

It mightn't be as big as the AFL (salary cap lower, etc), but it'd still be the no1 comp in the country.

To reverse your question, could the AFL survive without Vic?
Could WA/SA/NSW/QLD/Tas(?)/NT(?)/??? form an effective league? and would it be able to compete with the VFL?

I think it would come down to who has the money to pay the players.

If the AFL was withdrawn and smaller leagues filled the role I expect an AFL Premier League would be started, probably as state of origin sides at first but able to sign players from anywhere for their six to eight week competition.

If the money on offer for that is better than the club's have available to pay players in local leagues then I think the players jump ship to the premier league.

Except now the top level has fewer teams, each side has a far higher quality of player packing it out, the running costs of that league are smaller due to not having to support traditional/heritage/legacy clubs that aren't able to support themselves.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Players would follow the money, what if Stokes, Rinehart and Forrest decide to be major sponsors of the non Vic comp and outbid every single player deal for players to play in the national comp. Then invite 4 clubs from Victoria to join. Wouldn't that be a whirlwind. Tongue in cheek also.

They would be sinking money into a loss unless they had media companies willing to pay. You couldn't invite any existing Vic clubs as their names, colours etc are all owned by the AFL. So they would have to be new conglomerate sides ala West Coast and Adelaide. So then you're basically banking that Vics would desert their historic clubs like the WCE and Adelaide supporters did when their clubs joined the VFL/AFL. I'd wager most Vic supporters would continue supporting their own clubs in the VFL (Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne, Hawthorn etc) rather than a new franchise in an NFL (the Southern Stars or some such nonsense).

 

[Carringbush2010]

IMO
The AFL, no.
The (restored) VFL, yes.

It mightn't be as big as the AFL (salary cap lower, etc), but it'd still be the no1 comp in the country.

To reverse your question, could the AFL survive without Vic?
Could WA/SA/NSW/QLD/Tas(?)/NT(?)/??? form an effective league? and would it be able to compete with the VFL?

This is what I was pretty much getting at in my reply post.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Players would follow the money, what if Stokes, Rinehart and Forrest decide to be major sponsors of the non Vic comp and outbid every single player deal for players to play in the national comp. Then invite 4 clubs from Victoria to join. Wouldn't that be a whirlwind. Tongue in cheek also.

Well that would be more of an IF then my restored VFL thought.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

And that was a sponsorship of the Coburg Lions by the Fitzroy Football Club, three years after Fitzroy was removed from the AFL. I went along to Coburg's games quite a lot during 1999-2000.

How did Fitzroy manage to get the coin up to get that sponsorship going? Did they still own the Albion Charles then?

 

[Roylion]

How did Fitzroy manage to get the coin up to get that sponsorship going? Did they still own the Albion Charles then?

They did. Brisbane failed to win a court battle to take over the Hotel. Fitzroy also started taking memberships again from 1998 onwards.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

They did. Brisbane failed to win a court battle to take over the Hotel. Fitzroy also started taking memberships again from 1998 onwards.

Oh cool. When did it stop being the Roys social club? Wish it still was, it's a hole now.

 

[pablo668]

Going down the hypothetical route of the Vic clubs leaving the AFL and it being the VFL again, you'd definitely still need caps and drafts and the like to save the clubs from themselves spending wise.
If that were to happen, would they keep Sydney or Brisbane? Former VFL clubs? (in name at least)

 

[Roylion]

Oh cool. When did it stop being the Roys social club? Wish it still was, it's a hole now.

About 2001.

 

[Roylion]

Going down the hypothetical route of the Vic clubs leaving the AFL and it being the VFL again, you'd definitely still need caps and drafts and the like to save the clubs from themselves spending wise.
If that were to happen, would they keep Sydney or Brisbane? Former VFL clubs? (in name at least)

Brisbane isn't a former VFL club.

 

[terrybull]

Woodville and West Torrens have had what could be called a pretty successful and equitable merger. Both share the name. West Torrens Eagles mascot. Play at Woodville's home ground. Torrens only ever won 4 flags, the last in 1953 and Woodville hadn't ever even made a GF.
Since the merger in 1991 they've won 4 flags and come runners up 7 times.
Prosperous mergers are possible, particularly for 2 historically poor clubs.

