News Jnr Rioli - He’s back.

[Obeanie1]

I take it as the AFL are trying to negotiate a ban that won't be appealed, now we're already two years in which means that ASADA want at least 4.

At least 4?

That is the maximum it can be. For the really bad cheats who pump PED into their bodies and preplan to cheat and avoid tests like taking blood transfusions pre testing to dupe the efforts of WADA.

So if the really professional, highly funded, high tech cheats can only get max 4 years why would / could ASADA / WADA expect the maximum for a pot smoker who messed around at a piss test sitting in front of a testing officer? No systematic PED cheating, no premeditated avoidance and only pot.

 

[pantskyle]

At least 4?

That is the maximum it can be. For the really bad cheats who pump PED into their bodies and preplan to cheat and avoid tests like taking blood transfusions pre testing to dupe the efforts of WADA.

So if the really professional, highly funded, high tech cheats can only get max 4 years why would / could ASADA / WADA expect the maximum for a pot smoker who messed around at a piss test sitting in front of a testing officer? No systematic PED cheating, no premeditated avoidance and only pot.

As what's been said from the start, tampering is considered as bad as testing positive. I'd say it's fairly clear that ASADA isn't going to allow a 2 year ban.

 

[WCE_phil]

a 3 year ban is effectively over 3 years as well due to when the ban would end, it's effectively 3 and a half years. 30 months takes him out of the game for finals, 2 full seasons and a preseason as it is. Even 2 years we are unlikely to see him till next year.

 

[pantskyle]

a 3 year ban is effectively over 3 years as well due to when the ban would end, it's effectively 3 and a half years. 30 months takes him out of the game for finals, 2 full seasons and a preseason as it is. Even 2 years we are unlikely to see him till next year.

I think 3 years is entirely possible and what I think it will be.

 

[Obeanie1]

As what's been said from the start, tampering is considered as bad as testing positive. I'd say it's fairly clear that ASADA isn't going to allow a 2 year ban.

Not the point.

What Willie did was not as bad as what Armstrong did in cycling over a decade.

Agree or disagree?

The maximum penalty is for the professional cheats is the point. The ones who pre plan to cheat, spend time, $$$ and efforts involving other athletes, doctors and support staff cheating and hiding from WADA.

Organised crime versus a single person doing a one off stupid thing.

Why have a sliding scale of 0 to four years?

 

[pantskyle]

Not the point.

What Willie did was not as bad as what Armstrong did in cycling over a decade.

Agree or disagree?

The maximum penalty is for the professional cheats is the point. The ones who pre plan to cheat, spend time, $$$ and efforts involving other athletes, doctors and support staff cheating and hiding from WADA.

Organised crime versus a single person doing a one off stupid thing.

Why have a sliding scale of 0 to four years?

It is the point whether you agree or not.

 

[Dark Sharks]

All this, just for a little ganja.

 

[WCE_phil]

With these bans they are designed around olympians and 4 year cycles so it would take you out of 1 world champs and 1 olympics however for talented athletes that is likely 1/3 of their career. The other thing being these are sports where it is solely based upon the performance of 1 person. This has a much greater effect on the club than just Willies career.

a 3 year ban for an afl player is almost certainly career ending. So much changes in the game that even for the games top 10% it would likely be 2 years post ban before they are back to their best if they ever are as it's not a static sport. Rules, systems, tactics all change dramatically. Even if you look at guys with 1 year injuries (supposed full rehab and back onto the field) it is normally a full year further before they are back to their best.

The hold up in the ban no matter what the ban is, is a complete miscarriage of justice not just to willie but more so to the football club as it forces us to effectively be at least 1 list spot down and be making decisions on other players careers because we have NFI whats going on. Even looking at this decision if no decision is made before the end of the SPP we are down a spot until the midseason draft.

 

[Rowan18]

a 3 year ban is effectively over 3 years as well due to when the ban would end, it's effectively 3 and a half years. 30 months takes him out of the game for finals, 2 full seasons and a preseason as it is. Even 2 years we are unlikely to see him till next year.

I suspect they will go for 2.5 years for this reason. Still seems pretty harsh (even though the circumstances don't really warrant it), while allowing him to do pre-season training and hit the WAFL in early 2021 season.

