Martin going to the Swans?

[north_lad]

He is one of the very few players from the 50's I have heard of, and only because of his coaching career that lasted until the 90's

So many of your arguments in this thread are subjective. "I've never heard of this guy and have no idea how many flags this guy won"

So the word of RUNVS is representative of the collective consciousness of how all other people remember footballers and their careers? Give me a ******* break. FWIW I agree that Buddy will be remembered for a long time but if you don't think Martin will be too you seriously have a rock for a brain.

 

[Seeds]

But we do and that's all that matters

This is true.

 

[RUNVS]

So many of your arguments in this thread are subjective. "I've never heard of this guy and have no idea how many flags this guy won"

So the word of RUNVS is representative of the collective consciousness of how all other people remember footballers and their careers? Give me a ******* break. FWIW I agree that Buddy will be remembered for a long time but if you don't think Martin will be too you seriously have a rock for a brain.

Alright then, if you surveyed every AFL member (people who would likely know more about AFL history than the average person) how many of them as a percentage do you think would have heard of Alistair Lord?

 

[The Warlord]

In a century from now people will still be talking about Buddy, while Martin will have long since been forgotten about.

People will say, jeez if Buddy had stayed at Hawthorn, he'd probably be remembered in the same bracket at the true upper echelon like Carey and Dustin Martin.

Instead, he's in that rung below, with the likes of Chris Judd.

 

[Chuckie357]

Dunno the media had a lot to do with his four goals in last years Granny
Or the fact that only one other bloke has had 20+ Poss and multiple goals in three grand finals.
...it wasn’t a saints player

Yeah one deserving medal ok

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Sounds like he prefers the Sydney lifestyle...

Martin linked to Franklin replacement

What is the basis for this story?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

In a century from now people will still be talking about Buddy, while Martin will have long since been forgotten about.

Why will Buddy be talked about in a century? Part of 2 flags, so was Shannon Byrnes. Couldn't kick on his opposite side, not very good overhead, didn't kick a 1,000 goals.

On the other hand, it will either be the only player to win 3 Norm Smith Medals or the first player to win 3 Norm Smith Medals and the greatest finals player we've seen or the greatest finals player in the first 150 years of the competition.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Ralph was stringing this poor sap along. Would've been better off running with Bolton to Sydney.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I’m talking in 100 years like the Swans dude said. Can anyone here name the norm Smith/grand final award equivalent winner for the 1921 grand final?

There was no equivalent in 1921. There was no equivalent before it was first awarded in 1979 to Harmes.

 

[captain blood 17]

 

[captain blood 17]

In a century from now people will still be talking about Buddy, while Martin will have long since been forgotten about.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Exactly, and while I am sure having video footage will help keep these players in the public consciousness will somewhat help just think of all the players that played in the 80's that have basically already been forgotten. It isn't hard to believe that in a few decades time only 1% of players who played in the 80's will be remembered or known by the average football fan, and that number will get lower with every passing year.

Take for example Haydn Bunton Sr. This guy is a triple Brownlow medal winner (31, 32, 35) but until I looked him up I have never heard of him.

Not to mention Ivor Warne-Smith who is a duel Brownlow medal winner, as is Dick Reynolds and Bill Hutchison. These guys were once greats of the game and for the most part have been largely forgotten by history.

Can't blame others for your lack of historical knowledge.

There's a few non-negotiables that any footy head should know. You don't necessarily have to know the numbers, but should at least know the club / name.

Triple Brownlow Medallists
Haydn Bunton Snr (also won the Sandover Medal in WA 3 times, I can't believe you had to look him up, he's even from NSW)
Dick Reynolds
Bobby Skilton
Ian Stewart.

Players that have kicked over 1,000 career goals
Tony Lockett
Gordon Coventry
Jason Dunstall
Doug Wage
Gary Ablett Snr

Multiple Norm Smith Medal Winners
Dustin Martin x 3
Gary Ayres x 2
Andrew McLeod x 2
Luke Hodge x 2

Norm Smith Medal Winners from Losing Teams
Maurice Rioli
Gary Ablett Snr
Nathan Buckley
Chris Judd

Most Premierships in a row (you should know Collingwood at the very minimum)
Collingwood x 4
Carlton x 3
Melbourne x 3 (2 times)
Brisbane x 3
Hawthorn x 3

Most Goals in a GF
Gary Ablett Snr x 9

Most Goals in a Finals Series
Gary Ablett Snr x 27

Highest Goal Average Per Game
Peter Hudson 5.64

Biggest Crowd at a GF
1970 Collingwood v Carlton 121,696 (you don't need to know the exact number, just that 1970 is the correct answer)

