News Review into racism at Collingwood

[jackcass]

I'm not going to research time lines, but it doesn't seem that long ago that Bucks was dropping hints of mental health issues. Then again, it doesn't seem that long ago to me that Bucks was drilling 55 metre drop punts onto bloke's chests.

Yeah, it was when H started hitting the media again a couple of years ago. He was asked questions and probably should have not been drawn into it. But again, how was it handled by the club post the interview?

 

[HeathySure]

I'm not your bro, peanut.

your really adding to the convo. Should pin all your posts

 

[Capital Magpie]

your really adding to the convo. Should pin all your posts

Cool story bro

 

[sr36]

Yeah, it was when H started hitting the media again a couple of years ago. He was asked questions and probably should have not been drawn into it. But again, how was it handled by the club post the interview?

Do you think that they would have handled it differently between those comments from Bucks and now. To me its not really about racial issues, it's how they handled every negative story that hit the press, right up to Treloar being traded.

 

[Pie eyed]

A man of colour arrives at the club and called himself chimp. I reckon we should have had the awareness to address that. The AFL published this nickname in the Record, so very little awareness there. I see the ‘Do Better’ report as a great thing to happen to our club.‘I reckon we will be all the better for it. That’s pretty much it from me.

I don't agree with your first point because at the time I don't think Harry or most at the players/club thought Harry self-identified as a man of colour. I think they assumed he identified as Brazilian, South American. As did I(maybe ignorantly,but at least innocently).
Harry was born in Brazil of Brazilian mother and Congolese father, who, for all intents and purposes he never met.

It is, even just a decade later, a very different time, racially.

It is not like Harry was forced to sit at the back of the bus.
That I would have expected every player, the coach and the Club to have railed against even 30 years ago.


On your second point regarding the report initiated, at Harry's prompting, by the Collingwood footy club I totally agree.

I was extremely happy that Harry was invited to take part in the review. Extremely.
His refusal left me dumbfounded.
His illogical reasoning behind refusing to take part left me very disenchanted with him.
and questioning his motives and/or sanity.
I still sincerely think Harry has a mental issue which needs addressing and despite the fact the media will undoubtedly crucify the Club for offering I think we should in all good conscience offer Harry help.
If we don't the same self interested s**t stains in the media will treat the issue in the same way they are this issue now, with lies and misinformation.




Lets step back just a few paces.

I am of Anglo heritage.
My mothers ancestors from Ireland, my fathers from Scotland, though one of my direct relatives since arriving in Australia married an indigenous woman, from whom I am directly related, several generations later. I have never considered identifying as anything but Australian and I don't say that for any noble reason, nor because I have any desire to shy away from any part of my heritage, no matter how slight the link.
I simply have no idea what it would be like to be indigenous, have never had to address the fact, nor would ever be comfortable claiming such. Not for some confabulated reason other than I would feel guilty to even compare my life and upbringing to some other people in this country.
So I will not.
I grew up in north QLD in Mackay, went to school with indigenous children, lived in Council housing beside indigenous families in Council housing, went to church with them, socialised with them.
Writing "them" is anathema as I don't consider indigenous people as "apart". They made up the fabric of my childhood and have always been a part of my life, in Canberra, Kalgoorlie and in every Australian city I have lived.

To me these people were just Johnny and Mrs Harris or Mr Ferguson, they came over for barbies, some worked with my Dad, some worked at the Sugar Mill.

However, such is the way of the discussion, that society generally seems to see the issue
as US and THEM.

Which is really the entire problem.

 

[unplugged]

The AFL needs a huge story to get rid of this one. Over a new article or two about it every single day right now.

 

[jathanas]

I don't agree with your first point because at the time I don't think Harry or most at the players/club thought Harry self-identified as a man of colour. I think they assumed he identified as Brazilian, South American. As did I(maybe ignorantly,but at least innocently).
Harry was born in Brazil of Brazilian mother and Congolese father, who, for all intents and purposes he never met.

It is, even just a decade later, a very different time, racially.

It is not like Harry was forced to sit at the back of the bus.
That I would have expected every player, the coach and the Club to have railed against even 30 years ago.


