Play Nice Michael Jordan vs LeBron James

[jod23]

I can criticise his offense, but I put on record when he brings it on the other side of the floor

Your critique of me(my LBJ assessment) is much the same way as folks look at the Champion-Data TedHopkins and box score of Dustin Martin and deduce that Martin got no <tackles> and will not play on his opponent (therefore =\= normsmith calibre) .

Its a Nashian Game Theory at CarnegieMellon interpretation or formula

Dusty will distribute and prioritise his efforts according to his impact on a game. Basketball is a game disproportionately affected by the performance on the offensive play, so LBJ will marshal his intensity to have the greatest influence on the game. Lesser players can be brought in to strengthen Richmond's tackle intensity

I think some of LBJ's ouevre (positive/complimentary) is blown out of proportion re:legacy and status

Just like Oregon marketing department and Nike mythos working hand-in-hand with David Falk made Jordan, so have Maverick Carter and Rich Falk made LeBron

80s to even 90s the debate was if Bird and Magic have surpassed Russell , skipping Wilt

Kyrie Irving and Ray Allen are not fans of LBJ and they played with him and saw him 'every day'

If one has not been an nba pro can one make deduction ,

this is both temporal and hindsight, perhaps Kobe was the best equipped to make judgement, but he threw his baton in the ring too

The Nashian Gametheory lens, I would have loved if LeBron was a 32per game scorer and had the knockdown midrange of Rip Hamilton and Demare DeRozan and Kawhi Leonard(know) then LeBron becomes a 22 and 12(assist) player in latter stages

but I am a simple punter

fidstar don't @ me wrt Embiid and Shaq , you know what I was saying

p'raps Rodman makes a go of job extinguishing Shaq's influence, but those hulking behemoths will be unstoppable* when they are playing their A-game

*asterisk was for potential conflict I make in impressing my argument

Zgope1

I never know what you're arguing. It's just all nonsense.

 

[blackcat]

I never know what you're arguing. It's just all nonsense.

I am not arguing , I am doing the JSMills reverse side of the position , and fleshing out the contentions. .... my favourite players are Penny Taylor and Sarunus Marciulionis

 

[jod23]

I am not arguing , I am doing the JSMills reverse side of the position , and fleshing out the contentions. .... my favourite players are Penny Taylor and Sarunus Marciulionis

Im so confused. Nice shout out for Marciulionis though.

 

[fidstar]

I never know what you're arguing. It's just all nonsense.

This. I have no idea what point you're even trying to get across.

 

[blackcat]

Joe Dumars ?
Michael Cooper ?
Alvin Robertson ?
Vernon Maxwell ?
Ron Harper ?
Sidney Moncrief ?
John Stockton ?

 

[jod23]

Joe Dumars ?
Michael Cooper ?
Alvin Robertson ?
Vernon Maxwell ?
Ron Harper ?
Sidney Moncrief ?
John Stockton ?

This again makes no sense.

You have just listed a bunch of players and then put a video up about Reggie Lewis playing on MJ in one game in like 1988 or something. Flesh it out mate.

Are you trying to say Lewis gave Jordan problems with his defense and what about these other guys that played against him? Like help us out and then maybe we can have a conversation about it.

 

[blackcat]

This again makes no sense.

You have just listed a bunch of players and then put a video up about Reggie Lewis playing on MJ in one game in like 1988 or something. Flesh it out mate.

Are you trying to say Lewis gave Jordan problems with his defense and what about these other guys that played against him? Like help us out and then maybe we can have a conversation about it.

they were tip-top first team All-defense , just showing Len Bias gave MJ fits

Simmons needs to take key from Jrue when he defends guys 40lbs and 6/7 inches on him , so BS does not get ragdolled by Giannis

 

[fidstar]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[jod23]

they were tip-top first team All-defense , just showing Len Bias gave MJ fits

Simmons needs to take key from Jrue when he defends guys 40lbs and 6/7 inches on him , so BS does not get ragdolled by Giannis

I dont know about giving MJ fits. He did block Jordans shot 4 times in that one game but Jordan still had I think 22 points. A bit was made about that game too and of course Jordan took that personally and scored 44 on 61% shooting in the next game against the Celtics.

Not sure why you mentioned Stockton in that other post either, he is a nasty little defender but never guarded Jordan because well he couldnt, the size was just too much. Jordan has said it himself though and said the bloke who gave him the most trouble was Joe Dumars.

Also you said Len Bias, I think you mean Reggie Lewis.

 

[blackcat]

I dont know about giving MJ fits. He did block Jordans shot 4 times in that one game but Jordan still had I think 22 points. A bit was made about that game too and of course Jordan took that personally and scored 44 on 61% shooting in the next game against the Celtics.

Not sure why you mentioned Stockton in that other post either, he is a nasty little defender but never guarded Jordan because well he couldnt, the size was just too much. Jordan has said it himself though and said the bloke who gave him the most trouble was Joe Dumars.

Also you said Len Bias, I think you mean Reggie Lewis.

it was not merely Byron Russell, backcourt defence had to sometimes take a man in transition offence, ofcourse half court MJ isolates and takes Stockton down to the block but this hypothetical is pre-Barcelona in MJs first quarter of his career , pre Russell , when pick and roll was not even core of NBA offended , during inchoate period when he installed and ran Jacksons triangle

 

[blackcat]

Not sure why you mentioned Stockton in that other post either, he is a nasty little defender but never guarded

I mentioned the preeminent backcourt defenders of this (80's) era , but you knew this

I never mentioned the Celtics pointguard Dennis Johnson or phoenix' dan marjele

 

[jod23]

Um... ok.

