VIC fans - merge, relocate or relegate?

[ROORAGE]

Id rather Carlton fold over those clubs to be honest. Wasting space in the 21st century anyway, club cloggers

THIS!!! Hands down the biggest scourge in the competition For the past 20 years, the decade before that they cheated their way to a flag. By far the most reviled, corrupt organisation in the AFL. They are extremely fortunate they have plants in the Media to sell false hope year after year after year. It’s happening again this year. What a joke that rabble of a club is. Another decade of failure looms and with it comes the long anticipated drop off in support. Arrogant pricks. Hope their internal bickering implodes the club. Note, despite their cheating rorting ways they STILL go to the afl for handouts. Funny how that’s not exactly prominent in the media! The best part, it was called the KRUZER CUP, Carlton get their man and Melbourne get pinged for tanking. Work that out!

 

[Kwality]

Tourism NT is a sponsor of the MFC I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but you can check the MFC website if you'd like to verify it.

Dont believe there was any question of whether .... bang for the buck was the question. The big win for Melbourne FC comes from the AFL not NT Tourism (very unlike the Hawks/Tas sponsorship).

 

[Kwality]

I think the maths for what such advertising is worth is pretty flaky,

Advertising spend is multi faceted, not simply making the phone ring/ people shopping on Monday morning like a Coles or Bunnings.
Evaluating advertising has always been a tough ask, I remember talking to my father about the 50s value of neon signs & brand awareness.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Not sure. That sort of thing was never discussed at least to my knowledge because the AFL knocked in back.

It might have been a little like Hawthorn and North Melbourne in Tasmania. However if I was a betting man, my guess is that it would have been eventually something like the Fitzroy Football Club (trading as the "Canberra Lions") and wearing in Canberra what is pretty much the Brisbane Lions jumper (with blue shorts!) and the famous FFC logo on the breast of the jumper. Maybe would have still have worn the FFC jumper in Melbourne with the Fitzroy lion on the breast.



Steaight up the Hume.



Yep. What could have been with a bit more foresight by the Commission. Much less expensive to set up a second NSW side than what has been spent on the Giants too. Maybe played a couple of games in Western Sydney too. After all Fitzroy came very close to relocating to Sydney in 1979.

That would have worked well. I think that's similar to what the Eastlake Demons (trading as the Canberra Demons) were doing in the NEAFL.

With a relocation instead of a merger Fitzroy could have kept much more of their identity. They could have kept the red (I think that's what they still wear in Melbourne?) instead of the maroon. If history had repeated somewhat, we could have had three back-to-back premierships and Aussie Rules would have a big lead in Canberra.

 

[Roylion]

If history had repeated somewhat, we could have had three back-to-back premierships and Aussie Rules would have a big lead in Canberra.

I doubt history would have repeated itself in terms of a three-peat. Brisbane finished 8th, 3rd, 8th, 16th, 4th and 6th from 1995 to 2000 before winning the threepeat. Fitzroy finished 16th, 16th in 1995-1996 and even with a relocation I couldn't see them finishing more than 16th in 1997.

However with more income they could have retained the best from their existing 1995-1996 list and started rebuilding their list through the draft (Michael Gardiner, Travis Johnstone - grandson of Fitzroy champ Norm), priority picks in 1997 and 1998 (Chris Heffernan, Luke Power) trading from other clubs and perhaps accelerated by some zone concessions from NSW-ACT and started to be competitive. This could have enabled Fitzroy to eventually pick up the likes of Cameron Mooney (1997), Josh Wooden (1997), Craig Bolton, Nick Davis, Jarrad and Mark McVeigh, Brent Staker, Taylor Walker, Isaac Heeney etc.

Fitzroy 1998 might have looked something like:

B: Chris Johnson, Stephen Paxman, Rowan Warfe
HB: Simon Hawking, Cameron Mooney, John Barker
C: Travis Johnstone, Simon Atkins, Scott Bamford
HF: Shane Clayton, Jarrod Molloy, John Rombotis,
F: Luke Power, Anthony Mellington, Darren Whieldon
R: Matthew Primus, Brad Boyd, Chris Heffernan
I: Michael Gardiner, Jason Baldwin, Josh Wooden, Brett Chandler

Em: John McCarthy, Jim Wynd, Mark Zanotti,

 

[telsor]

Advertising spend is multi faceted, not simply making the phone ring/ people shopping on Monday morning like a Coles or Bunnings.
Evaluating advertising has always been a tough ask, I remember talking to my father about the 50s value of neon signs & brand awareness.

That's why I added the bit about how people responsible for big budgets seem to think it's worth it...

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Dont believe there was any question of whether .... bang for the buck was the question. The big win for Melbourne FC comes from the AFL not NT Tourism (very unlike the Hawks/Tas sponsorship).

Explain how.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

All clubs should only play home games at their home ground.

MCG
COLL
Rich
Carlton
Hawthorn

Marvel
Ess
Dogs
Saints

Kardinia Park
Geelong

AO
Port
Adel

Optus
West Coast
Freo

SCG
Sydney

Syd Showground
GWS

GABBA
Brisbane

Metricon
Gold Coast

Manuka
Canberra Kangaroos

Bellrieve/Launceston
Tassie Devils

Rolling draw.

