Prediction 2021 Best 22

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Jen2310 said:
COLLINGWOOD

B: Brayden Maynard --- Jordan Roughead --- Isaac Quaynor

HB: Jeremy Howe --- Darcy Moore --- Jack Crisp

C: Steele Sidebottom --- Taylor Adams --- Josh Daicos

HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott --- Brody Mihocek --- Jamie Elliott

F: Jordan De Goey --- Mason Cox --- Callum Brown

R: Brodie Grundy --- Scott Pendlebury --- Brayden Sier

Int: Will Kelly --- John Noble --- Chris Mayne --- Tyler Brown

Who’s missing from last season?

Tom Phillips (Hawthorn), Josh Thomas, Jaidyn Stephenson (North), Jack Madgen, Adam Treloar (WB), Darcy Cameron

- NICK SMART




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Click to expand...
The back 6 look good but once you keep scrolling down it’s not pretty.
 
adonski said:
What's the consensus on Sier gents? Locked in?
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Feel like he is a huge piece in our success in next few years. Fills a much needed gap in the midfield if he comes along in terms of age and experience. If he doesnt , we are going to be set back slightly in the mids. With pendles and sidey ageing

Heart says lock , Brain says floats in and out. Hope he finds dedication and application as has the tools to make it
 

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adonski said:
What's the consensus on Sier gents? Locked in?
Click to expand...
Crossroads. I like him and our midfield is pretty thin now so he has opportunity. Given his lack of application in the past it’s possible he could still coast a bit and stay in the 22. We don’t have many young mids in contention currently. Need Sier, the Browns and hopefully a few below them to step up
 
Feel like after a bit of pre-season my best 22 has changed, once again!

FB: Jeremy Howe - Jordan Roughead - Brayden Maynard
HB: Isaac Quaynor - Darcy Moore - Jack Crisp
C: Josh Daicos - Brayden Sier - Nathan Murphy
HF: Steele Sidebottom - Brody Mihocek - Jamie Elliott
FF: Jordan De Goey - Mason Cox - Will Kelly
FOLL: Brodie Grundy - Scott Pendlebury (C) - Taylor Adams (VC)
INT: Jack Madgen - John Noble - Finlay Macrae - Tyler Brown

Veteran depth: Mayne - Greenwood - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott -
Young guys just on the outer: Bianco - Rantall - Wilson - McCreery - Chugg - McInnes
 
gouki88 said:
Feel like after a bit of pre-season my best 22 has changed, once again!

FB: Jeremy Howe - Jordan Roughead - Brayden Maynard
HB: Isaac Quaynor - Darcy Moore - Jack Crisp
C: Josh Daicos - Brayden Sier - Nathan Murphy
HF: Steele Sidebottom - Brody Mihocek - Jamie Elliott
FF: Jordan De Goey - Mason Cox - Will Kelly
FOLL: Brodie Grundy - Scott Pendlebury (C) - Taylor Adams (VC)
INT: Jack Madgen - John Noble - Finlay Macrae - Tyler Brown

Veteran depth: Mayne - Greenwood - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott -
Young guys just on the outer: Bianco - Rantall - Wilson - McCreery - Chugg - McInnes
Click to expand...

Where do you see Madge and Noble playing in that side?
 
gouki88 said:
Feel like after a bit of pre-season my best 22 has changed, once again!

FB: Jeremy Howe - Jordan Roughead - Brayden Maynard
HB: Isaac Quaynor - Darcy Moore - Jack Crisp
C: Josh Daicos - Brayden Sier - Nathan Murphy
HF: Steele Sidebottom - Brody Mihocek - Jamie Elliott
FF: Jordan De Goey - Mason Cox - Will Kelly
FOLL: Brodie Grundy - Scott Pendlebury (C) - Taylor Adams (VC)
INT: Jack Madgen - John Noble - Finlay Macrae - Tyler Brown

Veteran depth: Mayne - Greenwood - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott -
Young guys just on the outer: Bianco - Rantall - Wilson - McCreery - Chugg - McInnes
Click to expand...

