News Review into racism at Collingwood

[Dead Eye Didak]

well it is my opinion that this should just be allowed to play out without comment from everyone. No one actually knows, you are all putting yourselves in HL's head and thats just not fair

I think everyone wants this to play out fairly, but when you get people like Shae tweeting out of the blue, and naming people and describing scenarios, some incorrectly, then that's where the actual issue gets lost, and it turns into a sideshow.
You cannot not talk about it either, as there is an article about Heritier in the paper just about everyday.
I really doubt Heritier cares about what anyone is posting on here either, whether its a positive or negative message.

 

[danielnajdek]

Shae who.

Hope Maxwell blasted him.

 

[Dynamics]

I posted a very angry rant last night and deleted it, which was the right thing to do.

Still pissed off at Shae though. Makes up some slanderous garbage then has the nerve to moral grandstand in the same breath.

It's a shame, because it's hard to take him seriously and I'd like to. He had zero qualms in publically declaring his old skipper an overt racist, so why would I believe him? His judgement is deeply flawed. It's a shame he's an idiot, because the more clear heads and thoughtful contributions we have from the players involved (as opposed to the deafening silence from some others), the better.

 

[sr36]

Not sure why you'd assume "historically" means yesterday or the day before in the context of a report that doesn't list a specific racist incident post 2013.

It was our responses to racial claims that was reviewed - not the racial claims or issues themselves. We were responding to HLs issues right up until we called for the review in the middle of 2020. I think the review does cover the time period beyond 2013 - however, I'd need to re-read it to be sure because there was the stuff about HL not being included, but I assumed that was only talking about an investigation into his actual claims rather than the investigation into our response. Regardless, I do think that we handled HLs claims bloody poorly and they rightly fit into and are central to a criticism of our responses to racism.

 

[jackcass]

It was our responses to racial claims that was reviewed - not the racial claims or issues themselves. We were responding to HLs issues right up until we called for the review in the middle of 2020. I think the review does cover the time period beyond 2013 - however, I'd need to re-read it to be sure because there was the stuff about HL not being included, but I assumed that was only talking about an investigation into his actual claims rather than the investigation into our response. Regardless, I do think that we handled HLs claims bloody poorly and they rightly fit into and are central to a criticism of our responses to racism.

Yes but it's hard to review the processes in action if there aren't any incidents. Those cited in the review post 2013 that were related to cheer squad issues in 2019 and 2020 which were both apparently dealt with very efficiently and very well. As was the recent incident with Lim it appears.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

it sounds like the previous 80 pages of this thread on what has been written about HL

Dead set,
Can you give it a rest.
You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[sr36]

Yes but it's hard to review the processes in action if there aren't any incidents. Those cited in the review post 2013 that were related to cheer squad issues in 2019 and 2020 which were both apparently dealt with very efficiently and very well. As was the recent incident with Lim it appears.

Yeah but we were still responding poorly to HL stuff in 2020.

In terms of dealing with issues efficiently and well, does anyone else remember how well Eddie initially handled the Goodes 'ape' call? He was widely lauded for the response - and then he dropped the King Kong line. Bloody Ed. I can't help but love how prone he is to stupidity. It's a reminder of all the times you woke up after a too big night, embarrassed - WTF did I do.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[HeathySure]

you nee

Of recent and current players, who do you think is most likely to have been the victim of systemic racism during the say last five years? Or do you think think maybe the systemic structure has existed but without victims during that time? Obviously these are not questions you can answer, but I look at the player list and consider potential contemporary problems, and am really surprised that racism is said to still exist at the club. From the outside looking in, there just don't seem to be any disgruntled players of colour, and where there have been rumblings about players at the club, they seem to have been leaked to the public or media. Yet when the report was released, the reaction to it from media and the public was extremely hostile to the club, and tarnished the reputation of all who worked in high places there. So are we to assume that something racist must have been happening but we just don't know what it is?

you need to understand the difference between racism and systematic racism, maybe you do already but the report clearly says that there have been issues addressed in the last few years but it hasnt been good enough. Hence the title Do Better

 

[HeathySure]

You're calling into question their character and the actions or lack thereof. Certainly not painting them in a positive light.

show me where i did that?

