List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[Ash24]

Would that make it unofficially three spots now if Newman's injury turns out to be 12-16 weeks? (Pick #78, Kemp, Newman)

No, LTI is for the season, which none at this stage are being counted for. Just the 1 spot remains open as a shortfall on the list spot from the rookie draft.

Bellow are the most up to date rules I could find.

Section 26.4 states that an injury of minimum of 8 weeks out, grants allocation to the LTI list. I'm sure the club probably knows better that I do, but if Charlie, Newman and Kemp were all allowed to be on the LTI list, plus the already vacant list spot, is that 4 positions available?

If so, some KPD depth would be my priority followed by KPF/ruck.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL-Rules-June-2017.PDF

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Crocker is a quality player who has had a tough few years because of family circumstances - Adelaide was probably not the best choice for him after he was cut from Collingwood- which in the context of what has happened since doesn't mean much. All the best to him if he makes our list.

I liked the kid in his draft year...
Certainly a very capable medium forward, good pace and knows where the goals are, still an area of the ground that we don’t bat deep in list wise, still some unproven talent we are waiting on in their early years...
But we also certainly need another KKP backup due too lack of depth list wise...

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I liked the kid in his draft year...
Certainly a very capable medium forward, good pace and knows where the goals are, still an area of the ground that we don’t bat deep in list wise, still some unproven talent we are waiting on in their early years...
But we also certainly need another KKP backup due too lack of depth list wise...

I'm with ya FBB.....I remember seeing him play against us at the G a few years back when he was still with the Pies, and played a cracking game. He was interviewed on SEN last year, and he seems like a really good guy as well....been through a lot in recent years, but seems to be in a good space.

Probably the fact he kicked a lazy 4 or 5 in the scratch match last week also put him in the eye of the recruiters.

 

[The Bighouse]

Bellow are the most up to date rules I could find.

Section 26.4 states that an injury of minimum of 8 weeks out, grants allocation to the LTI list. I'm sure the club probably knows better that I do, but if Charlie, Newman and Kemp were all allowed to be on the LTI list, plus the already vacant list spot, is that 4 positions available?

If so, some KPD depth would be my priority followed by KPF/ruck.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL-Rules-June-2017.PDF

A bit changed since 2017 with the rookie set up.
LTI applies for 6 weeks MIN where teams are able to promote Category B rookie-listed players in place of teammates who are moved onto the LTI.
It’s the inactive** list where you can promote a new player onto the list, either with a season ending injury, or a retirement.
**that’s the new name

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I'm with ya FBB.....I remember seeing him play against us at the G a few years back when he was still with the Pies, and played a cracking game. He was interviewed on SEN last year, and he seems like a really good guy as well....been through a lot in recent years, but seems to be in a good space.

Probably the fact he kicked a lazy 4 or 5 in the scratch match last week also put him in the eye of the recruiters.

From what i remember he did play a good game against us, great to hear his in a good space, I’d imagine it’s not only the 4/5 goal intraclub performance but his entire work rate/training standards that have possibly stood out to everyone therefore elevating him up into contention as a list choice if he continues impressing the club...
Good luck too the lad...

 

[Ash24]

A bit changed since 2017 with the rookie set up.
LTI applies for 6 weeks MIN where teams are able to promote Category B rookie-listed players in place of teammates who are moved onto the LTI.
It’s the inactive** list where you can promote a new player onto the list, either with a season ending injury, or a retirement.
**that’s the new name

Thanks for that. So are the qualifications for the inactive list that the player does not play the entire year?

 

[The Bighouse]

Thanks for that. So are the qualifications for the inactive list that the player does not play the entire year?

As far as I’m aware. E.g. we had Doc’s spot replaced under injury & also another spot opened up when Pickett retired. Same with Bugg after he gave it up.

 

[Thurlo]

Crocker is a quality player who has had a tough few years because of family circumstances - Adelaide was probably not the best choice for him after he was cut from Collingwood- which in the context of what has happened since doesn't mean much. All the best to him if he makes our list.

I just had a bit of a look at him over on the Crows board. In that thread, there is a link to him talking to the players when he arrived about his dads situation and about himself. He spoke incredibly well, very humble and accepting that life isn't always fair. He certainly looks like someone who has faced his fair share of challenges and does his best to go with the hand that he has been dealt.

Would certainly be happy to see someone of his character within our playing group and it certainly seems like he is someone who deserves to have a few things fall in his favour.

Welcome Rookie Draft Pick #21 - Ben Crocker

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2018-04-12/ben-crockers-inspirational-story Good interview. His dad has Alzheimer’s disease, early onset.

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Milshouse]

I think for me it's draft best kpd next year for jones with our first pick, then a forward ruck pick 2 to relpace levi, 2022, draft best key forward for the long term, only thing is if our progress continues our first picks go into the teens, quality tall kpp quite often go early in the draft, top 10, otherwise there're somewhat project/unknown afl quality

 

[iAsbestos]

Crocker is rubbish did sweet stuff all at Collingwood or Adelaide vfl specialist.

