Autopsy St.Kilda v North Melbourne - Practice Game

[Snake_Baker]

Obviously we are all hoping for top 4 now. If everything goes right and sides above us get the wobbles we could get there and it doesn't even feel like bluster. Our fans haven't had much to swing our dicks about in the last decade, we're all ready to become obnoxious, we are just getting some early practice in.

It's definitely not out of the equation.

There's still a couple of things that have to click for StKilda.

 

[gringo2011]

It's definitely not out of the equation.

There's still a couple of things that have to click for StKilda.

It's looking positive for the first time in a long time. Rattan knows how to coach the best out of what he's got. We used to beat up on the weaker teams and lose to anyone good under Richo, last season we held our own against the top teams apart from Geelong and Collingwood and lost a couple of matches where we looked like we underestimated teams like the Roos and Freo, both matches we were well in front before stopping for no apparent reason. It was his first year as the full time senior coach. He seems to have targeted mature depth to have cover for most spots on the field and a good percentage of our best talent is young and just coming to an age that should see them step up.

I don't want to put the mozz on us but it's the first time since Lyon was coaching that there seems like reason to have realistic hope of at least winning a final and that's a good start. Brisbane and Port had a huge hand up last year with a bulk of games at home. We only need to have a level playing field and we could jump one. I think a few others like WCE, Melbourne and Collingwood are probably in a similar zone but we at least have some reason to believe.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Let's be frank, StKilda HAS undertaken a long & arduous rebuild since 2012, so it would be a failure on their behalf if they have not arrived at this point now.

North are currently about 2-3 years behind StKilda & I actually think that, King aside, North's youth is better.

I don't think this current StKilda side is as strong as the 2010 sides, but Richmond/Bulldogs have shown that you do not need a great list to win flags in this era.

 

[Palantine]

I think Ben Long

22

Ben Long

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

has more X-Factor than Jimmy, Longy is likely to make a match saving tackle or momentum turning mark etc. Webster is probably more reliable (if he can stay on the park).

Neither of them is really suited to the Paton role (lockdown) IMO but hopefully one of them can do it makeshift.

Is Webster quick enough for the likes of Charlie Cameron

23

Charlie Cameron

Age

29

Ht

180cm

Wt

76kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.7

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.6

2star

K

7.9

3star

HB

1.7

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.2

4star

etc?

I remember Jimmy doing a pretty good job on Betts a few years back so I reckon he’s got the lockdown in him.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Palantine]

All smalls lead to goal...shut down one, another is off the chain. Thought Lonie was very good. He seems settled and more considered when sending the ball in. I think it helps when he has options everywhere.

View attachment 1065715

Battle’s sleeve has crept up on me.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Barrels]

Per Jay Clark in the Hun.

How?!!

 

[gringo2011]

Let's be frank, StKilda HAS undertaken a long & arduous rebuild since 2012, so it would be a failure on their behalf if they have not arrived at this point now.

North are currently about 2-3 years behind StKilda & I actually think that, King aside, North's youth is better.

I don't think this current StKilda side is as strong as the 2010 sides, but Richmond/Bulldogs have shown that you do not need a great list to win flags in this era.

It's hard with youth, you definitely shouldn't take 10 years like we did. We pretty much did it a few times before getting it right. We started during the expansion teams concessions and so were picking later in the draft and picking badly at that. I think our youth is very good. Battle, Hunter Clark, Coffield, Paton, Bytel all look very good and then a bunch around their mid 20 ready to step up like Gresham, Wilke, Steele, Long and Marshall. We have a good bunch of mid career guys out of other clubs as well. Howard, Jones, Butler etc.

North have some really good kids, Simpkin is a gun and guys like Zurhar, LDU, Thomas and Taylor and looking like they should be guns. The pieces are there to build around and hopefully everything goes well for you from here.

King is probably getting more hype than any of our others but really probably 3 years off being what he should be. Coffield is probably our best performed kid apart from Paton who's injured. Coffield is probably the most likely to step up to another level this year, he started last season with fans wanting him dropped to end the season 5th in total marks and 4th for marks per game in the AFL. 13th for intercepts and that was playing as a rangy HBF. If he'd started like he finished he'd have been in the AA conversation.

A lot of our youth is un-hyped so far but they look like a generation of quality players with high ceilings. Hunter Clark has Pendlebury vibes. Both should play their 50th game in 2021 and after that you can only dream about their progression as they settle in.

 

[Snake_Baker]

You have brought in a few blokes recently, haven't you?