 

[blackcat]

Um... ok.

if you cannot conceive I am a good-faith interlocutor and provided some recondite information then I can't help you

another element not mentioned is trend to statistics caterpillars (truck) or box score fillers when the boxscore has a zero-sum equilibrium with degrees expansion v restriction pending p.a.c.i.n.g on team strategy and the manifestation of the individual games (I am speaking of you Westbrook)

Jordan and Kobe thought they needed to shoot 50 times a game because they were their teams best offensive choice

LeBron is not their equal on the offensive end but he may be as good as Magic and Stockton as a distributor with an advantage of being a significant offensive threat himself

 

[jod23]

if you cannot conceive I am a good-faith interlocutor and provided some recondite information then I can't help you

another element not mentioned is trend to statistics caterpillars (truck) or box score fillers when the boxscore has a zero-sum equilibrium with degrees expansion v restriction pending p.a.c.i.n.g on team strategy and the manifestation of the individual games (I am speaking of you Westbrook)

Jordan and Kobe thought they needed to shoot 50 times a game because they were their teams best offensive choice

LeBron is not their equal on the offensive end but he may be as good as Magic and Stockton as a distributor with an advantage of being a significant offensive threat himself

Hahaha

 

[fidstar]

I'm not sure if you are an AI trying to show you are human, or someone on LSD.

 

[BigBreakfast]

this is awkward

Nah it’s true. Great players after 1996 would supplant some of these guys. Bron beats out Parish and McHale at the very least. KD too. Dirk, D Wade...

The sport science stuff is interesting. Even the shoes were awful.

 

[BigBreakfast]

You cant be in GOAT conversations though if you cant play both sides of the ball. Even if Steph shot 50% from deep, he's just be considered the greatest shooter of all time (which he already is anyways) but he's a very average defender.

Gotta play both sides of the ball.

Damn man, do you watch? Steph plays better D than he is given credit for. Smart on and off the ball 1.7 spg career and even 4.5 rpg!

 

[BigBreakfast]

Paxson misses that shot in 93, Bulls lose and have to play Phoenix in Phoenix in a Game 7.
Bulls get the rub of the green with two shot clock violation calls in 98, one waves off Eisley’s 3 ball and the other counts Harper’s runner. That’s a 5 point swing in a 1 point game. They lose that and they have to play Utah in Utah in a Game 7.
Those things happen and Jordan is probably 4-2, but just like your LeBron example it’s pointless to argue because it didn’t.

If your Aunty had...

 

[BigBreakfast]

Jrue?

Also you cant count some players and no others. You cant say a bloke can guard all 5 positions, except for Shaq or Embiid. That means he cant defend at C.

LeBron cant defend all 5 spots. Nobody really can.

Rubbish. Bron would be a beast small ball 5 and defend the likes of Embiid as needed. He defends at an elite level when motivated or contextually positioned to. Took it to Giannis just last week! No one really posts up anyway so size is almost irrelevant.

 

[BigBreakfast]

they were tip-top first team All-defense , just showing Len Bias gave MJ fits

Simmons needs to take key from Jrue when he defends guys 40lbs and 6/7 inches on him , so BS does not get ragdolled by Giannis

Clowning Dog. Highlight culture at play. Jordan made all these guys look like fools in the long game. You are all over the damn place!

 

[BigBreakfast]

it was not merely Byron Russell, backcourt defence had to sometimes take a man in transition offence, ofcourse half court MJ isolates and takes Stockton down to the block but this hypothetical is pre-Barcelona in MJs first quarter of his career , pre Russell , when pick and roll was not even core of NBA offended , during inchoate period when he installed and ran Jacksons triangle

???

 

[BigBreakfast]

if you cannot conceive I am a good-faith interlocutor and provided some recondite information then I can't help you

another element not mentioned is trend to statistics caterpillars (truck) or box score fillers when the boxscore has a zero-sum equilibrium with degrees expansion v restriction pending p.a.c.i.n.g on team strategy and the manifestation of the individual games (I am speaking of you Westbrook)

Jordan and Kobe thought they needed to shoot 50 times a game because they were their teams best offensive choice

LeBron is not their equal on the offensive end but he may be as good as Magic and Stockton as a distributor with an advantage of being a significant offensive threat himself

Swallowed a thesaurus (without contextual relevance) but can’t punctuate! I think you make sense in your head...

 

[BigBreakfast]

GOAT

1 Jordan
2 Bron
3 Kareem
4 Magic
5 Shaq
6 Bird
7 Russell
8 Dream
9 Wilt
10 Timmy D

 

[jod23]

Damn man, do you watch? Steph plays better D than he is given credit for. Smart on and off the ball 1.7 spg career and even 4.5 rpg!

He's not a liability on the defensive end which is good. He's not bad, not great, just average.

 

[jod23]

Rubbish. Bron would be a beast small ball 5 and defend the likes of Embiid as needed. He defends at an elite level when motivated or contextually positioned to. Took it to Giannis just last week! No one really posts up anyway so size is almost irrelevant.

You're talking rubbish, Embiid would eat if LeBron was guarding him all game. He's been elite at time over his career but only about half of his career which isnt good enough and it's why he is never spoken about as a defensive stopper or an elite defender and that's why he will never go past Jordan as Jordan was elite on both ends.