Opinion New AFC HQ: Stalled Indefinitely

[Murray2503]

Thebarton and another 'mystery site'. Hilarious.
I hope we aren't trying to bluff the same way we did with b Crouch....

There is no mystery site. We've locked on to Thebarton and are ironing out details with councils, SANFL and government.

I hate the idea of Thebarton. Offers zero advantages over West Lakes as far as I can tell. Feels more like a way to 'connect' with the SANFL more than an actual advantage for us.

In no other city in the world would you have massive expanses of land surrounding every side of the city and then be forced to put your base at Thebarton oval. Anyone seen the size of Victoria Park and your telling me they couldn't build a facility next to an oval. Would be lucky to take up 10% of that land. The states motto should be "Status Quo." We really have no ******* clue here.

 

[Golumless]

Golumless if the Crows put up the 4 walls like they did under Fagan, all they have is 1997 and 1998. It’s a pretty hollow history and not representative of what the club is, or at least was, about.

Ignoring the whiff with our AFLW history and the players there who are well and truly building a compelling case to be considered a pillar of this club (and in Phillips case, is a pillar of this club, and I'm comfortable with having her in the same breath as McLeod and Roo), it's 1997, 1998, McLeod, Roo, Modra, Jarman, Smart, Hart, Talia, Walker, Sloane, Rutten etc. We have a very solid all-time best 22 and have not been short of players who deserve to be exonerated, even if some of them have been rather s**t off-field. Those names are what the club is about. They're our contributions to both the richness of SA football history and in some cases football history as a whole.

We took our eyes off the ball with Fagan, sure, but the damage isn't difficult to be rectified. I assume that'll be one of Olsens priorities.

Taking West Torrens history and trying to claim it as our own (as keeping any stand named after a legendary West Torrens player would be doing), or even other sporting stars just because they played at Thebarton Oval, would be a worse club destroying act than anything Fagan or Trigg (who cost us a dynasty) had done because it sells out what we've added to football history, and what you add is your culture. West Torrens is and had never been representative of what the club is about. We were born from the SANFL, but the amount that means to our history is a couple of lines in a document to understand why we exist. Outside of one-off acts celebrating our formation (and only with the permission of the SANFL), the history of the SANFL, or any clubs in it, is not ours to claim.

Whilst GreyCrow is absolutely right in that I am being very harsh with West Torrens history, we need to be if we're taking over Thebarton. Otherwise, it will always shackle and demean us. The place for that to be celebrated is Woodville Oval.

 

[hey shorty]

In no other city in the world would you have massive expanses of land surrounding every side of the city and then be forced to put your base at Thebarton oval. Anyone seen the size of Victoria Park and your telling me they couldn't build a facility next to an oval. Would be lucky to take up 10% of that land. The states motto should be "Status Quo." We really have no ******* clue here.

Actually it happens in a lot of cities, but hey never let a good rant get in the way of the truth.

 

[Crows I Am]

Except a whole new state of the art training facility?

Thebarton isn't 'SANFL HQ'. Their umpires train there.

Yes thats right, SANFL HQ is at Adelaide Oval now, they still use Thebarton oval but their offices are set up at AO

The SAAFL HQ is at Thebarton, they would be the one's who we would be kicking out.

 

[Mego Red]

Actually it happens in a lot of cities, but hey never let a good rant get in the way of the truth.

Not saying I disagree with you, but what are examples of that?

 

[hey shorty]

Not saying I disagree with you, but what are examples of that?

Happens in EPL a lot, teams have to go miles to train.

Shanghai another.

Hawthorn don't train anywhere near Hawthorn yet there's plenty of space to do so.

And there's masses of parks in New York but the Jets play out in the middle of nowhere in New Jersey.

 

[bootrossbootross]

Ignoring the whiff with our AFLW history and the players there who are well and truly building a compelling case to be considered a pillar of this club (and in Phillips case, is a pillar of this club, and I'm comfortable with having her in the same breath as McLeod and Roo), it's 1997, 1998, McLeod, Roo, Modra, Jarman, Smart, Hart, Talia, Walker, Sloane, Rutten etc. We have a very solid all-time best 22 and have not been short of players who deserve to be exonerated, even if some of them have been rather sh*t off-field. Those names are what the club is about. They're our contributions to both the richness of SA football history and in some cases football history as a whole.