Perfect league.

Melbourne will never leave the MCG, we've been playing there for over 160 years.

 

[Papa G]

Melbourne will never leave the MCG, we've been playing there for over 160 years.

Maybe you could move games to the Albert Ground like the cricket club if you got demoted to thd East Coast League or the Ammos.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Still can’t see why they did not propose the club become Fitzroy-Footscray as it would have kept both names. Or was it not a true merger?

Worked for Woodville-West Torrens which most agree is a successful merger it seems.

Mergers are worse than folding.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Maybe you could move games to the Albert Ground like the cricket club if you got demoted to thd East Coast League or the Ammos.

keep dreaming

 

[telsor]

All clubs should only play home games at their home ground.

So places that can't support a team by themselves (NT, Cairns, Canberra) never get to see a live game?

AO
Port
Adel

Surely Port will be playing out of Alberton. (especially after they're relegated back to the SANFL).

 

[juss]

There's also the option of continually calling out corruption and unfairness to the point at which something is forced to be changed.

Corruption lol

 

[juss]

All clubs should only play home games at their home ground.

MCG
COLL
Rich
Carlton
Hawthorn

Marvel
Ess
Dogs
Saints

Kardinia Park
Geelong

AO
Port
Adel

Optus
West Coast
Freo

SCG
Sydney

Syd Showground
GWS

GABBA
Brisbane

Metricon
Gold Coast

Manuka
Canberra Kangaroos

Bellrieve/Launceston
Tassie Devils

Rolling draw.

Perfect league.

Generally the only ones that don't are the Victorian clubs, so they would all be happy to make that change.

Figuratively speaking, Geelong make out with the best of that situation then. The only side in the league with its own unique boutique home stadium and the benefits of reduced travel.

 

[Mr north man]

Easier to just fold Footscray, North Melbourne, Melbourne and St Kilda rather than merge them.

Don’t forget your club no pokie $$$ coming In due to Corona and eventually there will be no Pratt $$$ either in years to come.
Watch what you say could come back on you as your club will be under that much pressure this year to 1 make finals and 2 win a final if this doesn't happen on both accounts questions will be asked.

 

[Roylion]

Mergers are worse than folding.

Define "folding".

If there's a choice between going out of existance completely and merging that preserves the identity of the parent clubs to some degree then I would prefer merging.

I would have supported the following mergers for Fitzroy



Or the Footscray Lions playing out of the Western Oval in this jumper (perhaps with white horizontal stripes)

 

[Carringbush2010]

Define "folding".

If there's a choice between going out of existance completely and merging that preserves the identity of the parent clubs to some degree then I would prefer merging.

I would have supported the following mergers for Fitzroy

View attachment 1038943

Or the Footscray Lions playing out of the Western Oval in this jumper (perhaps with white horizontal stripes)

View attachment 1038947

Disagree, if it's not Collingwood and solely Collingwood then it's not Collingwood.

What you have here is not Fitzroy, Footscray or Melbourne. They're neither, it's a compromise, compromise means not the same.

'Folding' or ceasing to exist, is far better than existing on your knees.

 

[LordLucifer]

Of course they do. But the implication they do it because they "are not big enough to stand on their own" is the fallacy.

 

[Kwality]

Melbourne will never leave the MCG, we've been playing there for over 160 years.

& that is the solitary reason .... the entitlement ...

Disagree, if it's not Collingwood and solely Collingwood then it's not Collingwood.

What you have here is not Fitzroy, Footscray or Melbourne. They're neither, it's a compromise, compromise means not the same.

'Folding' or ceasing to exist, is far better than existing on your knees.

Fine when the decision is academic.
Arent guys like Pendlebury worth following or only IF ......

 

[Roylion]

What you have here is not Fitzroy, Footscray or Melbourne. They're neither, it's a compromise, compromise means not the same.

Of course it's not the same. I've lived through it, so you don't think I know? People are so sure of themselves when they know that their club is in no danger of doing either.

'Folding' or ceasing to exist, is far better than existing on your knees.

That is not necessarily so.

 

[Carringbush2010]

& that is the solitary reason .... the entitlement ...



Fine when the decision is academic.
Arent guys like Pendlebury worth following or only IF ......

The decision isn't 'academic' though, and following Pendles purely to watch doesn't not necessitate me or anyone investing as a paying fan / member for what is essentially a compromised club.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Of course it's not the same. I've lived through it, so you don't think I know? People are so sure of themselves when they know that their club is in no danger of doing either.



That is not necessarily so.

Of course I know you know, luckily for you and Fitzroy fans Fitzroy still exists in it's original form. Not like South Melbourne, as far as I'm aware there is no South Melbourne Swans.

And yes it is necessarily so, it's a compromise meaning it's not the same, it's conceding to accept change for the benefit / necessity / whatever at the expense of your clubs identity.

Be better off not existing at all instead of submitting to defeat to exist.