 

[HeathySure]

From Moore himself post the open letter...

“This message is not about anything other than the issue at hand, which is the fact that a distinguished professor has published a report saying that our club historically has a problem with systemic racism,” Moore told SEN’s Bob & Andy.

“That’s why we have written what we have written. There is no other reason other than to say we acknowledge this history, we are going to take a good hard honest look at it and we are going to move forward.

‘Shocked, ashamed’ Collingwood players, staff release emotional ‘sorry’ letter after racism report

Collingwood stars behind open ‘sorry’ letter reveal ‘shame’ at ‘damning’ racism report

www.foxsports.com.au

Not sure why you'd assume "historically" means yesterday or the day before in the context of a report that doesn't list a specific racist incident post 2013.

i have no problem with that statement. But the report clearly says that there are steps that needs to be implemented that havent been.
that is now not 2013

 

[HeathySure]

I think everyone wants this to play out fairly, but when you get people like Shae tweeting out of the blue, and naming people and describing scenarios, some incorrectly, then that's where the actual issue gets lost, and it turns into a sideshow.
You cannot not talk about it either, as there is an article about Heritier in the paper just about everyday.
I really doubt Heritier cares about what anyone is posting on here either, whether its a positive or negative message.

Thats my point. Shae says something and its a big sideshow of over reactions then trying to denigrate him. He has his opinion, he stated his opinion and anyone who didnt agree with him did not address his points only his error which he apologised for. Again my point about HL is he should not be commented upon either because NOONE knows the facts, this thread of full of slander to HL for no other reason that he is different and has an opinion (which affects him!) from people who dont want to hear it. Racism and Systematic racism isnt going to go away with silence though so i can understand why HL keeps going on abut it. Nothing is happening to solve it until now with the report. if you want the club to improve YOU should care about the report being addressed.

 

[HeathySure]

Dead set,
Can you give it a rest.
You're embarrassing yourself.

please explain how

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Just effing hilarious that posters just try and discredit the person who's opinion is different to their own. Quite sad really. sums up what some of the people of Collingwood think about systemic racism. They have no clue what it is and dont want to learn, and that makes them ignorant or racist. I hope its just ignorant, its the lesser of the 2 evils

Maybe we just don't care, we follow footy for the game not social issues. You want to use it to get on your soap box go right ahead, you are boring IMO but each to their own. You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine. If that makes me a racist in your eyes go for. No offence I don't know you so I don't care.

 

[HeathySure]

Maybe we just don't care, we follow footy for the game not social issues. You want to use it to get on your soap box go right ahead, you are boring IMO but each to their own. You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine. If that makes me a racist in your eyes go for. No offence I don't know you so I don't care.

you dont like pushback from a dissenting opinion. Got it

 

[magpies42]

HE actually makes an outrageous claim - Maxwell named his black Dog after H - which he quickly back tracked and apologised for....he discredits himself.

Shae wasn't there when H got to the club either.

He was there for what 3 seasons 2010-12, and he heard some racist jokes.

Shae wasn't at the club when the KingKong stuffed happened, and so also has no idea of what the fallout was like.

But yeah, good on Shae for mouthing off (after Collingwood has already acted anyway) and him fingering specific people as enablers.

L.Ball wasn't there when H came to the club, Ball came to a club where H was in the leadership group...don't leaders drive culture within the playing group?

He calls out Buckley for denying the Chimp name, why not MM (H actual coach for the majority of his career who also claims to never heard the Chimp name).

My motive is calling out flogs, Shae is just an attention seeking flog.

Fingering is sexual harassment

 

[jmac70]

please explain how

I wouldn’t worry too much about what that poster thinks.

 

[sr36]

you nee

you need to understand the difference between racism and systematic racism, maybe you do already but the report clearly says that there have been issues addressed in the last few years but it hasnt been good enough. Hence the title Do Better

TGGs question can still relate to structural racism. In terms of what our sturctural racism was, it can cause a negative outcome - a victim or many victims - or you can have it in an organistion without it having a negative impact on anyone or anything.