Biggest Half Time Deficit
44 points Carlton, 1970 (Teddy Hopkins, footy folklore)

Highest Score
Geelong 37.19 239 v Brisbane

Most Goals in a game
18 Fred Fanning

Most Goals in a Season
Bob Pratt x 150 (kicked the first 100 in 13 games)
Peter Hudson x 150 (choking in the quest to break the record in the 1971 GF and got knocked out by Cowboy Neale)

Most Premierships
Essendon x 16
Carlton x 16

Most Wooden Spoons
St Kilda x 27

Most Games Played
Brent Harvey

Over 400 Games Played
Brent Harvey
Michael Tuck
Kevin Barlett
Dustin Fletcher

Most Grand Final Appearances By A Player
Michael Tuck x 11

Most Premierships Won By A Player
Michael Tuck x 7

Most Premierships Won By A Player / Coach
Ronald Dale Barassi Jnr x 10, 6 as a player and 4 as a coach.

 

[CarnTheScray]

There was no equivalent in 1921. There was no equivalent before it was first awarded in 1979 to Harmes.

Hence why I said “award equivalent”, could mean best on ground, whoever the best performer was.

 

[RUNVS]

Can't blame others for your lack of historical knowledge.

There's a few non-negotiables that any footy head should know. You don't necessarily have to know the numbers, but should at least know the club / name.

Triple Brownlow Medallists
Haydn Bunton Snr (also won the Sandover Medal in WA 3 times, I can't believe you had to look him up, he's even from NSW)
Bobby Skilton
Ian Stewart.

Players that have kicked over 1,000 career goals
Tony Lockett
Gordon Coventry
Jason Dunstall
Doug Wage
Gary Ablett Snr

Multiple Norm Smith Medal Winners
Dustin Martin x 3
Gary Ayres x 2
Andrew McLeod x 2
Luke Hodge x 2

Norm Smith Medal Winners from Losing Teams
Maurice Rioli
Gary Ablett Snr
Nathan Buckley
Chris Judd

Most Premierships in a row (you should know Collingwood at the very minimum)
Collingwood x 4
Carlton x 3
Melbourne x 3 (2 times)
Brisbane x 3
Hawthorn x 3

Most Goals in a GF
Gary Ablett Snr x 9

Most Goals in a Finals Series
Gary Ablett Snr x 27

Highest Goal Average Per Game
Peter Hudson 5.64

Biggest Crowd at a GF
1970 Collingwood v Carlton 121,696 (you don't need to know the exact number, just that 1970 is the correct answer)

Biggest Half Time Deficit
44 points Carlton, 1970 (Teddy Hopkins, footy folklore)

Highest Score
Geelong 37.19 239 v Brisbane

Most Goals in a game
18 Fred Fanning

Most Goals in a Season
Bob Pratt x 150 (kicked the first 100 in 13 games)
Peter Hudson x 150 (choking in the quest to break the record in the 1971 GF and got knocked out by Cowboy Neale)

Most Premierships
Essendon x 16
Carlton x 16

Most Wooden Spoons
St Kilda x 27

Most Games Played
Brent Harvey

Over 400 Games Played
Brent Harvey
Michael Tuck
Kevin Barlett
Dustin Fletcher

Most Grand Final Appearances By A Player
Michael Tuck x 11

Most Premierships Won By A Player
Michael Tuck x 7

Most Premierships Won By A Player / Coach
Ronald Dale Barassi Jnr x 10, 6 as a player and 4 as a coach.

So you just happened to know without googling it that the highest ever Grand Final crowd was 121,696?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

People remember players from 80, 90, 100 years ago because they were amazing players, but no one remembers the details. Someone like Polly Farmer was a great player, everyone knows that, but most people would not remember if he won 0 premierships or if he won 7. It ultimately does not matter to the legacy of Polly Farmer.

I could tell you that he won 1 VFL / AFL premiership in 1963, was an inaugural AF Hall of Fame Legend and was picked at first ruck in the Hall of Fame, Team of the Century. Maybe 2 x AA in the carnival days, and not sure about club b&f's. He won at least one at Geelong and more in WA.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

So you just happened to know without googling it that the highest ever Grand Final crowd was 121,696?