 

[Roylion]

The decision isn't 'academic' though, and following Pendles purely to watch doesn't not necessitate me or anyone investing as a paying fan / member for what essentially a compromised club.

That is a purely personal decision. For me it’s about how (and if) if the identity of my club is preserved significantly in the new entity. If it is ( and I’ve provided two examples) of how it might, then that is preferable to extinction. It’s easy to be idealistic when it’s your club that is not threatened.

 

[Carringbush2010]

That is a purely personal decision. For me it’s about how (and if) if the identity of my club is preserved significantly in the new entity. If it is ( and I’ve provided two examples) of how it might, then that is preferable to extinction. It’s easy to be idealistic when it’s your club that is not threatened.

Yes it is personal, if compromise if preferable then good for you. What can't be argued is IF any club(s) are merged they are not the same and it IS a concession / compromise. That is admitting a defeat, the idea of competition is to be better than your competition, a merge is a joining of two clubs conceding that the club(s) on it's own is not as good as its competition.

Best to leave it in my book, going by the opinions on these board I'd imagine the majority would not accept a merger.

 

[Roylion]

Of course I know you know, luckily for you and Fitzroy fans Fitzroy still exists in it's original form.

It wasn't luck. It was a lot of hard work. As a Fitzroy shareholder I'm proud to say I personally assisted in Fitzroy's survival and revival between 1997 to the present, but I also know

And yes it is necessarily so, it's a compromise meaning it's not the same, it's conceding to accept change for the benefit / necessity / whatever at the expense of your clubs identity.

Accepting change is better than not existing in any form whatsoever. What the change entails depends on whether I support the new entity.

Be better off not existing at all instead of submitting to defeat to exist.

As I said, it’s easy to be idealistic when it’s your club that is not threatened.

Existing in some form, as part of something new) is far better than not existing at all, such as the...



What's not to like? Merger of two neighbouring suburbs.

In Melbourne, colours, emblem and playing out of the MCG.

This is an article published by Ashley Browne in The Age in 1995 on how a Melbourne - Fitzroy merger might have been like.

More than 60,000 fans bathed in the MCG sunshine yesterday as the AFL’s two newest clubs, the Melbourne Lions and the Port Adelaide Steelers, bounced the ball to start the 1996 season and the leagues centenary celebrations.

Despite a sizeable contingent of Port Adelaide fans – every bit as rabid as their counterparts from Collingwood – all eyes were on the Lions and how the players from the old Melbourne and Fitzroy clubs would meld.

That question was answered during a withering nine goal third quarter burst that broke the game open. Melbourne was outstanding.

Neil Balme, the unanimous coach of the new club has put together an outstanding side. Skipper Gary Lyon booted nine goals for the Lions, while David Schwarz showed no ill-effects from last year’s two knee reconstructions, pulling in eight marks from centre-half forward and booting five goals of his own.

But it was the on-ball brigade of that was the most impressive feature of the new side. Vice captain Brad Boyd amassed 34 possessions while shutting Steeler captain Craig Bradley out of the contest.

Boyd was always the class performer of the old Fitzroy midfield, but yesterday he combined superbly with with Andy Lovell and Stephen Tingay to mesmerise the Steelers. Simon Atkins another of the former Lions, gave great drive from the centre after half time.

By contrast it was a miserable homecoming for Andrew Obst, the sole top ten player the Demons were forced to offload under the rules of the merger. Obst has found happiness with Port Adelaide the club from which he was recruited to Melbourne in 1990, but he was thrashed yesterday by Glenn Lovett.

There was much speculation that the side would be dominated by former Demons. But the Fitzroy contigent, particularly full back Simon Hawking who kept Scott Hodges to one goal and Chris Johnson who has already struck an uncanny understanding with Schwarz and Lyon.

Off the field it was a grand day for the Lions. Marketing manager John Birt reported a brisk sale of membership tickets and estimated that the sales were already approaching 15,000, which means the club will not need to under-write its membership sales, as it would have if the Lions had sold 12,720. (20% more than the 10,500 the Demons sold last year).

"The TV campaign the AFL helped finance has captured our supporters attention. They understand that a membership ticket represents good value, particularly when ours are $20 cheaper than any other club's" said Birt who predicted that with 10 MCG home games still to come, the Lions membership could top 20,000. And he speaks from a position of strength, having handled Collingwood’s membership during the heady days following the 1990 premiership.

Club chairman Dyson Hore-Lacy was ecstatic after the match. “This is why we decided to resume those 1994 negotiations with Melbourne, rather than merge with Brisbane like some at the AFL would have preferred, “ he said.

“We’ve just won a huge game at our new home ground the MCG and the atmosphere was better than anything we experienced at the Western Oval and certainly better than watching it on TV from the Gabba.”

And with that he headed off to celebrate at 'Smithy’s', the new social club at the Junction Oval named after the late Norm Smith, who played for and coached both Melbourne and Fitzroy.

It was built for the Lions with a $700,000 handout from the AFL, which was to be used specifically for the creation of a social club."