In our case though, I think H and the club itself have been victims of it - not the Chimp stuff - I think that's a sideshow. But I think he's justified to feel like he was brushed off because we didn't have a proper policy or process in place to deal with his complaint after Bucks told him off for speaking out against Ed's King Kong comment. Ultimately though, I think the outcome would have been the same - sorry Hertier, there's nothing to see here and he probably still would have cracked the shits. After that the club became a victim due to the fallout from the review.

At the end of the day the main reason for policies is arse covering or making sure managers don't stuff up too much, they're not magic bullets - in individual cases, they often give a worse outcome than individual line managers dealing with the case the way they think is best.

 

[Pie eyed]

TGGs question can still relate to structural racism. In terms of what our sturctural racism was, it can cause a negative outcome - a victim or many victims - or you can have it in an organistion without it having a negative impact on anyone or anything.

In our case though, I think H and the club itself have been victims of it - not the Chimp stuff - I think that's a sideshow. But I think he's justified to feel like he was brushed off because we didn't have a proper policy or process in place to deal with his complaint after Bucks told him off for speaking out against Ed's King Kong comment. Ultimately though, I think the outcome would have been the same - sorry Hertier, there's nothing to see here and he probably still would have cracked the shits. After that the club became a victim due to the fallout from the review.

At the end of the day the main reason for policies is arse covering or making sure managers don't stuff up too much, they're not magic bullets - in individual cases, they often give a worse outcome than individual line managers dealing with the case the way they think is best.

The Pies are doing everything they can.
The media orgasm over Ed's poor choice of "the word" Proud aside I think the review itself has been totally misrepresented by the media and other "self interested" people.

Personally if Harry came up to me in the street I would would ask him if he needs help.
He was invited to take centre stage in the review and walked away like a coward.

 

[sr36]

The Pies are doing everything they can.
The media orgasm over Ed's poor choice of "the word" Proud aside I think the review itself has been totally misrepresented by the media and other "self interested" people.

Personally if Harry came up to me in the street I would would ask him if he needs help.
He was invited to take centre stage in the review and walked away like a coward.

I think it's been misunderstood as much as misrepresented. We saw the word racism and misted over angrily without understanding or even trying to understand what it meant in the context. Ditto the word chimp. Ditto the word proud.

Edit: actually I think the word proud was intentional misrepresentation.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I think it's been misunderstood as much as misrepresented. We saw the word racism and misted over angrily without understanding or even trying to understand what it meant in the context. Ditto the word chimp. Ditto the word proud.

Edit: actually I think the word proud was intentional misrepresentation.

Ditto the word Collingwood.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Thats my point. Shae says something and its a big sideshow of over reactions then trying to denigrate him. He has his opinion, he stated his opinion and anyone who didnt agree with him did not address his points only his error which he apologised for. Again my point about HL is he should not be commented upon either because NOONE knows the facts, this thread of full of slander to HL for no other reason that he is different and has an opinion (which affects him!) from people who dont want to hear it. Racism and Systematic racism isnt going to go away with silence though so i can understand why HL keeps going on abut it. Nothing is happening to solve it until now with the report. if you want the club to improve YOU should care about the report being addressed.

Where did l say l didn't care about the report? I said people like Shae shouldn't just tweet out of the blue, just to get his name into the spotlight. Don't use this matter to push your own image.
The report will and is currently been dealt with by the club, as we have seen already. Alot more could have been dealt with in a more amicable way, if Heritier had agreed to be part of the external review, instead of using the media as a tool to constantly voice negativity towards the review and the club wanting to implement change.

 

[HeathySure]

Where did l say l didn't care about the report? I said people like Shae shouldn't just tweet out of the blue, just to get his name into the spotlight. Don't use this matter to push your own image.
The report will and is currently been dealt with by the club, as we have seen already. Alot more could have been dealt with in a more amicable way, if Heritier had agreed to be part of the external review, instead of using the media as a tool to constantly voice negativity towards the review and the club wanting to implement change.

whats Shae got to gain out of speaking out?

 

[Markfs]

whats Shae got to gain out of speaking out?

萍乡衔孛物流有限公司

 

[jmac70]

whats Shae got to gain out of speaking out?

I’m with you on the overall topic but can’t say I care too much for Shae. Seems a bit attention seeking.

He kept quiet about it too. Should probably have just apologised without the challenge to others. Not sure that H would appreciate the support from a spoilt white boy.