Autopsy Carlton v Essendon Practice Match - We won:- 14.11 (95) to 11.8 (74)!

[FRUMPY]

If McG put up the same performance as Jack did yesterday he would've been slaughtered on here. Jack did maybe 1-2 good things, but was mostly fumbly and non-existent. Nonetheless, I like Jack and hope he puts up an improved performance against the Saints.

Yep, the case of people see what they want to see

 

[Metalcrusher]

He can do that in general play.
I just don't think Doc needs to take every kick in.

Thats where Newman was handy, beautiful kick.

 

[FRUMPY]

Yep, this was fantastic.

All parts of that play were tough to execute - Walsh's contested ball win, Dow's trap and deft handball, Saad taking the ball at top speed, Pitto's well timed shepherd and then the final kick to Crippa's advantage.

Good signs this early in the year.

and cripps kicked the goal - if i was to be critical of anything in that play, i think Dow fumbled the ball first before, and doing this well, going at it again and giving off a lightning handball to Saad. But thats just nit-picking by me. I loved Dow's follow up on a number of occasions, something he wouldnt have done prevopus years (same as cuningham a couple of times)

 

[La Dispute]

and cripps kicked the goal - if i was to be critical of anything in that play, i think Dow fumbled the ball first before, and doing this well, going at it again and giving off a lightning handball to Saad. But thats just nit-picking by me. I loved Dow's follow up on a number of occasions, something he wouldnt have done prevopus years (same as cuningham a couple of times)

Baby steps

Also looked like when Cripps went forward he was exceptionally deep, which was the case on that occasion. Does minimise a heap of risk in missing the goal if Crippa's 10 metres out.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not saying he is best 22 or not but curious who at this point are the better small forward options...don't say cunners,owies, honey, fog, durdin or Kennedy because at this point they're not

Murphy, Fish, Gibbons, Martin are all players that could play this role whilst the Durdin, Honey, Owies etc develop. Whilst Eddie is on the list, he will always be preferred and the opportunities will be limited to expose these younger players.. I hope i am wrong and Eddie comes out and kicks 35 goals and has an All Australian year.. I just dont see it happening though, he looked cooked last year and became a liability in 2nd half of games.

 

[Kramer1]

ridiculous comparison

It's apt goddamit....APT!!!

Judging someone for leaving, when they are given no viable alterative is what the waked might call victim blaming.

Just like remaining in an unhealthy environment should not be mistaken for some sort of commendable loyalty.

 

[FRUMPY]

Baby steps

Also looked like when Cripps went forward he was exceptionally deep, which was the case on that occasion. Does minimise a heap of risk in missing the goal if Crippa's 10 metres out.

I like the idea of cripps out of the square - should do it often as a short rest (or half a qtr if we are going ok in the middle without him) - he could be very dangeroud

 

[Madblue]

You do realise he will play every game if he remains healthy ?

Yes you may be right but I highly doubt it

 

[Macca43]

Watched the replay last night and despite my frustrations about the screen size and the inane chatter from the "commentators" here are my takeaways;

1) I have no idea why people were bagging SPS - I thought he was very good and set us up really well coming out of defence.
2) We have really good rebounding defenders who all offer different methods. This is going to be critical because instead of simply funneling everything through Docherty we can now use multiple options who all need to be defended in different ways.
3) It takes time to get AFL ready - Setterfield was one of our best yesterday IMO and used the ball very well because he was able to cover the ground and not be knackered when he got it, Dow was sensational, strong in the contest and again largely used the ball well because he has got another full pre-season under his belt.
4) Jack Silvagni

1

Jack Silvagni

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

5.3

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.3

1star

M

1.7

2star

T

0.7

1star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

did a great job playing out of position - Jack was a 194cm 89 kg player in a 200cm 100kg position but he was rarely beaten in the air, I am tipping the coaches were very impressed with the amount of times he ensured our small forwards could get involved.
5) I think Fogarty's game may have been underrated. Hard to tell definitively given the lack of commentary and camera angles I got the feeling Fogarty was involved in a lot of our scoring opportunities, when he got the ball good things seemed to happen. Got a fight on his hands to make the best 22 but he didn't hurt his chances.
6) LOB was the best of the players who only got the last quarter. His running ability means he should have stood out coming on so late in the game but I was impressed with how often he was at the contest and involved in the play in such a short period. Hopefully gets a bigger opportunity next week - long shot for round 1 but could well be there be round 22.
7) I think Cuningham will play round 1 - I don't have him in my side but I think the coaches love what he brings and I thought he was a little unlucky yesterday with a number of kicks missing him when he was in space

 

[HBF]

Thats where Newman was handy, beautiful kick.