We took our eyes off the ball with Fagan, sure, but the damage isn't difficult to be rectified. I assume that'll be one of Olsens priorities.

Taking West Torrens history and trying to claim it as our own (as keeping any stand named after a legendary West Torrens player would be doing), or even other sporting stars just because they played at Thebarton Oval, would be a worse club destroying act than anything Fagan or Trigg (who cost us a dynasty) had done because it sells out what we've added to football history, and what you add is your culture. West Torrens is and had never been representative of what the club is about. We were born from the SANFL, but the amount that means to our history is a couple of lines in a document to understand why we exist. Outside of one-off acts celebrating our formation (and only with the permission of the SANFL), the history of the SANFL, or any clubs in it, is not ours to claim.

Whilst GreyCrow is absolutely right in that I am being very harsh with West Torrens history, we need to be if we're taking over Thebarton. Otherwise, it will always shackle and demean us. The place for that to be celebrated is Woodville Oval.

You may see it differently, maybe I am the only one who thinks the Crows can encompass the history of the SANFL. I agree there is a difference between the direct history you are wedded to and the greater, rich football past of SA. As I recall, the Crows were hastily thrown together in response to the magpoos greater vision, and they were thrown together to represent the best of the SANFL at the time. I am older now so maybe I have distorted that.

Ergo, it seems to me like a natural progression to assume the mantle of the Aussie rules team for all South Australians, and embrace the (indirect) history that encompasses.

But I also believe Craig Bradley is the AFL games record holder, even though he was a mongpie. None of the other clubs in the AFL have discarded their pre AFL history, and I see no reason why the Crows (lor for that matter the Power) should either.

 

[hey shorty]

You may see it differently, maybe I am the only one who thinks the Crows can encompass the history of the SANFL. I agree there is a difference between the direct history you are wedded to and the greater, rich football past of SA. As I recall, the Crows were hastily thrown together in response to the magpoos greater vision, and they were thrown together to represent the best of the SANFL at the time. I am older now so maybe I have distorted that.

Ergo, it seems to me like a natural progression to assume the mantle of the Aussie rules team for all South Australians, and embrace the (indirect) history that encompasses.

But I also believe Craig Bradley is the AFL games record holder, even though he was a mongpie. None of the other clubs in the AFL have discarded their pre AFL history, and I see no reason why the Crows (lor for that matter the Power) should either.

It makes absolutely no sense, in fact it actually draws ridicule if we decide to go down that path.

We started in 1990 and need to embrace that.

 

[aabp1978]

Which cities? Don't get me wrong - parklands are critical for any city..but I honestly think Adelaide's approach is bizarre at times...especially when you consider that Adelaide Oval, Adelaide Uni, Aquatic Centre, Victoria Park, the Governors residence, the festival centre etc. are all on what was supposed to be on parklands in "Light's vision" (i.e. the parklands have never functioned as envisioned).

On that point - I really don't know why we aren't pushing to redevelop the Victoria Park precinct. Was already used 11 months of the year, closer to the CBD, tremendous amount of space which would allow us to have two - three ovals and admin on the same site. Seems a no brainer to me

 

[bootrossbootross]

It makes absolutely no sense, in fact it actually draws ridicule if we decide to go down that path.

We started in 1990 and need to embrace that.

it makes no sense to you, and there are no facts contained in your reply. And I have already mentiuoned maybe I am the only fan who thinks the crows can encompass the wider SANFL history as a nod to the SANFL greats of the past that deserve a place amongst any discussion on AFL history in general.

I initially mentioned suburban history in this context to show that the WCE have redeveloped a suburban ground for their home rather than Optus or some other greenfields site in the city, and it seems to work for them. I also noted that grounding the club in the suburbs is a good way of demonstrating "football first", as many of the alternatives I see listed are done so seemngly to end up with the flashiest possible surrounds?

The discussion surrounding history is perhaps a philosophical one for people without such fixed views as yours (not a dig), and in this case is just a distraction from the point I was trying to make.

