Apple Isle Showdown: Tas Govt threatens to end Hawks, North deals if no plan for 19th side

[Bulldogs85]

They made promises back in 1995. So they have history.

Difference this time around the AFL has never faced this kind of pressure from a Tasmania premier to place a team in the state. The AFL have managed to sweep it under the rug in the past I don’t think they can this time around.

 

[Verdun]

I haven't seen a refusal of a licence, the response I saw was that given the global chaos that is COVID, the AFL needs to see the impact of that on 2021 before giving decisions and time frames.

There's a lot of sensibility in that from a business perspective.

As there's a lot of sensibility from a business perspective for Tasmanian taxpayers to stop sponsoring AFL clubs.

I'm heavily involved in basketball in Tasmania and have to admit the amount of money that is being committed to a NBL team here is phenomenal. I hope this flows through to grass roots basketball and new courts as the growth in the sport outweighs the facilities ie courts.

It is almost like Gutwein is putting his finger up at Gil for the way the AFL has treated Tas and said ok we will invest in our own National team in another sport. If the AFL had at least given a template for a transition to a team this could have occurred for footy.

Doesn't matter what others think of the state or their lack of knowledge on the economy here, it is thriving compared to others.

Bout time Tasmania stood up to the AFL have been shafted for decades.

 

[telsor]

Playing dumb, how quaint.

Because it's a positive for Tassie and its AFL bid, and we can't have that, can we?

But of course, you support a Tasmanian AFL side, don't you? (As if).

I don't consider Mildura a suitable spot for an AFL team...Do you think I'd be "shattered" if they had a period of good economic performance?

Not thinking somewhere has the population and economic base to support a team doesn't mean I wish that place ill.

 

[telsor]

Living in the past now are we?

When you're looking at a deal that will stretch decades into the future, long term trends apply.

One year of good performance (in a highly unusual year at that) doesn't change the fact that over the longer term Tas has been going backwards compared to the rest of the country.

If you want to boast about the Tas economy, come back to me when you're not leaching of the mainland quite so much.

 

[eastfreo75]

Difference this time around the AFL has never faced this kind of pressure from a Tasmania premier to place a team in the state. The AFL have managed to sweep it under the rug in the past I don’t think they can this time around.

AFL will need to make a decision.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Money isn't the issue. It takes sfa for a state to fund an afl club.
The issue will always be player retention. If the Tassie government want a team down there then they need to invest in things that make it an attractive place for cashed up kids to spend their twenties. A major uni would be a nice start.
As Chisel said 'The money I make won't buy back my youth again.'

You need one thing for retention: success.

Major and successful sporting clubs the world over are located in relative shitholes. Players still dream of going to them because they’re the biggest and best. And they got that way by winning.

If Tassie can build a welcoming and winning culture, develop players effectively and play finals regularly, they’ll have no issues retaining players.

 

[juss]

As there's a lot of sensibility from a business perspective for Tasmanian taxpayers to stop sponsoring AFL clubs.

I'm heavily involved in basketball in Tasmania and have to admit the amount of money that is being committed to a NBL team here is phenomenal. I hope this flows through to grass roots basketball and new courts as the growth in the sport outweighs the facilities ie courts.

It is almost like Gutwein is putting his finger up at Gil for the way the AFL has treated Tas and said ok we will invest in our own National team in another sport. If the AFL had at least given a template for a transition to a team this could have occurred for footy.

Doesn't matter what others think of the state or their lack of knowledge on the economy here, it is thriving compared to others.

Bout time Tasmania stood up to the AFL have been shafted for decades.

No issues with Tassie premier playing some hard ball.

Just noting given the uncertainty of the current global and Australian situation with COVID, a short term wait and see approach through this critical 2021 period is a sensible idea and hardly the atrocity some are making out. If 2025 was the aim, that can still occur with a decision at the end of the season, or at worst maybe this pushes it back to 2026. Hardly a disaster.

 

[Financialpanther]

When you're looking at a deal that will stretch decades into the future, long term trends apply.

One year of good performance (in a highly unusual year at that) doesn't change the fact that over the longer term Tas has been going backwards compared to the rest of the country.

If you want to boast about the Tas economy, come back to me when you're not leaching of the mainland quite so much.