Agreed.
But Saad's speed make him a real weapon from the goalsquare.
We always have someone like SPS with his sublime kicking skills for further up the ground.

 

[Koutamightafides]

Yep SPS is our most frustrating player that's for sure. Promises so much but gets lazy and careless time and time again which was on show today.

SPS reminds me of a football version of Usman Kwaja he has all the skill in the world but is so layed back it almost makes him look lazy but damn he can kick a ball and hit targets for fun . Didn't mind him yesterday myself .

 

[Macca43]

Agreed.
But Saad's speed make him a real weapon from the goalsquare.
We always have someone like SPS with his sublime kicking skills for further up the ground.

TO me Saad gives us that 80m rapid exit, SPS gives us the controlled short exit that allows us to get back into the corridor, open the game up again and possibly then use Saad. Williamson & Docherty give us a bit of both with Willo being a bit more aggressive. Makes it hard to set up zones if you can throw different exits at them.

 

[FRUMPY]

Watched the replay last night and despite my frustrations about the screen size and the inane chatter from the "commentators" here are my takeaways;

1) I have no idea why people were bagging SPS - I thought he was very good and set us up really well coming out of defence.
2) We have really good rebounding defenders who all offer different methods. This is going to be critical because instead of simply funneling everything through Docherty we can now use multiple options who all need to be defended in different ways.
3) It takes time to get AFL ready - Setterfield was one of our best yesterday IMO and used the ball very well because he was able to cover the ground and not be knackered when he got it, Dow was sensational, strong in the contest and again largely used the ball well because he has got another full pre-season under his belt.
4) Jack Silvagni did a great job playing out of position - Jack was a 194cm 89 kg player in a 200cm 100kg position but he was rarely beaten in the air, I am tipping the coaches were very impressed with the amount of times he ensured our small forwards could get involved.
5) I think Fogarty's game may have been underrated. Hard to tell definitively given the lack of commentary and camera angles I got the feeling Fogarty was involved in a lot of our scoring opportunities, when he got the ball good things seemed to happen. Got a fight on his hands to make the best 22 but he didn't hurt his chances.
6) LOB was the best of the players who only got the last quarter. His running ability means he should have stood out coming on so late in the game but I was impressed with how often he was at the contest and involved in the play in such a short period. Hopefully gets a bigger opportunity next week - long shot for round 1 but could well be there be round 22.
7) I think Cuningham will play round 1 - I don't have him in my side but I think the coaches love what he brings and I thought he was a little unlucky yesterday with a number of kicks missing him when he was in space

So who takes Jack's 200cm, 100kg spot in the forward line when we are all fit and firing? Bit overkill there im afraid - dont get me wrong, he isnt a 2nd tall and played out of posting because of injuries but he isnt that far off a key forward size (Jack 191cm or 194cm depends where you look, charlie 192cm) - maybe 3 or 4 cmss shorter than ideal size. Edit: Levi fits that bill......

Agree on cuningham, quite a few times was in the clear and ball missed him. Does need to clean up his disposal when streaming forward, did a couple of mongrel kicks that missed the target by plenty (a common trait of his at present)

 

[FRUMPY]

SPS reminds me of a football version of Usman Kwaja he has all the skill in the world but is so layed back it almost makes him look lazy but damn he can kick a ball and hit targets for fun . Didn't mind him yesterday myself .

That left foot kick on an angle over 20m to a lead up target was - i would like him having the ball forward of centre a bit more

 

[Aphrodite]

When does that new fangled comp start up Aph? Also ... any idea if the games will be telecasted in some way? Also, how is the comp being funded since there will be shed loads more travel than the old local league?