 

[MarcusP2]

Happens in EPL a lot, teams have to go miles to train.

Shanghai another.

Hawthorn don't train anywhere near Hawthorn yet there's plenty of space to do so.

And there's masses of parks in New York but the Jets play out in the middle of nowhere in New Jersey.

I'm just trying to imagine the blowback of somebody suggesting building a football stadium in the middle of Central Park.

 

[hey shorty]

it makes no sense to you, and there are no facts contained in your reply. And I have already mentiuoned maybe I am the only fan who thinks the crows can encompass the wider SANFL history as a nod to the SANFL greats of the past that deserve a place amongst any discussion on AFL history in general.

I initially mentioned suburban history in this context to show that the WCE have redeveloped a suburban ground for their home rather than Optus or some other greenfields site in the city, and it seems to work for them. I also noted that grounding the club in the suburbs is a good way of demonstrating "football first", as many of the alternatives I see listed are done so seemngly to end up with the flashiest possible surrounds?

The discussion surrounding history is perhaps a philosophical one for people without such fixed views as yours (not a dig), and in this case is just a distraction from the point I was trying to make.

Im all for redeveloping Thebarton, but littering it with historical references to other clubs who aren't our own seems a pointless exercise.

It should be filled with AFC stuff and only that.

 

[xazos79]

In no other city in the world would you have massive expanses of land surrounding every side of the city and then be forced to put your base at Thebarton oval. Anyone seen the size of Victoria Park and your telling me they couldn't build a facility next to an oval. Would be lucky to take up 10% of that land. The states motto should be "Status Quo." We really have no ******* clue here.

Agreed. And the western parklands are huge and underutilised. During summer they become unused dust bowls.

Thebby feels like second prize in a beauty contest.

But i'll reserve judgement until i see the plans.

Being amazing for the players is more important than catering to us members/fans IMO.

 

[hey shorty]

I'm just trying to imagine the blowback of somebody suggesting building a football stadium in the middle of Central Park.

Without question.

And I'm not suggesting it would or should ever happen, certainly not these days.

My point is the parklands were created for people to enjoy, and as much as I don't like the Parklands people ranting and raving I can somewhat understand why the build of a big facility by a private enterprise would annoy them.

 

[rocket18]

it makes no sense to you, and there are no facts contained in your reply. And I have already mentiuoned maybe I am the only fan who thinks the crows can encompass the wider SANFL history as a nod to the SANFL greats of the past that deserve a place amongst any discussion on AFL history in general.

I initially mentioned suburban history in this context to show that the WCE have redeveloped a suburban ground for their home rather than Optus or some other greenfields site in the city, and it seems to work for them. I also noted that grounding the club in the suburbs is a good way of demonstrating "football first", as many of the alternatives I see listed are done so seemngly to end up with the flashiest possible surrounds?

The discussion surrounding history is perhaps a philosophical one for people without such fixed views as yours (not a dig), and in this case is just a distraction from the point I was trying to make.

I'll disagree with you too, its up to the SANFL to make nods towards the SANFL greats and raise it for discussion with AFL history.

We are an AFL club it's not our place to do that, it has no relevance to us, these are SANFL greats that didn't play for us.

Time to embrace our own history not try and "manufacture" a connection to other clubs great players.

I like the idea of basing the club in the suburbs, far too many compromises to be made for a CBD move.

 

[DJ75]

In no other city in the world would you have massive expanses of land surrounding every side of the city and then be forced to put your base at Thebarton oval. Anyone seen the size of Victoria Park and your telling me they couldn't build a facility next to an oval. Would be lucky to take up 10% of that land. The states motto should be "Status Quo." We really have no ******* clue here.

100% agree with you here.
Especially with the old Clipsal race dying. Are we going to wait until the grandstand is falling apart there now. Could easily do something around that area and fit an oval in for the grandstand. One would imagine that with the car racing gone, there is no need to keep the track through the parklands....

 

[DJ75]

You may see it differently, maybe I am the only one who thinks the Crows can encompass the history of the SANFL. I agree there is a difference between the direct history you are wedded to and the greater, rich football past of SA. As I recall, the Crows were hastily thrown together in response to the magpoos greater vision, and they were thrown together to represent the best of the SANFL at the time. I am older now so maybe I have distorted that.