But it’s not just one year though but the continuation of a 4 year trend. I take exception to the notion it’s one year but acknowledge the pace of growth in absolute terms will always lag the larger states. Right now it’s got quite a reasonable economy and something worthy of boasting of. It’s a stable economy in recent years and is unable to hit the highs of other states given the low population and infrastructure base. Given its size, Tis an easy target for frustration given how big the rest of Australia is.

For what it’s worth, I have never believed the state to be able to sustain an AFL team but similarly don’t like the one sided deal the AFL has run for some time.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Gill is a pathetic Yes man, but blaming him solely shows no nuance.

You have to ask yourself, who runs the AFL and for whos benefit?

The answer to this is the Victorian State Government and the conglomerate of big Victorian clubs, and the trickle down to the small legacy Vic clubs.

So then you ask yourself what is the motivation for them refusing Tasmania a licence. Only then will you understand how to combat it. I think what the Tasmanian Premier is doing is the correct option. Its time to end the benevolent abusive relationship Tasmania has with Victoria.

Yawn

Given the AFLs overwhelming driving force is $$$, if there was money to be made in a Tas team, the AFL would have been there years ago.

 

[Verdun]

When you're looking at a deal that will stretch decades into the future, long term trends apply.

One year of good performance (in a highly unusual year at that) doesn't change the fact that over the longer term Tas has been going backwards compared to the rest of the country.

If you want to boast about the Tas economy, come back to me when you're not leaching of the mainland quite so much.

Serious question - why are you so invested in this discussion? Reckon you post on any topic involving Tasmania more than any other poster.

Yep good to have diversity of opinions but I find it intriguing, not your opinion (which is just that) but the amount you post.

 

[telsor]

Tigers are forced to play at the G?

Return to Punt Road.

To cover your second point first, we can't really play at Punt Road. The road was widened in the 60s and our ground was no longer an oval, so we needed to find a new home (not that that has stopped Geelong). We did look at other options (St Kilda's 'spiritual home' at Moorabbin is theirs because we knocked it back for example), but the proximity to the MCG was a big factor. We also got a much better deal back then. Major renovations in the past decade have made it oval again, but at the cost of eliminating crowd capacity to levels unrealistic for an AFL match.

As for being forced to play at the MCG...Yes, we are. The AFL dictates where all clubs play (as demonstrated by MCG based clubs being forced to play 'home' games at docklands), and they signed a deal with the MCC specifying a minimum number of games at the ground and that THEY get paid a bonus for big crowds.

There is also the point that non Vic fans would whinge (even more, if that's possible) about the MCG being the GF venue if Vic clubs could move games where they wanted and they lost their chance to play there as often.

 

[Verdun]

No issues with Tassie premier playing some hard ball.

Just noting given the uncertainty of the current global and Australian situation with COVID, a short term wait and see approach through this critical 2021 period is a sensible idea and hardly the atrocity some are making out. If 2025 was the aim, that can still occur with a decision at the end of the season, or at worst maybe this pushes it back to 2026. Hardly a disaster.

Fair post, reckon we will not be sponsoring Hawthorn and North by then.

Good business decision.

 

[Papa G]

Serious question - why are you so invested in this discussion? Reckon you post on any topic involving Tasmania more than any other poster.

Yep good to have diversity of opinions but I find it intriguing, not your opinion (which is just that) but the amount you post.

Yeah I've always wondered why she hates Tassie so much.

 

[eastfreo75]

To cover your second point first, we can't really play at Punt Road. The road was widened in the 60s and our ground was no longer an oval, so we needed to find a new home (not that that has stopped Geelong). We did look at other options (St Kilda's 'spiritual home' at Moorabbin is theirs because we knocked it back for example), but the proximity to the MCG was a big factor. We also got a much better deal back then. Major renovations in the past decade have made it oval again, but at the cost of eliminating crowd capacity to levels unrealistic for an AFL match.

As for being forced to play at the MCG...Yes, we are. The AFL dictates where all clubs play (as demonstrated by MCG based clubs being forced to play 'home' games at docklands), and they signed a deal with the MCC specifying a minimum number of games at the ground and that THEY get paid a bonus for big crowds.

There is also the point that non Vic fans would whinge (even more, if that's possible) about the MCG being the GF venue if Vic clubs could move games where they wanted and they lost their chance to play there as often.

lol

Richmond moved to the G in 1965.

 

[madmug]

Gill's response didn't say no, it says they will take time to conduct a more thorough review, but chiefly its around holding ground until there is more certainty of the financial position of the game and existing clubs after what could be another COVID impacted season or more cuts and job losses.