Ta fanks

Call the Club ffs.

 

[Arr0w]

Yes you may be right but I highly doubt it

Not shocked, your agenda regarding SPS clouds a view on selection and probably always will

I guess the best piece of evidence is the number of games he has played since drafted

 

[Koutamightafides]

Extremely poor reason to offer a 34yo, who kicked a total of 13 goals from 15 games last year a new contract.... Its not like Eddie was someone like Simpson or Murphy who was a loyal servant of the club, he left..

Not my decision it's just how it is . Betts is one of the few players in the league that will be sent off in front of a crowd to appreciate what a legend of the game he has been . I still think part of the deal to get him back was that it would be for two years but then covid hit and ****ed everything up . I'd rather have him training with our up and comers like Durdin and Fisher , owies and Honey than not have him there at all . He will be a mentor for them and they can certainly use his knowledge he has learner over the years but fast track them quicker than if they were just getting taught from our normal development coaches which is one area we have previously struggled . Just my opinion anyway .

 

[Macca43]

So who takes Jack's 200cm, 100kg spot in the forward line when we are all fit and firing? Bit overkill there im afraid - dont get me wrong, he isnt a 2nd tall and played out of posting because of injuries but he isnt that far off a key forward size (Jack 191cm or 194cm depends where you look, charlie 192cm) - maybe 3 or 4 cmss shorter than ideal size. Edit: Levi fits that bill......

Agree on cuningham, quite a few times was in the clear and ball missed him. Does need to clean up his disposal when streaming forward, did a couple of mongrel kicks that missed the target by plenty (a common trait of his at present)

As you suggest Levi, Possibly TDK if we go with 2 rucks (but then I don't think we should also play Levi), Charlie is only listed at 192cm but is 96kg and has (had?) a much better leap.

I would still have JSOS in the side but with the extra tall he could play that long leading, hit up the wings type that suits him more.

 

[Koutamightafides]

When does that new fangled comp start up Aph? Also ... any idea if the games will be telecasted in some way? Also, how is the comp being funded since there will be shed loads more travel than the old local league?

Ta fanks

VFL games start a month after the AFL so it looks like scratch matches for the nonbest 22 for a month , good thing is apparently they will play some VFL games as curtain raisers for AFL games just hope we get to see a few .

 

[Koutamightafides]

He can do that in general play.
I just don't think Doc needs to take every kick in.

Be good to get someone like LOB or Stocker to take kick ins and just absolutely launch it 65 out to the wing and have Saad there waiting for the drop of the ball run through the middle and hit up Harry, Gov or Charlie but that's be basically a fiction novel .

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

So who takes Jack's 200cm, 100kg spot in the forward line when we are all fit and firing? Bit overkill there im afraid - dont get me wrong, he isnt a 2nd tall and played out of posting because of injuries but he isnt that far off a key forward size (Jack 191cm or 194cm depends where you look, charlie 192cm) - maybe 3 or 4 cmss shorter than ideal size. Edit: Levi fits that bill......

Agree on cuningham, quite a few times was in the clear and ball missed him. Does need to clean up his disposal when streaming forward, did a couple of mongrel kicks that missed the target by plenty (a common trait of his at present)

FWIW I think the ideal set up for our forward 6 is.

Harry, & Levi Playing deep, Levi rotating through the ruck to give TDK a rest.
Charlie, Traditional CHF but working up the ground.
Martin & Murphy as the small forwards, rotating mids, with Fisher coming off the bench to add spark..
which leaves one of JSOS, McGovern or Betts taking the 6th spot, Jacks versatility to play tall or small gives him the nod in my book.

 

[The Dominator7]

Only caught snippets of the live game, so wanted to watch the replay in full. While it is always good to beat the scum, score lines mean nothing in these games to me.

