Tasmania Congratulations on Tassie License. Mens team to enter 2028. Womens team TBA. Other details TBA 3/5

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Mar 24, 2017
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A very strange rule, what clubs members would vote for merger or relocation? It basically means none of those things will ever happen. It should be the AFL give the directive and 50% of the clubs must approve it for it to go ahead and that's it.
Melbourne members voted YES to merge with Hawthorn in 1996. Hawthorn members voted NO to the merge.
 
Apr 12, 2012
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They won the case on appeal which is why there in the Nrl today

Did they?
Pretty sure they won their case originally then the NRL won on appeal, but used the good news story aspect to allow them to stay anyway.
As a Balmain fan I wasn’t a happy camper. Especially after all the talk of the South’s faithful about protecting the originals. Only to be forgotten once they got what they wanted.

Should serve as a warning to the small Victorian clubs thinking the big Vics are looking out for them.
 

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big_e

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But how can a clubs constitution override a directive from the governing body of the entire sport? That's the strange part for me. A club could effectively have no following, be a burden on the competition, but not be in debt due to a few wealthy backers and the governing body wouldn't be able to relocate or merge them even if they wanted to.
The AFL's Constitution says they can move a club (or accept the merger of two clubs) if the clubs consent. Suspension or termination of a club's licence for breaching their licence agreement can be done by the commission but then has to be ratified by a general meeting (simple majority of all clubs).

For what its worth, most clubs' constitutions have something in them to guarantee the club's name, colours, location, etc. North Melbourne has this, for instance:

9. APPROVAL OF MERGER OR INTERSTATE RELOCATION
9.1 Definitions In this Rule 9:
“Merger Proposal” means any actual or proposed contract, arrangement or understanding the purpose of which is to merge or join the Club, or footballers employed, supported or controlled by the Club with any other club, team or entity (except an entity owned or controlled by the Club).
“Relocation Proposal” means any actual or proposed contract, arrangement or understanding the purpose or outcome of which will result in or require the Club to relocate from its Melbourne base to a location outside of the State of Victoria.
9.2 Approval requirements
The Club must not approve any Merger Proposal or any Relocation Proposal unless:
(a) the Board has provided Members with full information about the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be); and
(b) the Board has convened a general meeting of the Club at which the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be) is voted on by the Voting Members; and
(c) at least 75% of the total votes cast by Voting Members at the meeting personally or by proxy or attorney acting under power of attorney are in support of the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be).
 
Nov 8, 2000
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They won the case on appeal which is why there in the Nrl today

No, they won in the Federal Court, News took it to the High Court and won on appeal. But by that time they decided to keep them anyway so the outcome (according to News) was more about precedent than kicking Souths out.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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The AFL's Constitution says they can move a club (or accept the merger of two clubs) if the clubs consent. Suspension or termination of a club's licence for breaching their licence agreement can be done by the commission but then has to be ratified by a general meeting (simple majority of all clubs).

For what its worth, most clubs' constitutions have something in them to guarantee the club's name, colours, location, etc. North Melbourne has this, for instance:

9. APPROVAL OF MERGER OR INTERSTATE RELOCATION
9.1 Definitions In this Rule 9:
“Merger Proposal” means any actual or proposed contract, arrangement or understanding the purpose of which is to merge or join the Club, or footballers employed, supported or controlled by the Club with any other club, team or entity (except an entity owned or controlled by the Club).
“Relocation Proposal” means any actual or proposed contract, arrangement or understanding the purpose or outcome of which will result in or require the Club to relocate from its Melbourne base to a location outside of the State of Victoria.
9.2 Approval requirements
The Club must not approve any Merger Proposal or any Relocation Proposal unless:
(a) the Board has provided Members with full information about the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be); and
(b) the Board has convened a general meeting of the Club at which the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be) is voted on by the Voting Members; and
(c) at least 75% of the total votes cast by Voting Members at the meeting personally or by proxy or attorney acting under power of attorney are in support of the Merger Proposal or the Relocation Proposal (as the case may be).

Without an AFL bank guarantee many clubs (not all, pre Covid) are insolvent & continuing to trade exposes club senior management & the directors to litigation/fines & banned from holding similar positions in or out of footy.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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Without an AFL bank guarantee many clubs (not all, pre Covid) are insolvent & continuing to trade exposes club senior management & the directors to litigation/fines & banned from holding similar positions in or out of footy.

Remembering both HQ AND its clubs ARE not for profit organizations, so not sure what your point is.
 
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Remembering both HQ AND its clubs ARE not for profit organizations, so not sure what your point is.

For profit or not has nothing to do with it.
Trading while insolvent is breaking the law. Why would a CEO or director do it, they dont, thats why clubs need AFL guarantees.
Who/what owns your footy club?
 

Fire

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:confusedv1: , you think that the AFL is spread more nationally than the A League or super rugby (internationally!).