Anyway you look at it, that's a sensible business decision to see where things are at rather than jumping in and committing now. Covid aside, Tassie should and will get a team one day. But taking some time to see how 2021 plays out before such a huge venture isn't a bad thing, its sensible.

Its not like Tassie was going to have a team in 2022 anyway, this likely at worst delays any team by 1 season from what it would have been. If the business case is sound after the assesment, then maybe the introduction can be accelerated.

Gill has f’ed up a lot of things with our game, but honestly given the circumstances at the moment this is a sensible decision to just slow down and cautiously see how 2021 goes.

Jumping in?

We first had a promise in 1995.

Then an actual application in 2005.

Then a much move researched application forwarded 12 months ago. Done by people who would not sign a useless bit of emotive rubbish.

The AFL could easily have shunted the application off to some sub committee & 'independent' parties anytime in the last 12 months for any kind of preliminary or in depth 'review'.

Gil was here on a number of occasions 3 years ago regarding the state of the game.

He had the 2015 Simon Garlick report which Simon Lethlean had control of'

Its just pathetic & a cop out to not be much closer to an answer to a pathway that has a team ready in 4-5 years.

I mean FFS, Gil, show some initiative & guts & leadership for once in your most underwhelming tenure as CEO.

 

[Bulldogs85]

AFL will need to make a decision.

I agree it’s either a yes or a no

 

[telsor]

Serious question - why are you so invested in this discussion? Reckon you post on any topic involving Tasmania more than any other poster.

Yep good to have diversity of opinions but I find it intriguing, not your opinion (which is just that) but the amount you post.

Initially it was because the calls for a Tas club always included gleeful calls for killing off Vic clubs 'because they were so poor', and I just pointed out that a Tas club would be even poorer, with worse long term prospects, so that made no sense.

Of course, rather than respond with sense and logic, many 'pro-tas' fans (who in many cases just hated Vic and wanted an excuse to kill off Vic clubs) responded with personal attacks, and being an ornery type, rather than drive me away as they intended, that just got my back up.

Now it's mostly just calling out their half truths, delusions and outright bullshit they state as fact to support the idea. Reality can be hard for them.

As a thought experiment, look at their arguments sometime and substitute a regional area/town in Vic/WA/SA....Take Bendigo for example...If the vast majority of their 'arguments' would still apply (history of great players, decline in recent years/decades, supposed AFL neglect), then it's stuff adding an AFL team wont help with....Yet this is generally the core of their argument.

I'm not opposed to a Tas team in principle, but it should be part of a much larger discussion about what the league should look like in 50(?) years...How big do we want it, what criteria do we put on having/keeping clubs, how does the lower tier comps fit in with this, how do we balance expansion (NSW/QLD) with the heartland, etc? Adding a team just because one region is having an emotion based whinge isn't a smart way to run a league. Of course doing that might require several years of examination and planning, and the result wont please everyone, so cue the sookfest.

 

[telsor]

lol

Richmond moved to the G in 1965.

Yes, when Punt road was widened and Punt Road oval was no longer usable, as I said.

 

[madmug]

When you're looking at a deal that will stretch decades into the future, long term trends apply.

One year of good performance (in a highly unusual year at that) doesn't change the fact that over the longer term Tas has been going backwards compared to the rest of the country.

If you want to boast about the Tas economy, come back to me when you're not leaching of the mainland quite so much.

Thats 'leaching off'.

For someone who touts using facts, this is quite emotive & not addressing the current position.

Baiting isn't usually your style. Have you had a bad lockdown or 3?

Anyway, the figures are saying Melbourne will have 400k less people than was originally predicted by the end of 2022. That alone changes the cities economic position. Its a worry given the economy has been predicated on population growth for so long now.

Given the massive spend in NSW & Qld, maybe the AFL are looking at their own backyard of 'established clubs, with trepidation?

 

[Verdun]

Initially it was because the calls for a Tas club always included gleeful calls for killing off Vic clubs 'because they were so poor', and I just pointed out that a Tas club would be even poorer, with worse long term prospects, so that made no sense.

Of course, rather than respond with sense and logic, many 'pro-tas' fans (who in many cases just hated Vic and wanted an excuse to kill off Vic clubs) responded with personal attacks, and being an ornery type, rather than drive me away as they intended, that just got my back up.

Now it's mostly just calling out their half truths, delusions and outright bullshit they state as fact to support the idea. Reality can be hard for them.