On your second point regarding the report initiated, at Harry's prompting, by the Collingwood footy club I totally agree.

I was extremely happy that Harry was invited to take part in the review. Extremely.
His refusal left me dumbfounded.
His illogical reasoning behind refusing to take part left me very disenchanted with him.
and questioning his motives and/or sanity.
I still sincerely think Harry has a mental issue which needs addressing and despite the fact the media will undoubtedly crucify the Club for offering I think we should in all good conscience offer Harry help.
shot stains in the media in the same way we are now?




Lets step back just a few paces.

I am of Anglo heritage.
My mothers ancestors from Ireland, my fathers from Scotland, though one of my direct relatives since arriving in Australia married an indigenous woman, from whom I am directly related, several generations later. I have never considered identifying as anything but Australian and I don't say that for any noble reason, nor because I have any desire to shy away from any part of my heritage, no matter how slight the link.
I simply have no idea what it would be like to be indigenous, have never had to address the fact, nor would ever be comfortable claiming such. Not for some confabulated reason other than I would feel guilty to even compare my life and upbringing to some other people in this country.
So I will not.
I grew up in north QLD in Mackay, went to school with indigenous children, lived in Council housing beside indigenous families in Council housing, went to church with them, socialised with them.
Writing "them" is anathema as I don't consider indigenous people as "apart". They made up the fabric of my childhood and have always been a part of my life, in Canberra, Kalgoorlie and in every Australian city I have lived.

To me these people were just Johnny and Mrs Harris or Mr Ferguson, they came over for barbies, some worked with my Dad, some worked at the Sugar Mill.

However, such is the way of the discussion, that society generally seems to see the issue
as US and THEM.

Which is really the entire problem.

Thanks for sharing mate, I appreciate your perspective.

H's perspective of his time at the club has shifted dramatically over time and it is entirely his prerogative to do this. In my view it doesn't invalidate his current claims but by the same token if he wasn't clear about his values when he joined, how would one expect the young guys that were his teammates to respect them?

If someone vilified him that changes everything, but my reading of this is that this didn't take place (by a teammate anyway). This is not to say he wasn't hurt by the events as described.

 

[Pie eyed]

The AFL needs a huge story to get rid of this one. Over a new article or two about it every single day right now.

I don't agree.
The Club should ride the issue to the very end.
Hire media liaison to talk about nothing but racism, in sport, at the club, but as importantly in the media.
How many media owner are indigenous? Asian? Female?
What about the campaigners in the media living by their own sword?
How many journalists?
How many footy journalists?
How many female footy journalists at the HUN are Indigenous?
Until the media is sick to ******* death of it.
Shame the campaigners publicly every single time they do not make it the primary issue in every story.
Release a media statement pointing out every time a point made by the club about racism was not published.
Mention racism in every single interview, challenge every reporter in ever piece to continually discuss the same issue, evry day, every comment, ever written word.
make the dog ******* ********** choke to deqath on their own vitriol.

 

[sr36]

The AFL needs a huge story to get rid of this one. Over a new article or two about it every single day right now.

Don't worry it's a matter of time before one of our boys gets really pissed and *s up.

 

[sr36]

Maybe we just don't care, we follow footy for the game not social issues. You want to use it to get on your soap box go right ahead, you are boring IMO but each to their own. You are entitled to your view and I am entitled to mine. If that makes me a racist in your eyes go for. No offence I don't know you so I don't care.

Fair enough if you were in a different thread, but you are in a thread that is clearly pretty labelled as being about a social issue ...

 

[jmac70]

I don't agree with your first point because at the time I don't think Harry or most at the players/club thought Harry self-identified as a man of colour. I think they assumed he identified as Brazilian, South American. As did I(maybe ignorantly,but at least innocently).
Harry was born in Brazil of Brazilian mother and Congolese father, who, for all intents and purposes he never met.

It is, even just a decade later, a very different time, racially.

It is not like Harry was forced to sit at the back of the bus.
That I would have expected every player, the coach and the Club to have railed against even 30 years ago.


On your second point regarding the report initiated, at Harry's prompting, by the Collingwood footy club I totally agree.