JSOS - Despite being a KPP height, his best position will only ever be a 3rd or 4th tall forward. Love that he fights hard for front position but his best go is working up higher up the ground if he is going to play as our 2nd KPF while we have injuries, or maybe rotating more as that taller mid when he matched up against Fyfe

Dow - What a different a sound body makes. What i liked most was he seemed more relaxed with his kicking like his junior years, but most impressive was using his first outlet release and lowering his eyes more. On the back of that hitout, comes into my rolling round 1 side

Murphy - Finally they have decided to play him as a permanent HHF. If he remains there, it will extend his career. Comes into my rolling round 1 side

LOB - Not enough game time to change my opinion either way, hope he gets a better run against the Saints

SPS - The negativity around this kid is staggering. Yes, he should commit more when the ball is in dispute, but with ball in hand he is dangerous off both sides. Remains a lock for the season

Williams - Thought he was very good early when the ball was in dispute, will be dangerous resting forward. Want to see more of a burst when he gathers rather than just throwing it on the boot

Fogarty - Nothing poor, but didn't seem a danger and or impact the game, comes out of my rolling round 1 side

Cripps - Look like a bull at times, as well as cautious at times.

Harry - Showed some usual bad habits at times, not working hard enough for that front position. Being the only true KPF would have been a tough gig. Looks fitter, will have his best year if he has support

Stocker - See LOB

Jones - I think he will have a better year again. Will have brain fades, but rarely beaten

Doc - Plus or minus, this is the player he will be given the ACL's. Think he will improve a little on the back of last year

Walsh - Did nothing wrong or outstanding. Prefer him on a wing with a smaller percentage at the coal face at this stage, but understand the club want to fast track him as a permanent stoppage on baller

Plowman - Perfect defender on a 3rd tall or bull mid resting forward. Got found out when playing on KPF's, its not his go

Martin - Not enough time around the pill, but that will change. Love his attack on a player with the pill.

Weitering - In for a big year, back to back on the cards

Fisher - Slippery, perhaps tried to shimmy too many times but will be a handful forward. Prefer him over Betts at this stage

Pitto - His type of matchup, against another banger. Thing I liked is he pushed forward and was rewarded with a couple of snags. Still prefer a fit TDK

Cuners - More of the same, want to see him more around the pill

Willo - Really cant remember being beaten. Seems stronger, but leaner, watch this space

Newnes - More of the same from last year

Ed - Ed

Gibbons - See LOB & Stocker

Saad - Nothing surprising here. We know what we are getting and his run out of the back half gives us another dimension

Setters - See Walsh. Prefer he and Walsh swap positions

Moore - No. DMAC - Only as a backup KPD

Gamestyle - Only a slight adjustment, not enough to suggest that we have added enough layers. Early on we still missed targets going forward and or bombing it long too often as well as over committing when going forward . When we did flick it around by hand or foot we looked dangerous. Felt the Bombers looked more consistent transitioning the ball forward, but they just don't have the list to sustain that movement

Round 1 side before today

Plowman Weitering Newman
Doc Jones Saad

Walsh Cripps Newnes
TDK Williams Setterfield

Martin Levi SPS
Fisher McKay, Fogarty

Gibbons Ed Willo Jack


Ins Murphy, Dow, Pitto

Outs Newman, Fogarty, TDK

Willo or SPS to slide into Newman's spot

Dow comes in for Fogarty

Pitto for TDK

Jack fighting with Gov and Kennedy

Ripping post Azza, like it a lot

 

[Tjblues]

Watched the replay last night and despite my frustrations about the screen size and the inane chatter from the "commentators" here are my takeaways;