I really like Murphy out on that wing. A tall winger type with neat skills would be a great contrast to the smaller Daicos on the other side. Something I wished we tried Shaz in before he was delisted, but would settle for Murphy having a run there.

The forward line is pretty tall, I'd probably look at one of McCreery or Ginnivan at least on the bench to give us a smaller pressure option in there. Ruscoe another option maybe at the expense of one of Kelly/Cox as a medium-size forward with speed? It's exciting that we actually have options and the opportunity to throw different looks at defense's, something we haven't been able to do in a while.
 
jackcass said:
Where do you see Madge and Noble playing in that side?
Click to expand...
I see Madge as the 7th defender, but I feel like he will sadly often be a victim of Howe's return. Think against small forward lines he might not get a game, but he was showing some versatility at the end of the year. With Crisp's ability to be damaging pushing up the field I think he'd be useful.
Noble I would like to see up the ground. He's made awesome strides, but his size alone limits him. We saw him get targeted in the finals. His dash on the wing could be good, and he played all over the joint in the SANFL.

Johno9911 said:
I really like Murphy out on that wing. A tall winger type with neat skills would be a great contrast to the smaller Daicos on the other side. Something I wished we tried Shaz in before he was delisted, but would settle for Murphy having a run there.

The forward line is pretty tall, I'd probably look at one of McCreery or Ginnivan at least on the bench to give us a smaller pressure option in there. Ruscoe another option maybe at the expense of one of Kelly/Cox as a medium-size forward with speed? It's exciting that we actually have options and the opportunity to throw different looks at defense's, something we haven't been able to do in a while.
Click to expand...
Murphy on the wing is my dream for him. Get him to replace Mayne out there as that big winger. Obviously Menegola is a much better player, but we saw how damaging a tall skillful wing can be. I was right there with you on Shaz, especially after his 3rd knee injury.

It's definitely tall. I think McCreery and Kelly could be essentially interchangeable (or maybe I hope that) depending on lineups. Would love to see those young guys get a crack over WHE and Josh Thomas
 
gouki88 said:
Feel like after a bit of pre-season my best 22 has changed, once again!

FB: Jeremy Howe - Jordan Roughead - Brayden Maynard
HB: Isaac Quaynor - Darcy Moore - Jack Crisp
C: Josh Daicos - Brayden Sier - Nathan Murphy
HF: Steele Sidebottom - Brody Mihocek - Jamie Elliott
FF: Jordan De Goey - Mason Cox - Will Kelly
FOLL: Brodie Grundy - Scott Pendlebury (C) - Taylor Adams (VC)
INT: Jack Madgen - John Noble - Finlay Macrae - Tyler Brown

Veteran depth: Mayne - Greenwood - Thomas - Hoskin-Elliott -
Young guys just on the outer: Bianco - Rantall - Wilson - McCreery - Chugg - McInnes
Click to expand...

Surely one of Crisp or Maynard needs to move into the mids?

Our midfield has been in decline for a while and with Treloar and Phillips gone, and Pendles and Sidey another year closer to retirement, we’ll need more than just Murphy and Sier moving in there to turn the ship around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
LuckyLee said:
Surely one of Crisp or Maynard needs to move into the mids?

Our midfield has been in decline for a while and with Treloar and Phillips gone, and Pendles and Sidey another year closer to retirement, we’ll need more than just Murphy and Sier moving in there to turn the ship around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Crisp will play midfield predominantly is my feel.
 
LuckyLee said:
Surely one of Crisp or Maynard needs to move into the mids?

Our midfield has been in decline for a while and with Treloar and Phillips gone, and Pendles and Sidey another year closer to retirement, we’ll need more than just Murphy and Sier moving in there to turn the ship around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Neither of them are trainining with the mids.

The club may have confidence in jordy/sier/Tyler + our draftees.
 
Jen2310 said:
Neither of them are trainining with the mids.

The club may have confidence in jordy/sier/Tyler + our draftees.
Click to expand...