 

[The Bighouse]

I think for me it's draft best kpd next year for jones with our first pick, then a forward ruck pick 2 to relpace levi, 2022, draft best key forward for the long term, only thing is if our progress continues our first picks go into the teens, quality tall kpp quite often go early in the draft, top 10, otherwise there're somewhat project/unknown afl quality

Ideally there’s some promising draftees that missed out last year who show their wares playing this season in n the lower levels where we can snap up a KP or the ruck you mentioned in the mid-season draft this year.
We may not have high end picks avail at this draft if we go the top tier midfielder we’ve been linked to previously.

 

[Juddernaut08]

he could add to what is a fairly notable shift in (potential?) small forward depth over the past couple of years...

Eddie, Fish, Gibbons, Fogarty, Durdin, Cuningham, Murphy, Honey, Owies, Crocker...

Feels like not that long ago we were hanging our hopes on Pickett, Garlett, Polson, Lamb...

That list is still very questionable though

Eddie - probably his last year, even if serviceable will not be a long term option
Fish - gun, but not sure he's suited as a pure small forward
Gibbons - good mid, below average small forward
Fogarty - heaps of potential, but unproven
Durdin - ditto, heaps of potential, but unproven
Cuningham - has not shown much in the opportunities given
Murphy - love him but no
Honey - raw
Owies - raw
Crocker - fringe

 

[Blue__Balls]

I think for me it's draft best kpd next year for jones with our first pick, then a forward ruck pick 2 to relpace levi, 2022, draft best key forward for the long term, only thing is if our progress continues our first picks go into the teens, quality tall kpp quite often go early in the draft, top 10, otherwise there're somewhat project/unknown afl quality

I think this approach is problematic. We may get lucky and see a suitable KPD or ruck at whatever pick(s) we hold, but we should in no way reach for those types.

I'd rather look for both these types via trade/free agency given the time that goes into developing them, or take them with second round picks at best.

Any defender we bring in is playing second fiddle to Weiters for the best part of a decade anyway, so what we need there is a disciplined, reliable stopper, not a star. And a forward/ruck may have to play alongside Harry and Charlie, and support TDK, for the same length of time, so we don't want to overinvest there either. Think it's more likely that a ruck/forward is depth for both positions rather than a Best 22 starter.

One player I'd absolutely be looking at is Jarrod Brander. Can play either end as a second or third tall, as well as on the wing. Think he'd potentially take Levi's spot in the 22 next year, with Casboult still being retained as versatile depth. Then long term Brander could settle into the backline when Jones is phased out, or take Charlie's spot up forward if his injury issues are ongoing.

 

[Ash24]

I think this approach is problematic. We may get lucky and see a suitable KPD or ruck at whatever pick(s) we hold, but we should in no way reach for those types.

I'd rather look for both these types via trade/free agency given the time that goes into developing them, or take them with second round picks at best.

What gaps do we currently have in our list?

1 ~ A KPD as depth to cover for an injured Weiters/Jones
2 ~ Future KPD replacement for Jones when he retires
3 ~ Future KPF/KPD/Ruck (utility) replacement for Levi when he retires
4 ~ Possibly a KPF as depth if a JSOS/Gov don't step it up

Number 1 (OMac?) and 4 must be mature options, ready to play on any given day. Number 2 can be either from the draft or a trade, but must be capable of being an A-grade defender (at Jones' current level). Number 3 must also be a future A-grader. However if C. Curnow recovers fully from all injuries, then some simple good KPP depth will be fine for that.

Overall to be prepared for injuries and future retirements, we're probably missing 2 KPD/KPFs each. Right now it's way too early to be looking at our list needs, when Jones/Levi will retire, how Charlie will recover, and if JSOS/Gov's good form will return. I guess all these questions and scenarios will need to be looked into much later down the year.



man, I love list management

 

[gbatman]

Had some good arguments with people over the last few seasons that it was not important to draft small forwards until the end of the rebuild because they take the shortest time to develop, aren't important until you are good and are easiest to find. SOS copped a lot of criticism because we were focusing on all other positions which was the right thing to do. Low and behold we have arrived at a point where we should now start challenging and our list is full of small forward types of various ages and looks really healthy in that department. We've done it just like Hawthorn and Richmond have done it, brought them in at the end. We've done this really well.

As for key position defenders. In the immediate future we look a little short and that is mostly due to list numbers being cut. I think you will find most teams are short in depth in some areas due to that. I hope list sizes go back to where they were next season.

I think we will be ok in the immediate future for Key position depth unless there are multiple injuries. IMO Casboult is backup for Weitering, he can play the big strong strong marking type. Our CHB, our quicker KPD in Jones is harder to backup IMO. Probably have Marchbank who is slow to come back from injury covering him followed by McGovern who can go back.

I think the biggest issue with out KPD depth is Kemp's injury. Rumour on here was he had grown to Key position size and IMO would have been ideal to replace Jones at CHB. IMO we will see him when he returns developing as the replacement for Jones but we do need to find another key defender in the coming years. I don't think we need to find one to replace Jones, Kemp is probably going to do that but we need one for depth.