Ergo, it seems to me like a natural progression to assume the mantle of the Aussie rules team for all South Australians, and embrace the (indirect) history that encompasses.

But I also believe Craig Bradley is the AFL games record holder, even though he was a mongpie. None of the other clubs in the AFL have discarded their pre AFL history, and I see no reason why the Crows (lor for that matter the Power) should either.

Firstly, it wasn't Port Magpies 'greater vision'. Nice try to sneak that in.
Port Magpies decided to sell out SA footy. That's what happened. They screwed all of us over, and in doing so have directly led to the extended VFL competition we have now, where we have zero say in the league itself. So, yeh, thanks Port.

I have no interest in pre-1990 as far as AFL records go. Mainly because they don't exist. The AFL started in 1990. Any record before that is completely irrelevant. It would therefore be hypocritical to try and claim any connection to heritage before that.

Sam Newman's records at Geelong have about as much relevance to todays AFL game as his opinions do to todays society.

 

[flashcrow]

Firstly, it wasn't Port Magpies 'greater vision'. Nice try to sneak that in.
Port Magpies decided to sell out SA footy. That's what happened. They screwed all of us over, and in doing so have directly led to the extended VFL competition we have now, where we have zero say in the league itself. So, yeh, thanks Port.

I have no interest in pre-1990 as far as AFL records go. Mainly because they don't exist. The AFL started in 1990. Any record before that is completely irrelevant. It would therefore be hypocritical to try and claim any connection to heritage before that.

Sam Newman's records at Geelong have about as much relevance to todays AFL game as his opinions do to todays society.

I agree. There is no V in AFL.... well there is, but there shouldn't be...

 

[MRB37]

100% agree with you here.
Especially with the old Clipsal race dying. Are we going to wait until the grandstand is falling apart there now. Could easily do something around that area and fit an oval in for the grandstand. One would imagine that with the car racing gone, there is no need to keep the track through the parklands....

Yes, it means their members don't have to worry about the train rolling through the middle of their golf course anymore, they've been pushing for it for decades.

Residential special interest groups (largely led by Theo Maras, the main person who has kept the old Le Cornu site a vacant joke all through the 90s and early 00s by interfering with the ACC, and who will be building his family's personal residential tower inside what used to be the race track at 2 Hutt St) lobbying the Marshall government behind the scenes is how the Clipsal 500 was killed, just as another example.

If the SA government had the choice between letting us use the parklands or letting private real estate groups use it to develop it as residential and commercial space I know where i'd put my money.

 

[Mego Red]

Happens in EPL a lot, teams have to go miles to train.

Shanghai another.

Hawthorn don't train anywhere near Hawthorn yet there's plenty of space to do so.

And there's masses of parks in New York but the Jets play out in the middle of nowhere in New Jersey.

Sorry - are we talking about cities that are surrounded by unused parklands?

 

[hey shorty]

Sorry - are we talking about cities that are surrounded by unused parklands?

The parklands around Adelaide aren't necessarily unused though are they ??

I have no real issue with people not wanting buildings on them

 

[WetCrow1991]

The parklands around Adelaide aren't necessarily unused though are they ??

I have no real issue with people not wanting buildings on them

Some of them are unused scrub, sorry I should say unused; I'm sure there is a lot of ball handling going on of the non-football variety.

 

[Mego Red]

The parklands around Adelaide aren't necessarily unused though are they ??

I have no real issue with people not wanting buildings on them

I guess some people put a horse on them, but they seem pretty seriously unused (or at least underused) at the moment.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Actually it happens in a lot of cities, but hey never let a good rant get in the way of the truth.

I think Murray needs to get out a bit. I have luckily been to some major European cities and having a green belt around the cities is a major priority. Saying that we could have improved some parts of our parks but not with football grounds.

 

[MarcusP2]

I think Murray needs to get out a bit. I have luckily been to some major European cities and having a green belt around the cities is a major priority. Saying that we could have improved some parts of our parks but not with football grounds.

Certainly no 'empty green areas' near the city.