In a way Brisbane could have been a near Perfect merger as Woodville-West Torrens.
Maybe a bit much to ask to be called Brisbane-Fitzroy but the Bears getting name and home ground while the Fitzroy getting the jumper and moniker.

Both teams nearly had the same colours to begin with, and I think in time Fitzroy would have ditched the red and back to their original maroon.

For an outside observer one can be forgiven to think that the Bears folded and Fitzroy moved up northto replace them. So fthe Fitzroy spirit lives on in the AFL. Despite trying embrace this, I probably will never be as fond of them as before. I really don’t have a second team anymore.
So it’s Tigers 100% now!
In 1981 my alligence turned 60% Lions, 40% Tigers.

 

[Roylion]

In a way Brisbane could have been a near Perfect merger as Woodville-West Torrens.

The only problem was that such a merger was against Fitzroy's will and it was interstate with limited opportunities for supporters and members to see the club play.

The Melbourne Lions or the Footscray Lions would have been better.

Maybe a bit much to ask to be called Brisbane-Fitzroy but the Bears getting name and home ground while the Fitzroy getting the jumper and moniker.

Both teams nearly had the same colours to begin with, and I think in time Fitzroy would have ditched the red and back to their original maroon.

Fitzroy still haven't done that 25 years after they left the AFL

For an outside observer one can be forgiven to think that the Bears folded and Fitzroy moved up northto replace them.

Except neither happened. Fitzroy are still in Melbourne. Brisbane Bears changed their name to the Brisbane Lions.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Well that would be more of an IF then my restored VFL thought.

It’s all fantasy talk, the vic clubs are not going to kick the non vic clubs out. The non Vic clubs ain’t going to leave unless they know it would be the dominant comp. you need those billionaires to do that.
So we have the AFL.

 

[terrybull]

The only problem was that such a merger was against Fitzroy's will and it was interstate with limited opportunities for supporters and members to see the club play.

The Melbourne Lions or the Footscray Lions would have been better.



Fitzroy still haven't done that 25 years after they left the AFL



Except neither happened. Fitzroy are still in Melbourne. Brisbane Bears changed their name to the Brisbane Lions.

If Fitzroy remained in the AFL think they would have gone back to maroon like Melbourne went back to navy blue.

I don’t think they ever will in the VAFA because most fans grew up with the lighter colour plus they merged with University Reds.

A merger should be 50/50 if possible, to avoid a take-over. I wonder how the outcome would have been if the suggested team was called Fitzroy-Footscray Ridgebacks (Lion dogs) with an equal proportional mix of the jumper playing out in the Western Oval. You could still had the ionic FF on the jumper.

I know neither happened but I said for the uneducated it looks this way. If I was in coma from 1990 and awoke today I would assume that Fitzroy did a South Melbourne and Bears moved to Gold Coast and became the Suns.

Then I go on bigfooty to be educated by RoyLion and shatter my illusion

I tried hard to believe Fitzroy was Brisbane... but I can’t and now understand why many Fitzroy fans don’t follow Brisbane Lions

 

[Pessimistic]

Why just VIC clubs?

 

[Roylion]

If Fitzroy remained in the AFL think they would have gone back to maroon like Melbourne went back to navy blue.

I disagree.

I don’t think they ever will in the VAFA because most fans grew up with the lighter colour plus they merged with University Reds.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Fitzroy (University) Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883).

The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company and football club.

By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883) then replaced the Fitzroy [University] Reds in D-Grade [Premier D] VAFA.

Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in the AFL in 1996, automatically became chairman of the Club in the VAFA.

A merger should be 50/50 if possible, to avoid a take-over. I wonder how the outcome would have been if the suggested team was called Fitzroy-Footscray Ridgebacks (Lion dogs) with an equal proportional mix of the jumper playing out in the Western Oval. You could still had the ionic FF on the jumper.

1989's proposed "Fitzroy Bulldogs" playing in Fitzroy's colours and jumpers out of Princes Park may have been far more palatable to Footscray's supporters had it been the "Footscray Lions", playing in Fitzroy's colours and a FFC jumper out at the Western Oval. Footscray would have kept keep their name and the training base (possibly the home ground) at the Western Oval instead of Princes Park, while Fitzroy would have had the mascot and the colours. The jumper might have been Fitzroy's red and blue jumper with a white Fitzroy FFC logo and possibly white horizontal stripes to evoke Fooscray's jumper but still primarily in the Fitzroy design). A gold Fitzroy Lion would have been added on the breast of the jumper.