I was extremely happy that Harry was invited to take part in the review. Extremely.
His refusal left me dumbfounded.
His illogical reasoning behind refusing to take part left me very disenchanted with him.
and questioning his motives and/or sanity.
I still sincerely think Harry has a mental issue which needs addressing and despite the fact the media will undoubtedly crucify the Club for offering I think we should in all good conscience offer Harry help.
If we don't the same self interested sh*t stains in the media will treat the issue in the same way they are this issue now, with lies and misinformation.




Lets step back just a few paces.

I am of Anglo heritage.
My mothers ancestors from Ireland, my fathers from Scotland, though one of my direct relatives since arriving in Australia married an indigenous woman, from whom I am directly related, several generations later. I have never considered identifying as anything but Australian and I don't say that for any noble reason, nor because I have any desire to shy away from any part of my heritage, no matter how slight the link.
I simply have no idea what it would be like to be indigenous, have never had to address the fact, nor would ever be comfortable claiming such. Not for some confabulated reason other than I would feel guilty to even compare my life and upbringing to some other people in this country.
So I will not.
I grew up in north QLD in Mackay, went to school with indigenous children, lived in Council housing beside indigenous families in Council housing, went to church with them, socialised with them.
Writing "them" is anathema as I don't consider indigenous people as "apart". They made up the fabric of my childhood and have always been a part of my life, in Canberra, Kalgoorlie and in every Australian city I have lived.

To me these people were just Johnny and Mrs Harris or Mr Ferguson, they came over for barbies, some worked with my Dad, some worked at the Sugar Mill.

However, such is the way of the discussion, that society generally seems to see the issue
as US and THEM.

Which is really the entire problem.

I really like your reply. There is some I disagree with, much I like. We both know our opinions on this are settled, and still the discourse is rich and worthy.

We all have a story to tell that is worthy and relevant. At this point in time, I am comfortable within the stance taken by our club. Our views on H differ. He was alway a man of colour when he arrived.

My brother and I used to refer to him as ‘the savage.’ A totally racist term.

I didn’t understand at the time. I do now.

All hurt caused to H, we need to apologise. This is the truth telling. This is how we become BETTER

 

[doppleganger]

I see the ‘Do Better’ report as a great thing to happen to our club.‘I reckon we will be all the better for it.

And that was Eddie's sentiment, and he was driven out of the club for poorly expressing that sentiment

We're talking about consensual name calling between adults, where by all accounts no bystanders were offended. Outrageous that the nanny's didn't jump in

Personally, Im ashamed I used to call him Harry O’Brien. I should have known that it'd later become offensive.

Yep, you should have known that someone who has anglicised their name is already experiencing systemic racism.

Can we still call Daics the Macedonian Marvel? Or does that infer surprise at someone of Macedonian ethnicity being marvellous at 'our' sport?

H WAS big on preaching compassion, education, understanding, community...values that he himself believed once aligned with Collingwood's...when he went by Harry.

Post name change it appears his values also changed, as he pushed his new learned "truths" of racism/white supremacy

 

[jmac70]

And that was Eddie's sentiment, and he was driven out of the club for poorly expressing that sentiment


Yep, you should have known that someone who has anglicised their name is already experiencing systemic racism.

Can we still call Daics the Macedonian Marvel? Or does that infer surprise at someone of Macedonian ethnicity being marvellous at 'our' sport?

H WAS big on preaching compassion, education, understanding, community...values that he himself believed once aligned with Collingwood's...when he went by Harry.

Post name change it appears his values also changed, as he pushed his new learned "truths" of racism/white supremacy

Maybe so, but it was time for him to go.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I really like your reply. There is some I disagree with, much I like. We both know our opinions on this are settled, and still the discourse is rich and worthy.

We all have a story to tell that is worthy and relevant. At this point in time, I am comfortable within the stance taken by our club. Our views on H differ. He was alway a man of colour when he arrived.

My brother and I used to refer to him as ‘the savage.’ A totally racist term.

I didn’t understand at the time. I do now.

All hurt caused to H, we need to apologise. This is the truth telling. This is how we become BETTER

It seems we become even better when we make a large financial deposit to the bank account of the victim. Now that you have publicly confessed to calling Heritier 'the savage', do you not feel an urge to truly cleanse yourself of the sin of vilification by transferring a large sum of money to his account? Now that you understand the error of your youthful words, you must be desperate to atone for them.