 

[DanWCE]

I suspect they will go for 2.5 years for this reason. Still seems pretty harsh (even though the circumstances don't really warrant it), while allowing him to do pre-season training and hit the WAFL in early 2021 season.

Sounds about the mark. I hadn't considered the 30 months thing until Keys mentioned it. It's basically the same as 24 months due to the additional 6 months occuring in off season.

Would imagine we'd arrange Rioli a PT (or advise him to shell out for one himself) and put him on a proper program to get him ready to reintegrate with the main group so he hits the ground running. Think he will have some fire in him and come back to prove a point.

 

[Obeanie1]

It is the point whether you agree or not.

So you are saying a systematic and preplanned tampering of a test would get the same penalty as someone who smoked pot and spat in a jar without thinking?

They are in essence the exact same crime and should get the same penalty.

And you are right, I don't agree. Because one situation is massively different to the other. One was preplanned and intentional. The other was not.

The exact same legal principle as premeditated murder vs man slaughter.

 

[pantskyle]

So you are saying a systematic and preplanned tampering of a test would get the same penalty as someone who smoked pot and spat in a jar without thinking?

They are in essence the exact same crime and should get the same penalty.

And you are right, I don't agree. Because one situation is massively different to the other. One was preplanned and intentional. The other was not.

No, I'm saying ASADA/WADA see tampering of a test as seriously as testing positive to a banned substance.

 

[Obeanie1]

No, I'm saying ASADA/WADA see tampering of a test as seriously as testing positive to a banned substance.

Like the chap who just had his penalty reduced to 20 months then?

He tested positive, didn't get 4 years or 3. Came up with a slightly plausible reason and therefore didn't cop the maximum penalty.

As I keep saying the MAXIMUM penalty is for the dead set undeniable drug cheats like Armstrong. Not a pot smoker who did something silly and spat in a jar.

 

[pantskyle]

Like the chap who just had his penalty reduced to 20 months then?

He tested positive, didn't get 4 years or 3. Came up with a slightly plausible reason and therefore didn't cop the maximum penalty.

As I keep saying the MAXIMUM penalty is for the dead set undeniable drug cheats like Armstrong. Not a pot smoker who did something silly and spat in a jar.

I'm not saying he is going to get the max penalty, I said they would be pushing for it, it'll be negotiated down to 3 years.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Like the chap who just had his penalty reduced to 20 months then?

He tested positive, didn't get 4 years or 3. Came up with a slightly plausible reason and therefore didn't cop the maximum penalty.

Until SIA appeal, which they’re odds on to do.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I don't know enough about the code or the rules to know what a fair penalty is (I had assumed it would be a straightforward 4 years). However the process has been absymal - there is no excuse for how long this has taken.

Surely there needs to be a full independent review of the handling of the case.

If it is 4 years - let the lad know so he can move on with his life.

 

[Kwality]

Its the delay that is a disgrace.
What are the AFLPA doing about it?

I'd suggest contacting them to let them know we are watching their performance NOT supporting Willie, but it would only take a couple of cretins or morons to make things worse not better.

See their website https://www.aflplayers.com.au/wellbeing/

Email
info@aflplayers.com.au

I've sent off an email, simply 'What are you doing to support Willie? Please do more !!!'

 

[Seadog]

All this, just for a little ganja.

Maybe Willie had just finished his post training spliff and suffered a bout of weed induced paranoia where he wasn't sure if the noises coming out of his mouth were actual words or if he was producing them in the correct sequence.
Could be he didn't know if he was going to laugh hysterically, black out or start singing in Klingon. Gatorade in the pee cup might have been the best way out of that fear and loathing.
Or maybe not.

 

[Bender_]

Maybe Willie had just finished his post training spliff and suffered a bout of weed induced paranoia where he wasn't sure if the noises coming out of his mouth were actual words or if he was producing them in the correct sequence.
Could be he didn't know if he was going to laugh hysterically, black out or start singing in Klingon. Gatorade in the pee cup might have been the best way out of that fear and loathing.
Or maybe not.

Jesus somebody get the man some *en golf shoes!

 

[Keys]

This was Gil on 19/10/20


“Well, I’m going to get in trouble with ASADA again, I agree with you,” he said when asked about the delay.
“We’ve had those discussions, it needs to be done quicker. The last time I said that I got in trouble and I’m saying it again.

“We need to work with ASADA and we’ll take our share of accountability but we need to get these things resolved quickly.”