 

[terrybull]

I disagree.



In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Fitzroy (University) Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883).

The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company and football club.

By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883) then replaced the Fitzroy [University] Reds in D-Grade [Premier D] VAFA.

Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in the AFL in 1996, automatically became chairman of the Club in the VAFA.



1989's proposed "Fitzroy Bulldogs" playing in Fitzroy's colours and jumpers out of Princes Park may have been far more palatable to Footscray's supporters had it been the "Footscray Lions", playing in Fitzroy's colours and a FFC jumper out at the Western Oval. Footscray would have kept keep their name and the training base (possibly the home ground) at the Western Oval instead of Princes Park, while Fitzroy would have had the mascot and the colours. The jumper might have been Fitzroy's red and blue jumper with a white Fitzroy FFC logo and possibly white horizontal stripes to evoke Fooscray's jumper but still primarily in the Fitzroy design). A gold Fitzroy Lion would have been added on the breast of the jumper.

Still can’t see why they did not propose the club become Fitzroy-Footscray as it would have kept both names. Or was it not a true merger?

Worked for Woodville-West Torrens which most agree is a successful merger it seems.

 

[terrybull]

I disagree.



In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Fitzroy (University) Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883).

The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company and football club.

By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club (formed 1883) then replaced the Fitzroy [University] Reds in D-Grade [Premier D] VAFA.

Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in the AFL in 1996, automatically became chairman of the Club in the VAFA.



1989's proposed "Fitzroy Bulldogs" playing in Fitzroy's colours and jumpers out of Princes Park may have been far more palatable to Footscray's supporters had it been the "Footscray Lions", playing in Fitzroy's colours and a FFC jumper out at the Western Oval. Footscray would have kept keep their name and the training base (possibly the home ground) at the Western Oval instead of Princes Park, while Fitzroy would have had the mascot and the colours. The jumper might have been Fitzroy's red and blue jumper with a white Fitzroy FFC logo and possibly white horizontal stripes to evoke Fooscray's jumper but still primarily in the Fitzroy design). A gold Fitzroy Lion would have been added on the breast of the jumper.

Glad to hear that it was no merger and Fitzroy are 100% intact. Just wish they were still in the AFL as well.

A question, if someday a die/hard Fitzroy fan becomes president of the AFL and he offers Fitzroy back in the AFL as Canberra Lions. Do you think the club will take up on the offer? Would it bring lost souls?

 

[terrybull]

Almost every Melboune based merger proposal between two Melbourne clubs has been perceived as unequal by at least one set of supporters. Fitzroy and Footscray was sen as heavily weighted towards Fitzroy. Melbourne and Hawthorn was seen as heavily weighted towards Melbourne.

The "Melbourne Lions" could have worked very well.

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View attachment 1035891

Less so maybe the "North Fitzroy Kangaroos".

Tear of the lion and it’s just a Melbourne jumper. Same argument Don Scott had about the Melbourne Hawks proposal.

 

[Roylion]

Tear of the lion and it’s just a Melbourne jumper. Same argument Don Scott had about the Melbourne Hawks proposal.

Fitzroy colours essentially of red, blue and gold (royal blue becomes navy blue), Fitzroy emblem and playing out of the MCG. Melbourne keep the name and the basic design of the jumper.

 

[terrybull]

Why just VIC clubs?

Agree. This should be a question for all fans.

so for example if AFL says only one club in WA, would you prefer to merge and become the West Fremantle Eagles or to relocate or go to WAFL?

 

[Roylion]

A question, if someday a die/hard Fitzroy fan becomes president of the AFL and he offers Fitzroy back in the AFL as Canberra Lions. Do you think the club will take up on the offer? Would it bring lost souls?

No. Where would the money come from?

 

[terrybull]

No. Where would the money come from?

AFL as they did with Gold Coast

Forget all the impossibilities or realities.

If possible, would you take it.

Canberra-Fitzroy Lions based in Canberra?
Brisbane back to the Bears.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Agree. This should be a question for all fans.

so for example if AFL says only one club in WA, would you prefer to merge and become the West Fremantle Eagles or to relocate or go to WAFL?

I’d absorb the Dockers, claim Pav and Fyfe as club greats and....ah well that’s it actually, everything else can stay the same.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Drop down a division . No need to exterminate a club with a 100 years of history.