 

[sr36]

My brother and I used to refer to him as ‘the savage.’ A totally racist term.

Love you JMac, but I think you may be a bit like me on the golf course. I hook the first one out of bounds, but then over correct and slice the next one into the water. I'm looking forward to your third one, because mine usually flys 300 metres down the centre of the fairway.

 

[doppleganger]

Maybe so, but it was time for him to go.

Very much agree with that.

We needed our own 'focus on footy' group to challenge for the board a few years back.

 

[sr36]

Yep, you should have known that someone who has anglicised their name is already experiencing systemic racism.

In my defence, it's Eddie, MM and Bucks's fault - they should have put a stop to it and not let me call him Harry OBrien. Bloody racist pricks.

 

[jmac70]

It seems we become even better when we make a large financial deposit to the bank account of the victim. Now that you have publicly confessed to calling Heritier 'the savage', do you not feel an urge to truly cleanse yourself of the sin of vilification by transferring a large sum of money to his account? Now that you understand the error of your youthful words, you must be desperate to atone for them.

I’ve told my truth.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yep, you should have known that someone who has anglicised their name is already experiencing systemic racism.

Can we still call Daics the Macedonian Marvel? Or does that infer surprise at someone of Macedonian ethnicity being marvellous at 'our' sport?

H WAS big on preaching compassion, education, understanding, community...values that he himself believed once aligned with Collingwood's...when he went by Harry.

Post name change it appears his values also changed, as he pushed his new learned "truths" of racism/white supremacy

So merely anglicising your name is enough to mount a case that you were the victim of a racist system! It's a bit like calling yourself a nickname then slapping a lawsuit on a club because they didn't prevent you being called what you wanted to be called.

Of course Harry did the name change in reverse, suggesting he was comfortable having an African father and wanted to very publicly celebrate that fact. So he certainly wasn't allowing the racism he had experienced to sweep his confidence or self respect out from under him. He came out early in his carer fighting for all sorts of causes. I find it difficult to believe that if he truly objected to racist nicknames or jokes, he would have been backward in informing other people of his distaste.

 

[doppleganger]

In my defence, it's Eddie, MM and Bucks's fault - they should have put a stop to it and not let me call him Harry OBrien.

Na you cant blame MM, H likes MM...and H accepts MM view that he never heard Chimp used.

I think you can now blame Pendles though, but definitely not MM.

 

[sr36]

Na you cant blame MM, H likes MM...and H accepts MM view that he never heard Chimp used.

I think you can now blame Pendles though, but definitely not MM.

It was Demetriou. Surely he should have been on to it.

 

[sr36]

Interview with a draftee:

Interveiwer:
So tells us about your time at Collingwood so far with all the racial scandals.

Draftee:
It's all a bit so real. But we're just taking it one nickname at a time.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

My brother and I used to refer to him as ‘the savage.’ A totally racist term.

I didn’t understand at the time. I do now.

All hurt caused to H, we need to apologise. This is the truth telling. This is how we become BETTER

I am sure I read somewhere recently that you are 50. If so, you would have been in your mid 30s when you called Harry a savage. Yet you didn't understand at the time it was racist? At 35+! You must have read the correct direction very late in life on your moral compass. But you expect the club to have known then that 'the chimp' was racist.

 

[sr36]

Na you cant blame MM, H likes MM...and H accepts MM view that he never heard Chimp used.

I think you can now blame Pendles though, but definitely not MM.

I've learnt my lesson. We've recruited a new kid - NGA background, with a Scottish sounding name. I'm sure as hell not going to call him McInnes.

 

[jmac70]

I am sure I read somewhere recently that you are 50. If so, you would have been in your mid 30s when you called Harry a savage. Yet you didn't understand at the time it was racist? At 35+! You must have read the correct direction very late in life on your moral compass. But you expect the club to have known then that 'the chimp' was racist.

I need to clarify that I never called him that publicly or with anyone else. It was meant as a term of affection, to describe his style of play, and his dreads. But yes, I should have known better. The world is changing and I think that’s a good thing.