A kid like King is going to need a seriously revised contract also.

 

[gringo2011]

You have brought in a fee blokes recently, haven't you?

A kid like King is going to need a seriously revised contract also.

We are readjusting contracts that are a legacy from a few years ago. Guys like Dunstan and Webster who don't play any more are on big contracts so are filling up our cap. Roberton signed for about $600,000 a year and had his heart issue ever since. We had Carlisle take a cut and would expect a few guys like Billings and Ross to take a haircut on their next contracts, under Richardson a lot of average players were on contracts that weren't unlike some stars from other sides. It's not quite how it looks from the outside, those contracts should move over to some of the more deserving players though and tie it all back up.

 

[Snake_Baker]

It's hard with youth, you definitely shouldn't take 10 years like we did.

It's been 8 years (post 2012 to 2020) and I reckon that's not far off the time required for a root & branch rebuild, and I commend StKilda for doing it, as Hawthorn have shown the wrong way to go about it.

North have some really good kids, Simpkin is a gun and guys like Zurhar, LDU, Thomas and Taylor and looking like they should be guns. The pieces are there to build around and hopefully everything goes well for you from here.

It's a very good group that is forming. Powell & Phillips will also be very good. North are a ruckman & another KPF off completing the reset.

Davies-Uniake will arrive this season and will be the standout of that lot. He could be a top 5 AFL player.

I consider him to be the best kid that has walked through the doors at Arden Street since Jesse Smith.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Goldstein, Cunnington, Davies-Uniake, Anderson, Polec & Dumont.

That's 6 of the starting 7 midfield that were missing,

The Saints were good, but have a little perspective Plugger.

Marshall, Hannebery, Jones, Gresham. Wouldn't have mattered mate sorry.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Marshall, Hannebery, Jones, Gresham. Wouldn't have mattered mate sorry.

Okay, then I should view anything less than a 100 point loss to StKilda in the H&A season as a bad outing for the saints.

If North get within 40 points then you should probably sack the coach.

 

[gringo2011]

It's been 8 years (post 2012 to 2020) and I reckon that's not far off the time required for a root & branch rebuild, and I commend StKilda for doing it as Hawthorn have shown the wrong way to go about it.



It's a very good group that is forming. Powell & Phillips will also be very good. North are a ruckman & another KPF off completing the reset.

Davies-Uniake will arrive this season and will be the standout of that lot. He could be a top 5 AFL player.

I consider him to be the best kid that has walked through the doors at Arden Street since Jesse Smith.

LDU was coming towards the end of last year. Don't jinx him with Jesse comparisons. He was a sad case, we were all willing him to get right, he really could have been anything. I'll keep an eye on Phillips and Powell, Phillips was very highly rated at the draft but we didn't get to see much of what the kids could do last year. Hope he goes well. The mids are definitely filling up. We have a soft spot for Curtis Taylor being Warnie's nephew, he's pretty good to watch in his own right.

 

[Snake_Baker]

LDU was coming towards the end of last year.

Trust me, he's special.

Don't jinx him with Jesse comparisons. He was a sad case, we were all willing him to get right, he really could have been anything.

An absolute tragedy. All clubs have a similiar story.

I'll keep an eye on Phillips and Powell, Phillips was very highly rated at the draft but we didn't get to see much of what the kids could do last year. Hope he goes well. The mids are definitely filling up. We have a soft spot for Curtis Taylor being Warnie's nephew, he's pretty good to watch in his own right.

I had a chat with Mick McGuane (Curtis's pre-AFL coach) and he is bullish about him if he can get the required fitness for AFL level.

 

[Fehring]

I don't know, 4 years ago you could take Stuv and a couple of others out and Hawks could miss Buddy, Mitchell and several other big names and we'd get a pretty similar result. We are an experienced side now with hardly any kids. North are at a different point in the cycle. The Saints played a good game and did everything right but for the relative sides it was probably a fair result.

This is spot on. The gap between the best five players and the five who are on the cusp of selection is far smaller at clubs with really good depth. At bottom clubs it's usually a chasm.

So North will improve more than us when all those players are added back in. We remember what that was like. Even last year we didn't have as much depth as we have now.

 

[Yawkey way]

Let's be frank, StKilda HAS undertaken a long & arduous rebuild since 2012, so it would be a failure on their behalf if they have not arrived at this point now.

North are currently about 2-3 years behind StKilda & I actually think that, King aside, North's youth is better.