Make no mistake, there are 10 teams in one state, more than half, of which is spread more evenly across the nation. That is NOT what you call a national competition, in reality this is an expanded VFL.

Bizzare logic. By your thinking, the AFL would be more 'national' if it killed 8 victorian clubs than if it expanded into two new areas.
 
Jul 2, 2010
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I’m not sure this is accurate about members having to vote yes for a merger to go through as it wasn’t the case with Fitzroy or Brisbane it depends on each club and there constitution also if a club is in a financial position where an administrator gets appointed like in Fitzroys case then the decision gets taken out of there hands anyway!

Fitzroy was in the hands of an Administrator at the time, which as I understand it rendered the board and members effectively useless. The Administrator did the deal. Roylion would know more.
 
Jul 2, 2010
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I’m not sure this is accurate about members having to vote yes for a merger to go through as it wasn’t the case with Fitzroy or Brisbane it depends on each club and there constitution also if a club is in a financial position where an administrator gets appointed like in Fitzroys case then the decision gets taken out of there hands anyway!

From the 1993 AFL Articles of Association

clubpower.PNG


In the updated 2018 league constitutio, this section is unchanged - only the clause numbers are different.

clubs2.PNG
 
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Apr 24, 2018
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Fitzroy was in the hands of an Administrator at the time, which as I understand it rendered the board and members effectively useless. The Administrator did the deal. Roylion would know more.
i understand the Fitzroy side being in administration but what about Brisbane though I don’t remember them having a vote ?
 
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Oct 17, 2000
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I’m not sure this is accurate about members having to vote yes for a merger to go through as it wasn’t the case with Fitzroy or Brisbane it depends on each club and there constitution also if a club is in a financial position where an administrator gets appointed like in Fitzroys case then the decision gets taken out of there hands anyway!

Fitzroy was neither merged or relocated. No member vote was needed because no merger occurred. I was both a Fitzroy member and shareholder in 1996. I am still a Fitzroy member and shareholder in 2021.

The administrator surrendered the licence to the AFL effectively removing Fitzroy from the AFL competition.
 
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Oct 17, 2000
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i understand the Fitzroy side being in administration but what about Brisbane though I don’t remember them having a vote ?

The Brisbane Bears members voted to change the official name of the club. In effect they consented to their existing club being rebranded. Brisbane Lions entered the competition in 1987 along with the Eagles.
 
Oct 17, 2000
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A very strange rule, what clubs members would vote for merger or relocation?

Melbourne members voted in favour of a merger in 1996.

It should be the AFL give the directive and 50% of the clubs must approve it for it to go ahead and that's it.

No club, if it is not AFL owned, can be forced to merge or relocate. They are business entities that hold a licence to field a team in the AFL competition. The AFL does not own them.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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For profit or not has nothing to do with it.
Trading while insolvent is breaking the law. Why would a CEO or director do it, they dont, thats why clubs need AFL guarantees.
Who/what owns your footy club?

Again, what is your point? There is no club that is currently insolvent, they wouldn't be if they were.

Who / what owns our footy club? The members.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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Bizzare logic. By your thinking, the AFL would be more 'national' if it killed 8 victorian clubs than if it expanded into two new areas.

Why would it be more national if it killed off 8 clubs? It would barely exist if it did that (which it can't).

Please explain how it is 'national' when more than half the clubs are concentrated in one state?
 

Fire

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Why would it be more national if it killed off 8 clubs? It would barely exist if it did that (which it can't).

Please explain how it is 'national' when more than half the clubs are concentrated in one state?

Im not arguing it would make it more national, you are... and your second paragraph answers the question in your first!

You aren't judging how national a competition is based on the markets/regions represented... you are basing it how the representation is distributed. "A competition with more than half of its teams in one region isn't national, it's just an expended regional competition!"

You aren't factoring in how many other markets are actually being represented; you are only focused on how proportional that representation is. So I present you with two scenarios.

1. Expand in two new markets; let's say TAS and ACT.

2. Kill off 8 melbourne clubs.

Using your criteria, if we go for option 1, then we have 2 additional regions represented. But we also still have half the clubs coming from one region. How can a competition be national with that sort of distribution of representation? Even though we have added 2 more of the 8 states and territories, we've made little gain in how 'national' the competition is.

If we go for option 2, then suddenly no market has more than 20% representation. That distribution is far more pleasing! We have made a tremendous stride in how national out competition is, even though we have added no representation additional regions.
 
Mar 24, 2017
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No, his point is that 'my logic' is akin to killing off 8 vic clubs. That is not my logic, my logic is that this comp is not national no matter how much HQ want to spruik that.
If a company had 10 offices in Vic, two in each of NSW, Qld, SA & WA most would say it was national. It most certainly will be once Tassie come in.
 
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