Yikes! I find that troubling. We only have one centre-square midfielder - Adams - at the peak of his powers. Pendles and Sidey are proven stars but their best footy is sadly behind them. JDG, Elliott and Sier are inconsistent and injury-prone, while the rest are speculative and totally unproven. IMO, we’ll need some more damaging big-bodied proven ball-winners with strong fitness bases in there if we want to have a hope of competing with the best midfields in the comp.

Our youngsters are more exciting than I can recall for several years but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that they have the fitness or tactical understanding to hold their own against the Dogs’, Tigers’, Power’s or Weagles’ deep and seasoned midfields (among others).

Consider the Dogs’ midfield - Bontempelli, McRae, Dunkley, Treloar, Smith, Liberatore & Hunter - seven guns. We’re gonna need a lot more than Adams, Pendles, JDG and a bunch of kids to compete with that. For that reason, I think Crisp and/or Maynard must play big midfield minutes this season. And we have some good options to cover them in defence.
 

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LuckyLee said:
Yikes! I find that troubling. We only have one centre-square midfielder - Adams - at the peak of his powers. Pendles and Sidey are proven stars but their best footy is sadly behind them. JDG, Elliott and Sier are inconsistent and injury-prone, while the rest are speculative and totally unproven. IMO, we’ll need some more damaging big-bodied proven ball-winners with strong fitness bases in there if we want to have a hope of competing with the best midfields in the comp.

Our youngsters are more exciting than I can recall for several years but let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that they have the fitness or tactical understanding to hold their own against the Dogs’, Tigers’, Power’s or Weagles’ deep and seasoned midfields (among others).

Consider the Dogs’ midfield - Bontempelli, McRae, Dunkley, Treloar, Smith, Liberatore & Hunter - seven guns. We’re gonna need a lot more than Adams, Pendles, JDG and a bunch of kids to compete with that. For that reason, I think Crisp and/or Maynard must play big midfield minutes this season. And we have some good options to cover them in defence.
Click to expand...

I’d rather we see what Sier, Rantall et al offer.
 
jackcass said:
I’d rather we see what Sier, Rantall et al offer.
Click to expand...

I agree that they should feature but we can’t introduce too many of them into the engine room at once. In any given game, we probably need about eight players to spend some time in the centre square (some much more than others, of course). So that’s:

1. Adams
2. Pendles
3. Sidebottom
4. JDG
5. Sier
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???

If you fill those remaining three spots with T.Brown, Rantall, Reef/McRae, we’re gonna get smashed. No matter how good those youngsters are, there’s just not enough size, experience and fitness base in that eight to compete with the best midfields. We’d be throwing them to the wolves. But with Crisp and/or Maynard in there, it looks much more competitive.



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LuckyLee said:
Pendles and Sidey are proven stars but their best footy is sadly behind them.
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This is far from convincing, certainly Pendles is in career form, by that I mean his consistency has not waned. Consistent high possession winner and consistently good as any currently reading the ball / play (there will never nor has been any player that can read play like this guy IMO).

There is no known universe ANYONE could argue he has 'past' it.

Sides, ok, played how many games in 2020? His best footy is behind him? Really? So he's 30 yo, that does not mean his 'best is behind him'. He has played his best season when he was 28, far from over Lee.

On face value this might look on my part of clutching for hope, and maybe it is, but in no uncertain terms are these guys 'past their best'.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
This is far from convincing, certainly Pendles is in career form, by that I mean his consistency has not waned. Consistent high possession winner and consistently good as any currently reading the ball / play (there will never nor has been any player that can read play like this guy IMO).

There is no known universe ANYONE could argue he has 'past' it.

Sides, ok, played how many games in 2020? His best footy is behind him? Really? So he's 30 yo, that does not mean his 'best is behind him'. He has played his best season when he was 28, far from over Lee.