I don't think this current StKilda side is as strong as the 2010 sides, but Richmond/Bulldogs have shown that you do not need a great list to win flags in this era.

Can’t agree with that I’ll take our youth over north’s everyday of the week.

Having said that I like some of the young guys you have and don’t believe north will be easy beats this year when you field your best 22. I think your biggest problem moving forward will be replacing Goldstein, Tarrant, Ziebell and Cunnington. I really like them and they’ve been great players, as st Kilda found out you don’t just click your fingers and replace the likes of Riewoldt, Dan Santo, Goddard, Montagna etc.

Good luck this season, if things break your way 8 wins is realistic imo.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Can’t agree with that I’ll take our youth over north’s everyday of the week.

Fair enough.

Having said that I like some of the young guys you have and don’t believe north will be easy beats this year when you field your best 22. I think your biggest problem moving forward will be replacing Goldstein, Tarrant, Ziebell and Cunnington.

1) They all still have at least a couple of years to play.

Goldstein: HUGE issue for the club. Tristan Xerri is being groomed and looks a solid prospect, but he's different to Goldstein and I doubt he'll reach that class as a player.

Tarrant: You didn't get a look at Ben McKay last year?

Turf toe, pneumonia, quadriceps strain: The 'other' McKay's long road

Developing defender Ben McKay looms as a key piece in North Melbourne's future

www.afl.com.au

Ziebell: We have plenty of talented medium sized impact forwards & utilities (Zurhaar, Taylor, Thomas)

Cunnington: Simpkin, Davies-Uniake, Scott, Phillips & Powell. Kyron Hayden had 7 clearances against your side on Thursday. Jed Anderson just had his best season and just turned 27 years old 3 weeks ago. Collectively, this is going to be the best midfield group that North have had since the late 90's/early 2000's.

I really like them and they’ve been great players, as st Kilda found out you don’t just click your fingers and replace the likes of Riewoldt, Dan Santo, Goddard, Montagna etc.

Indeed. Sometimes it can take 30-40 years to obtain that type of talent again.

Good luck this season, if things break your way 8 wins is realistic imo.

Cheers, best of luck to the Sainters also.

 

[jwikked]

View attachment 1066187

Per Jay Clark in the Hun.

How?!!

It’s probably true for 2021. Fortunately any players we bring in at the end of the year won’t be affected by it.
look at the guys (likely) retiring (or signing reduced contracts) at the end of the year and there’s probably $2 million that gets freed up.

 

[flyingmagic]

The problem with seeking balance in the discussion is that it tends to be misconstrued by the parochial in a defensive manner, which is not its intention.

AFL discussion boards involve a significant representation of inexperienced parochial contributors who are incapable of understanding the nuances of the sport, and who get ultra defensive the moment any significant factors are presented.

This practice match didn't reveal anything definitive to me. There was just too much data left out of the match.

How do I think the sides will go in 2021?

I reckon StKilda should be aiming for 5th/6th all going well, and they could go deep in to the finals. They are probably not top tier at the moment, but they are next tier.

North's best could be 8 wins and I reckon we will have had a bad season if we can't snag 5 wins, but we're far from the basket case that the misleading 2020 season would have some believe. I suspect we will emerge as the team we are going to become this year. At some point the kids will all click and the football myopics will be able to see.

Injuries, of course, will play a massive role in any outcomes.

Feeling a bit defensive?

Feeling a bit one-eyed?

Not sure I will take a diehard north supporter as an accurate gauge of whether you are actually any good. Just because you say you aren't a basket case, doesn't mean we should all believe you.

That's the St Kilda life under Richo. Trying to delude ourselves into thinking that we are actually decent. But I guess that the role of a fan - you have to believe and think the best. You always have to hope.

Anyway, would prefer to keep talking about the saints than delve into exactly how good or bad the north you are - or whether your youth are better than ours (like we would agree anyway).

Hope your seasons goes as well as you hope it will.

 

[Yawkey way]

Fair enough.



1) They all still have at least a couple of years to play.

Goldstein: HUGE issue for the club. Tristan Xerri is being groomed and looks a solid prospect, but he's different to Goldstein and I doubt he'll reach that class as a player.

Tarrant: You didn't get a look at Ben McKay last year?