I didn't know the 696 but I certainly knew it was 121,000 and something. It's like knowing Bradman's batting average was 99.94 and if he'd just scored 4 runs in his last innings, it would have been 100 even. Instead he was bowled by someone named Hollies for a duck. 6,996 career test runs and was dismissed 70 times in 80 innings from 51 tests.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Hence why I said “award equivalent”, could mean best on ground, whoever the best performer was.

But the best player on the ground could have been from the losing team. Hence why I said there was no equivalent. I have no doubt each individual club probably awarded a trophy for their best player in the gf.

 

[telsor]

You mention Buddy will be remembered though...what attributes will he be remembered for?

As a cautionary tale about long, expensive contracts.

 

[HTT]

Yeah one deserving medal ok

2019 & 2020 are indisputable. He was BOG.
2017 is disputable, I have him and Houli pretty much equal. Houli was stiff to miss out, but if Houli had won, Dusty would’ve been equally stiff.

 

[Farang83150]

What is the basis for this story?

More money I guess...

 

[Sweet Jesus]

More money I guess...

But what is the source of this speculation?

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

In a century from now people will still be talking about Buddy, while Martin will have long since been forgotten about.

you do realise Martin is an actual record holder and will probably go down as the greatest grand final performer ever.

Buddy has no records. What exactly will he be remembered for? Tony Lockett will hold more longevity than Franklin for this reason.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So you just happened to know without googling it that the highest ever Grand Final crowd was 121,696?

I think you are fighting a losing battle here RUNVS. Not sure where you grew up but in my childhood in the 70’s & 80’s I could have reeled off some names from that 2021 Tiger flag team. Certainly Vic Thorpe, the champion Full Back, Dan Minogue the C-C of the Tiger’s 20-21 flag teams, Donald Don. The legendary George Rudolph also played for the Tigers around this era:


Vic. Thorp remembers George Rudolph

"In a match against New South Wales occurred one of the most
comical incidents I have seen.
George Rudolph, a regular outlaw to football convention, stood
at one end of the ground smoking a cigarette while the game was
in progress.
The ball was kicked to him.
He took a one-handed mark, holding the precious cigarette in
the other.
Then turning sharply, he collided with the umpire and knocked
him cold.
There stood George; a cigarette in one hand, and the ball in
the other, looking down at the prostrate umpire.
Pivoting on his heels, Georgc kicked the ball through the goals,
put the cigarette in his mouth, and then stooped down and
picked up the umpire.”


Used to hear about all these guys as a kid. And Dick Lee who as the Magpies Full Forward had a lot of great battles with Thorpe. Jack Reagan the prince of Full Backs. The Collier and Coventry Brothers, all legends of the great Magpie multiple flag teams.

Dick Reynolds, Bunton, I could have told you all about them. Reynolds I am pretty sure was involved in about 6 or 7 flags as player and Coach, some of those as C-C.

Jock McHale was legendary for the amount of flags he had coached, as was Norm Smith. Bob Pratt, Laurie Nash of the Swans 1930’s foreign legion were really well known.

I could go on and on and on, most players with really unique or significant deeds in the game I heard about with some regularity.

The Courage of great Demon Jack Mueller, starred in three Premierships, Dustin Martin style, with two missing fingers he had lost in an accident.

When I grew up, if you really followed footy, you heard and read about these people and incidents etc regularly. Even the likes of Bomber great champion who played in their VFA and early VFL days, Albert Thurgood. If you had even a minor interest in the history of the game or the history of your club, you knew about these guys.

Bulldogs 1954 inaugural Premiership C-C Charlie Sutton. As I said, could go on and on and on.

You needed to get out of under that RUNVS rock!

 

[terrybull]

I’m talking in 100 years like the Swans dude said. Can anyone here name the norm Smith/grand final award equivalent winner for the 1921 grand final?

Hope not! Norm Smith was just six years old in 1921.

 

[terrybull]

Exactly, and while I am sure having video footage will help keep these players in the public consciousness will somewhat help just think of all the players that played in the 80's that have basically already been forgotten. It isn't hard to believe that in a few decades time only 1% of players who played in the 80's will be remembered or known by the average football fan, and that number will get lower with every passing year.

Take for example Haydn Bunton Sr. This guy is a triple Brownlow medal winner (31, 32, 35) but until I looked him up I have never heard of him.

Not to mention Ivor Warne-Smith who is a duel Brownlow medal winner, as is Dick Reynolds and Bill Hutchison. These guys were once greats of the game and for the most part have been largely forgotten by history.

But going with this logic then it includes everybody in time. Including Pratt who was mentioned before.

I guess Cazaly might be the only one remembered by everyone because of the song.