“I’ll be careful what I say - hopefully soon,” McLachlan told reporters on Monday.

“I have some level of insight, but again these decisions are not ours. We’re working hard to get to that point.

“I’m not deflecting responsibility but these are not our decisions. We work with ASADA, they are our partner, and I think they do a magnificent job.

“I’ve also been clear, I think these things can be resolved quicker.”


And then on 23/12/20

“I don't know what is public, I apologise that I don't know what I can comment on, other than I'm looking forward to a decision as soon as possible, and I'm optimistic that's sooner rather than later,” McLachlan told reporters.


******* pathetic

 

[ep2018]

The club was supposed to be told of the decision a couple weeks ago. I think the AFL are worried with the pies racism report coming out recently that announcing a career-ending penalty to a black player might cause them a decent amount of blowback.

 

[ep2018]

Also I suspect with a penalty that will be larger than anything else handed out by the AFL it wouldn't surprise me that, especially during these COVID times, they have taken their time deciding and announcing a decision knowing that whatever penalty given will be much longer than the time it takes to announce, even if they go about it at a snails pace.

 

[Balls In]

Gil is a Vic centric worm and asada is a joke. Two competing incompetencies with a blokes career in the middle over something that should never have been in a "perfornance enhancing" arena. Thats the problem. They all know they will look stupid if they end Willy.. but but but Olympics etc

 

[Dark Sharks]

I take it as the AFL are trying to negotiate a ban that won't be appealed, now we're already two years in which means that ASADA want at least 4.

At least 4?

That is the maximum it can be. For the really bad cheats who pump PED into their bodies and preplan to cheat and avoid tests like taking blood transfusions pre testing to dupe the efforts of WADA.

So if the really professional, highly funded, high tech cheats can only get max 4 years why would / could ASADA / WADA expect the maximum for a pot smoker who messed around at a piss test sitting in front of a testing officer? No systematic PED cheating, no premeditated avoidance and only pot.

As what's been said from the start, tampering is considered as bad as testing positive. I'd say it's fairly clear that ASADA isn't going to allow a 2 year ban.

I think 3 years is entirely possible and what I think it will be.

Not the point.

What Willie did was not as bad as what Armstrong did in cycling over a decade.

Agree or disagree?

The maximum penalty is for the professional cheats is the point. The ones who pre plan to cheat, spend time, $$$ and efforts involving other athletes, doctors and support staff cheating and hiding from WADA.

Organised crime versus a single person doing a one off stupid thing.

Why have a sliding scale of 0 to four years?

It is the point whether you agree or not.

So you are saying a systematic and preplanned tampering of a test would get the same penalty as someone who smoked pot and spat in a jar without thinking?

They are in essence the exact same crime and should get the same penalty.

And you are right, I don't agree. Because one situation is massively different to the other. One was preplanned and intentional. The other was not.

The exact same legal principle as premeditated murder vs man slaughter.

No, I'm saying ASADA/WADA see tampering of a test as seriously as testing positive to a banned substance.

Like the chap who just had his penalty reduced to 20 months then?

He tested positive, didn't get 4 years or 3. Came up with a slightly plausible reason and therefore didn't cop the maximum penalty.

As I keep saying the MAXIMUM penalty is for the dead set undeniable drug cheats like Armstrong. Not a pot smoker who did something silly and spat in a jar.

I'm not saying he is going to get the max penalty, I said they would be pushing for it, it'll be negotiated down to 3 years.

Whoah watch out gaiz, we got ourselves some fireworks over here

Mods! Mods! Better get in here quick.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

The club was told that the penalty would be announced this past week, no one has heard anything, my source has no idea now. I have a funny feeling the Collingwood news with the report on racism and subsequent standing down of their president has forced this to be pushed back a few weeks, with the worry that a likely career ending penalty against a black player may be construed as racist, I'm legit starting to worry this sh*t will be announced within a week of the mens season start, which will distract us from much needed wins to start the season. Well done AFL!

The club was supposed to be told of the decision a couple weeks ago. I think the AFL are worried with the pies racism report coming out recently that announcing a career-ending penalty to a black player might cause them a decent amount of blowback.

Is there some reason why you feel the need to repeat the same point?

While ignoring others’ inconvenient points like “why did Simpson say the club had no idea when the decision was coming during the week they supposedly were told the decision was coming”?