As a thought experiment, look at their arguments sometime and substitute a regional area/town in Vic/WA/SA....Take Bendigo for example...If the vast majority of their 'arguments' would still apply (history of great players, decline in recent years/decades, supposed AFL neglect), then it's stuff adding an AFL team wont help with....Yet this is generally the core of their argument.

I'm not opposed to a Tas team in principle, but it should be part of a much larger discussion about what the league should look like in 50(?) years...How big do we want it, what criteria do we put on having/keeping clubs, how does the lower tier comps fit in with this, how do we balance expansion (NSW/QLD) with the heartland, etc? Adding a team just because one region is having an emotion based whinge isn't a smart way to run a league. Of course doing that might require several years of examination and planning, and the result wont please everyone, so cue the sookfest.

We are so lucky to have your insight with such logic as:

.' require several years of examination and planning, and the result wont please everyone, so cue the sookfest.'!!!!! Several years - seriously?

Your post is full of opinion not logic. We are not Bendigo.

Your post does not answer my question why do you spend so much time on Tasmania?

Quite an emotive post from you, which you deride others for, calm down.


I have never called for other teams to be culled your emotion is getting the better of you.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

A supporters perspective:

I’d go watch Port play a team in Tasmania. When the draw is released we plan a couple of trips. High on the priority list are trips to Metricon, Geelong, and the Northern Territory. These games are always great fun.
Metricon is a fantastic boutique open air stadium at the goldis a fun 3-day break.
The Geelong match has always been great and the revamped stadium has provided a trip unique with balance between traditional community ground, and a modern, convenience filled stadium.
The territory is just a blast and provides the ‘anchor’ for a wider trip through the Territory.

I have no doubt a trip to Tasmania would be great. Pack the MTB and head to Derby for a couple days on the trails; get boozy in the Tamar; eat a scallop pie or salmon sausage at the markets. That’s not even counting MONA, Targa Tasmania, or the fantastic sailing options.

I’d go watch my team annually in Tasmania. The only variable would be as a 1,3,5,or 7 day trip.

I am just 1 fan of 1 team, but the micro is as important as the macro for some of these decisions.

I hope they get a team.

 

[telsor]

We are so lucky to have your insight with such logic as:

Yes, you are.

.' require several years of examination and planning, and the result wont please everyone, so cue the sookfest.'!!!!! Several years - seriously?

To put together a comprehensive strategy for the game across the entire country for the next 50 odd years. Yes. Assuming you want it done well.

Your post is full of opinion not logic. We are not Bendigo.

I didn't say you were. I said most of the arguments used to support a Tas team applied to both.

Your post does not answer my question why do you spend so much time on Tasmania?

Because people lie so much in these threads, and I consider calling out liars to be a duty.

Quite an emotive post from you, which you deride others for, calm down.

I don't deride others for being emotive.

I have never called for other teams to be culled your emotion is getting the better of you.

Where did I say you did?

 

[telsor]

Thats 'leaching off'.

For someone who touts using facts, this is quite emotive & not addressing the current position.

Baiting isn't usually your style. Have you had a bad lockdown or 3?

Anyway, the figures are saying Melbourne will have 400k less people than was originally predicted by the end of 2022. That alone changes the cities economic position. Its a worry given the economy has been predicated on population growth for so long now.

Given the massive spend in NSW & Qld, maybe the AFL are looking at their own backyard of 'established clubs, with trepidation?

Maybe they're doing a lot of things.

That's the point...it's an uncertain and volatile situation. Not one where you'd want to make massive commitments (like supporting a Tas team) in.

So taking another year for further examination and to let thing settle down is entirely reasonable.

 

[Verdun]

Yes, you are.



To put together a comprehensive strategy for the game across the entire country for the next 50 odd years. Yes. Assuming you want it done well.



I didn't say you were. I said most of the arguments used to support a Tas team applied to both.



Because people lie so much in these threads, and I consider calling out liars to be a duty.



I don't deride others for being emotive.



Where did I say you did?

Wow - I've been out and mowed the lawns, had lunch and come back for a cold drink and you are still going. I now get that you like to have your opinion heard.

If you sponsored an Tasmanian AFL for each post you do we would have had one years ago

 

[Kappa]

Fair - but it would at least be a gesture that is a helluva lot meaningful than we give you the privilege of handing $8m to two Victorian teams to play in your state

Handing? It's a tourism investment and people act like it's a charitable donation...