Still feel that delisting Macreadie was a bad move however they might know more than we do. Though I see he has signed with Williamstown. I hope we are watching that one.

With the list cuts and some players not getting the opportunity to demonstrate their skills due to Covid I can see the VFL having some really good pickups available this season and he is one of them.

 

[Juddernaut08]

What gaps do we currently have in our list?

1 ~ A KPD as depth to cover for an injured Weiters/Jones
2 ~ Future KPD replacement for Jones when he retires
3 ~ Future KPF/KPD/Ruck (utility) replacement for Levi when he retires
4 ~ Possibly a KPF as depth if a JSOS/Gov don't step it up

Number 1 (OMac?) and 4 must be mature options, ready to play on any given day. Number 2 can be either from the draft or a trade, but must be capable of being an A-grade defender (at Jones' current level). Number 3 must also be a future A-grader. However if C. Curnow recovers fully from all injuries, then some simple good KPP depth will be fine for that.

Overall to be prepared for injuries and future retirements, we're probably missing 2 KPD/KPFs each. Right now it's way too early to be looking at our list needs, when Jones/Levi will retire, how Charlie will recover, and if JSOS/Gov's good form will return. I guess all these questions and scenarios will need to be looked into much later down the year.



man, I love list management

Liam's still got 2-3 years left at his current level IMO.

I'd rather just trade for a Dougal Howard-type on the cheap (3rd rounder). Save the elite picks for other positions.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I still think a wingman is a massive need. Walsh is too good to play there and all the other options seem to be not top end talent or have fairly big holes in their game to play there, mostly running ability. LOB is the one obvious hope but outside of that it’s slim pickings imo

 

[thylacine60]

we've just gone from 40 wings to none...............this place..............

 

[Metalcrusher]

we've just gone from 40 wings to none...............this place..............

I ate them all.

 

[blue healer]

That list is still very questionable though

Eddie - probably his last year, even if serviceable will not be a long term option
Fish - gun, but not sure he's suited as a pure small forward
Gibbons - good mid, below average small forward
Fogarty - heaps of potential, but unproven
Durdin - ditto, heaps of potential, but unproven
Cuningham - has not shown much in the opportunities given
Murphy - love him but no
Honey - raw
Owies - raw
Crocker - fringe

I liked.....Honey - raw

nec minit ...Honey - sweet

and then....Honey - pure

 

[Metalcrusher]

I liked.....Honey - raw

nec minit ...Honey - sweet

and then....Honey - pure

 

[BluesTragic]

That list is still very questionable though

Eddie - probably his last year, even if serviceable will not be a long term option
Fish - gun, but not sure he's suited as a pure small forward
Gibbons - good mid, below average small forward
Fogarty - heaps of potential, but unproven
Durdin - ditto, heaps of potential, but unproven
Cuningham - has not shown much in the opportunities given
Murphy - love him but no
Honey - raw
Owies - raw
Crocker - fringe

When you read this list, we are way off yet.....reality bites hard


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[JustaBattler]

That list is still very questionable though

Eddie - probably his last year, even if serviceable will not be a long term option
Fish - gun, but not sure he's suited as a pure small forward
Gibbons - good mid, below average small forward
Fogarty - heaps of potential, but unproven
Durdin - ditto, heaps of potential, but unproven
Cuningham - has not shown much in the opportunities given
Murphy - love him but no
Honey - raw
Owies - raw
Crocker - fringe

Martin Murphy Fisher and Eddie will be the starting forwards -
a couple of them might rotate through midfield and swap with a midfielder who can play forward : Martin and Murphy will do this for sure
all fo Gibbons/Fogarty/Cuningham and Newnes are capable of playing as a mid with forward rotations.

We are stacked for mid/forward and forward / mid rotations as a list

I'm also happy to see blokes like Honey/Philp/Owies/Durdin in development.

List is in good moving to great shape as far as non tall forward choices go.

IF AFL increases numbers on lists - the missing spots will go to developing talls - back front and even middle - Club will fix this via draft and trade anyway.

I'd relax.

 

[The Bighouse]

Liam's still got 2-3 years left at his current level IMO.

I'd rather just trade for a Dougal Howard-type on the cheap (3rd rounder). Save the elite picks for other positions.

Didn’t Doogie Howser go for a 1st rounder (tagged with Ryder) and a fair amount of coin?

 

[BigBreakfast]

That list is still very questionable though

Eddie - probably his last year, even if serviceable will not be a long term option
Fish - gun, but not sure he's suited as a pure small forward
Gibbons - good mid, below average small forward
Fogarty - heaps of potential, but unproven
Durdin - ditto, heaps of potential, but unproven
Cuningham - has not shown much in the opportunities given
Murphy - love him but no
Honey - raw
Owies - raw
Crocker - fringe

Super pessimistic view, J. Fish and Betts will be fine in the games they play.
Murph has hit the scoreboard plenty and chooses quality options. Does sneaky things like hit a tackle at just the tight time. Clever around goal.
Martin and Williams will spend time forward.
Fog and Durdin will have moments.
And that’s enough for now...