On face value this might look on my part of clutching for hope, and maybe it is, but in no uncertain terms are these guys 'past their best'.
Click to expand...
It will be remarkable if Pendles can play a full season in the midfield in 2021. There are currently 3 players older than 34 year or over suiting up for 2021 Burgoyne, Mundy and Martin. Lance Franklin, Mark Murphy, Shannon Hurn, Nathan Jones and Pendles are the 33 year olds.

He is a remarkable player so maybe he also becomes remarkably durable but lots of elite mids don’t remain productive 33 and beyond and the end often comes quickly. 2020 was easier for the older players with shortened games so it remains to be seen what they can maintain.

Sidey is less of an issue for 2021. He should be near optimal input. Ideally Pendles should be transitioning to more of a cameo player like Burgoyne has been for many seasons now. It’s not really healthy for our midfield. None of the kids from last 2 drafts will be ready for serious midfield minutes so the Browns, De Goey and Sier are the obvious ones to get their chance. I don’t mind a Maynard or Crisp to the midfield to bolster numbers but they are stars at halfback. They more likely come back to the field as mids as it’s not their natural go and it’s a tougher gig.

Pendles will need to be full time in 2021 but realistically it’s likely he will drop away a bit. Adams and Sidey are the two who should be the best and lead. We have a pretty weak midfield.

If De Goey’s court case goes badly we will be in all sorts.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
This is far from convincing, certainly Pendles is in career form, by that I mean his consistency has not waned. Consistent high possession winner and consistently good as any currently reading the ball / play (there will never nor has been any player that can read play like this guy IMO).

There is no known universe ANYONE could argue he has 'past' it.

Sides, ok, played how many games in 2020? His best footy is behind him? Really? So he's 30 yo, that does not mean his 'best is behind him'. He has played his best season when he was 28, far from over Lee.

On face value this might look on my part of clutching for hope, and maybe it is, but in no uncertain terms are these guys 'past their best'.
Click to expand...

I think you’re misinterpreting my comments. Pendles and Sidey are stars. No dispute. But they’re not going to get any faster by foot, their kicks will shorten, their reaction times will slow slightly and they be will become more injury-prone. It’s inevitable.

Our midfield has been in notable decline since 2018 and we somehow need to engineer big improvement in there without just throwing the kids to the wolves. Asking Pendles and Sidey to do even more heavy lifting to drive that midfield improvement is unrealistic. Hence my desire to push Crisp and Maynard into the centre square. Two bulls in their absolute primes. We have plenty of depth to cover them in defence.

We have to optimise the positioning and output of every single piece on the chess board.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
LuckyLee said:
Surely one of Crisp or Maynard needs to move into the mids?

Our midfield has been in decline for a while and with Treloar and Phillips gone, and Pendles and Sidey another year closer to retirement, we’ll need more than just Murphy and Sier moving in there to turn the ship around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...
I'd love to see Maynard roll through the middle if he wasn't so damn important to our backline. Crisp I could definitely see running around on the wing - would be a weapon at stoppages around the ground as a clearance guy with how well he disposes of the footy.

I do think the club has high expectations of Sier and Tyler Brown this year though
 
LuckyLee said:
I agree that they should feature but we can’t introduce too many of them into the engine room at once. In any given game, we probably need about eight players to spend some time in the centre square (some much more than others, of course). So that’s:

1. Adams
2. Pendles
3. Sidebottom
4. JDG
5. Sier
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???

If you fill those remaining three spots with T.Brown, Rantall, Reef/McRae, we’re gonna get smashed. No matter how good those youngsters are, there’s just not enough size, experience and fitness base in that eight to compete with the best midfields. We’d be throwing them to the wolves. But with Crisp and/or Maynard in there, it looks much more competitive.



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Click to expand...

Both the Brown boys had midfield time in 2020. Elliott rotates through. Thomas rotates through. You have to remember guys like Sidey, Adams and Pendles are playing 75%+ game time so you’re only looking for guys who’ll give a chop out. You also can manage the rotations so that it’s only 1 of Rantall or McInnes or whoever getting those opportunities with more experienced players.
 