1) I have no idea why people were bagging SPS - I thought he was very good and set us up really well coming out of defence.
2) We have really good rebounding defenders who all offer different methods. This is going to be critical because instead of simply funneling everything through Docherty we can now use multiple options who all need to be defended in different ways.
3) It takes time to get AFL ready - Setterfield was one of our best yesterday IMO and used the ball very well because he was able to cover the ground and not be knackered when he got it, Dow was sensational, strong in the contest and again largely used the ball well because he has got another full pre-season under his belt.
4) Jack Silvagni did a great job playing out of position - Jack was a 194cm 89 kg player in a 200cm 100kg position but he was rarely beaten in the air, I am tipping the coaches were very impressed with the amount of times he ensured our small forwards could get involved.
5) I think Fogarty's game may have been underrated. Hard to tell definitively given the lack of commentary and camera angles I got the feeling Fogarty was involved in a lot of our scoring opportunities, when he got the ball good things seemed to happen. Got a fight on his hands to make the best 22 but he didn't hurt his chances.
6) LOB was the best of the players who only got the last quarter. His running ability means he should have stood out coming on so late in the game but I was impressed with how often he was at the contest and involved in the play in such a short period. Hopefully gets a bigger opportunity next week - long shot for round 1 but could well be there be round 22.
7) I think Cuningham will play round 1 - I don't have him in my side but I think the coaches love what he brings and I thought he was a little unlucky yesterday with a number of kicks missing him when he was in space

Replying to this one as it raises some interesting points and also happens to be the easiest one for me to go back and find worth discussing...

1. Totally agree re. SPS. I think he struggled with positioning in the first but was a really strong contributor after that. He was involved in the chain nearly every time we looked good transitioning from defence to attack.

2. Yep, saad, Newman, willo, doc, sps. All can launch an attack and provide the opposition with headaches.

3. Setters is fast becoming one of our most consistent and reliable contributors. Gets to good spots and is backing his skills to move the ball quickly and confidently. Hope to see more of the same from Dow but not getting carried away just yet.

4. Disagree here. I saw a poster wonder whether we would be having the same opinion should McGovern have played the way SOS did yesterday and I agree. He was not outmarked. But he didn’t contribute in any kind of meaningful way. Completely disappeared for patches and didn’t take any marks himself or hit the scoreboard. Playing that close to goal we need more out of that player. I understand that it’s not his normal role but his lack of a real point of difference was on display. I like Jack but he’s one I see falling behind if others continue to grow and develop.

5. Back in fierce agreement here. Nothing flashy but Fog made intelligent decisions every time he was involved. Where Cuners provides inconsistent flashes of brilliance, Fog provides reliability and consistency of positioning and performance.

6. I think all 3 deserve credit for getting themselves involved in such a short stint. I would argue that Gibbo was the most impactful with a couple of clearances and involvements in scoring chains but don’t think any of them did much wrong and would like to see more next week.

7. Cuners is a strange one for me. We know he is capable of being a strong contributor at AFL level but he remains hard to read and we don’t know what performance we’ll get from him week on week. Murph moving to HF (he was terrific yesterday) and Fog/Durdin arriving mean that there’s only a few spots available in his position. I’m not saying he shouldn’t be in the team but his name is on the team sheet in pencil not pen for me right now and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the outer at some point this year.

Overall a good hitout. Saw enough to suggest we should be a fun watch this year. Looking forward to seeing how seriously we treat the Saints game next week

 

[BlueBlood15]

Solid first hitout for us. Thought there was a bit to takeaway from the match:
- We rolled 6-8 guys through the middle and I hope this continues throughout the year. Allowed Dow to have a big game. Also allowed us to remain fresh and dynamic in there. We weren’t predictable in the middle as we often have been in the past.
- Thought Saad and Williams were strong on debut.
- I liked the group of small and mid sized forwards we’ve put together. Fisher, Murph, Martin, Cunners and Newnes all had their moments up forward.
- I’m very glad we recruited Pitto as we’d be in a lot of trouble without him. Thought he was very good yesterday and he’ll need to keep that up at least until TDK returns to fight for the number one ruck spot.
- We mossed a genuine second tall forward like Cas or Charlie yesterday. JSOS has a crack at the role but he’s more suited to the third tall role. Hopefully get Cas back next week to straighten us up a bit.
- Dow’s performance was very pleasing. Shaping up for round 1. Fingers crossed he continues on with it

 

[FRUMPY]

As you suggest Levi, Possibly TDK if we go with 2 rucks (but then I don't think we should also play Levi), Charlie is only listed at 192cm but is 96kg and has (had?) a much better leap.

I would still have JSOS in the side but with the extra tall he could play that long leading, hit up the wings type that suits him more.

Yeah he is a 3rd tall type, the role Gov plays and i reckon Gov gets first crack at it.