View attachment 1066211
View attachment 1066214

Turf toe, pneumonia, quadriceps strain: The 'other' McKay's long road

Developing defender Ben McKay looms as a key piece in North Melbourne's future

www.afl.com.au

Ziebell: We have plenty of talented medium sized impact forwards & utilities (Zurhaar, Taylor, Thomas)

Cunnington: Simpkin, Davies-Uniake, Scott, Phillips & Powell. Kyron Hayden had 7 clearances against your side on Thursday. Jed Anderson just had his best season and just turned 27 years old 3 weeks ago. Collectively, this is going to be the best midfield group that North have had since the late 90's/early 2000's.



Indeed. Sometimes it can take 30-40 years to obtain that type of talent again.



Cheers, best of luck to the Sainters also.

I‘m a huge wrap for McKay, his brother is a ripper as well.

Ziebell and Cunnington have killed us and others too many times to believe the’re just good VG players and next up will cover them.

We made that mistake and replacing champions with good players still left us in a hole. Both have a couple of years left but have ageing warriors bodies. Ziebell may have found a new role in defence, Cunnington is a bit more problematic with his back, reduced interchange won’t help the older players either.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's entirely possible that North's yoof is indeed better than ours (say those born in 1998 and later, so 23yo this year and younger):

Simpkin, LDU, Thomas, Phillips, Larkey, Powell, Zurhaar, Stephenson, Taylor, Scott, etc

v

King, Clark, Coffield, Higgins, Battle, Paton, Bytel, Highmore, etc

(A lot of that will come down to just us the how good King ends up.)

but the big difference between the two sides comes in that 24yo-this-year to 26yo bracket.

In that bracket they have of note:

L-Mac, Dumont, McKay

While we have:

Steele, Gresham, Marshall, Billings, Jones, Butler, Howard, Wilkie, Sinclair, Long, Lonie

 

[Snake_Baker]

but the big difference between the two sides comes in that 24yo this year to 26yo bracket.

Good post and you have definitely identified our Achilles heel.

Unfortunately our rise from battling to competitive to contender will likely be delayed because of this.

The trading of Corr helped and I suspect we will continue to focus on trades in this area.

 

[sammm]

Snake is a good poster, we were beating up on a young inexperienced side and while their outs wouldn't have been likely to get them a win, they would have been more competitive. They did beat us round one last year with their better players in. They are in rebuild mode while we are honing our side for a charge at finals. It's a bit like getting excited about how tough you are after stealing a prep kids pocket money. Having Goldy and Cunners would have at least been like having to take the kid's money with his dad watching.

i think we will know a lo\ittle more against carlton

 

[gringo2011]

Can’t agree with that I’ll take our youth over north’s everyday of the week.

Having said that I like some of the young guys you have and don’t believe north will be easy beats this year when you field your best 22. I think your biggest problem moving forward will be replacing Goldstein, Tarrant, Ziebell and Cunnington. I really like them and they’ve been great players, as st Kilda found out you don’t just click your fingers and replace the likes of Riewoldt, Dan Santo, Goddard, Montagna etc.

Good luck this season, if things break your way 8 wins is realistic imo.

Our true youth pile is pretty light on in comparison. For true young inexperienced talent I would say Battle, Clark, Coffield, Paton, Bytel, Byrnes, Clavarino, Leo Connelly and King are the proper youth. In comparison to sides like North they have a bigger pile to chose from and a few look really good already. We have targeted mature depth rather than rolling the dice on speculative kids.

Simpkin and Larkey look like they are going to be good and in Simpkin he's already looking top shelf. LDU is looking like he's as promising as any of our kids, Taryn Thomas hit the ground running like a 100 game player and has a huge scope for improvement, Curtis Taylor got a rising star nomination last year, Phillips is considered a top prospect and potential number one pick and took Eddie Ford and Lazzaro last year as well.

They did trade out a future first for pick 8 that could have nabbed Serong though so have made some mistakes and Pittard and Polec probably didn't have the desired effect and set things back a bit. You always rate your own more than others kids because you see their potential that others outside don't.

 

[Snake_Baker]

They did trade out a future first for pick 8 that could have nabbed Serong though so have made some mistakes and Pittard and Polec probably didn't have the desired effect and set things back a bit. You always rate your own more than others kids because you see their potential that others outside don't.

North would have lost that pick on the Thomas draft anyway (North had pick 11).



Jackson Hately was taken with our pick at 14 after Port traded it on to GWS.

The Polec trade was a good trade. We needed a wingman and the trade cost us basically nothing.

We then got back in to the draft and snagged Taylor (46) and Scott (49).

It looks like panning out to be a good draft for North considering the hand we had.