LuckyLee said:
Surely one of Crisp or Maynard needs to move into the mids?

Our midfield has been in decline for a while and with Treloar and Phillips gone, and Pendles and Sidey another year closer to retirement, we’ll need more than just Murphy and Sier moving in there to turn the ship around.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

I expect it will be De Goey and some draftees like Macrae, Reef and Rantall that move into the middle.
 
Gone Critical said:
It will be remarkable if Pendles can play a full season in the midfield in 2021. There are currently 3 players older than 34 year or over suiting up for 2021 Burgoyne, Mundy and Martin. Lance Franklin, Mark Murphy, Shannon Hurn, Nathan Jones and Pendles are the 33 year olds.

He is a remarkable player so maybe he also becomes remarkably durable but lots of elite mids don’t remain productive 33 and beyond and the end often comes quickly. 2020 was easier for the older players with shortened games so it remains to be seen what they can maintain.

Sidey is less of an issue for 2021. He should be near optimal input. Ideally Pendles should be transitioning to more of a cameo player like Burgoyne has been for many seasons now. It’s not really healthy for our midfield. None of the kids from last 2 drafts will be ready for serious midfield minutes so the Browns, De Goey and Sier are the obvious ones to get their chance. I don’t mind a Maynard or Crisp to the midfield to bolster numbers but they are stars at halfback. They more likely come back to the field as mids as it’s not their natural go and it’s a tougher gig.

Pendles will need to be full time in 2021 but realistically it’s likely he will drop away a bit. Adams and Sidey are the two who should be the best and lead. We have a pretty weak midfield.

If De Goey’s court case goes badly we will be in all sorts.
Click to expand...

Look I'm not suggesting that Pendles is going to sustain his role as a full time mid, I'm merely suggesting that his form has not waned much if any. He still has much potential for impact - certainly as you stated in a cameo like role, still impactful. All of this was in reply to another poster who alluded that Pendles and Sides best is behind them.

The rest of your post I agree with.
 
jackcass said:
Both the Brown boys had midfield time in 2020. Elliott rotates through. Thomas rotates through. You have to remember guys like Sidey, Adams and Pendles are playing 75%+ game time so you’re only looking for guys who’ll give a chop out. You also can manage the rotations so that it’s only 1 of Rantall or McInnes or whoever getting those opportunities with more experienced players.
Click to expand...

First up, you’re relying on no injuries to Pendles, Sidey and Adams, which is unlikely. Secondly, Cal Brown was quite ineffectual as a midfielder and Tyler is totally unproven, as are Reef, Rantall and Macrae. Sier and DeGoey look the goods but are inconsistent and injury-prone - and playing DeGoey primarily as a mid blunts our scoring output.

We need to play the bulls - Maynard and Crisp - if we hope to compete with this:
1. Bontempelli
2. Dunkley
3. Macrae
4. Treloar
5. Smith
6. Hunter
7. Liberatore
8. Wallis


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LuckyLee said:
I think you’re misinterpreting my comments. Pendles and Sidey are stars. No dispute. But they’re not going to get any faster by foot, their kicks will shorten, their reaction times will slow slightly and they be will become more injury-prone. It’s inevitable.

Our midfield has been in notable decline since 2018 and we somehow need to engineer big improvement in there without just throwing the kids to the wolves. Asking Pendles and Sidey to do even more heavy lifting to drive that midfield improvement is unrealistic. Hence my desire to push Crisp and Maynard into the centre square. Two bulls in their absolute primes. We have plenty of depth to cover them in defence.

We have to optimise the positioning and output of every single piece on the chess board.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Neither Pendles or Sides have never been quick, and their disposal, on face value has always been at the pointy end. You're speculating that their 'best is behind them' purely coz age. They're 30 something not 50 something, their DE (motor skills) isn't going to fall away suddenly as it seems you're alluding to. And there's no actual age for all and sundry that it's your time to drop off.

And I agree with the rest of your post but that does not mean Pendles and Sides are past their best form. This is very hard to argue your position on face value.
 
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