Autopsy Carlton v Essendon Practice Match - We won:- 14.11 (95) to 11.8 (74)!

[jj1978]

Gibbons is interesting.

Personally I don't rate him as much as others but he has a bit of a cult following and some supporters seem to really appreciate what he brings to the team. So maybe I need a Michael Gibbons 101 course to educate and inspire me.

I find him very inconsistent and can't work out where he fits in the midfield as his small forward career in navy blue has been disappointing. I don't see much X factor or see a specific trait that makes me think only Michael Gibbons can do that and he should be played every week.

He hardly played against Ess so I suspect he has dropped down the depth chart a bit since last year. The inconsistency is my major issue with him. Consistency as a team has been our biggest problem quarter to quarter, game to game, all of last year (happened again yesterday but the win kind of sugar coats it) and I can't understand why players who are consistently inconsistent are considered. Say that as fast as you can 100 times!

Last year, I assumed that Gibbons was doing something worthy that I can't see and that the coaches love. Can someone who rates our #40 give me a quick rundown on why he should be played? Maybe I will come around.

Agree, with Williams on board now, Walsh not looking like dropping down (very rare a kid doesn't have 2nd year blues after starring 1st year, Walsh blitzed his 2nd year) and Dow after a good pre-season and indicating he's deserved to at least be in the 22 come season opener, just can't see Gibbons breaking in for a while other than injury depth. Particularly if Stocker, LOB start to climb up the ranks, Fish we saw what he can do as a newly minted small forward and with Saad also may allow SPS and Doc some stints in the mid if need be too.

We've recruited to basically make Gibbons depth.

 

[DirkDiggler]

I would prefer Stocker as a bull mid

So do I, but with questions on his fitness would like him to start as soon as possible near the goals with rotation in the midfield. Think he will surprise a few supporters at how easily he will adapt to senior footy.

 

[skadoosh]

St Kilda will be a much harder proposition and we will see how much our defensive efforts have improved given there speed of ball movement, I hope we keep the midfield rotations high, also will be a good opportunity to see if we have improved our change of gears and whether we can slow the play down if they get a run on, should be a perfect tune up for Rd1.

2 biggest things I'd like to see an improvement on:
1. Method of entry into our F50. Still too many long bombs to a pack. Needs to be levelled out with kicks out to a leading player.
2. Ability to stop opposition run and carry from HB into their forward line. Smarter positioning required here to stop easy handball links leading to a F50 entry.

 

[CJMB]

So do I, but with questions on his fitness would like him to start as soon as possible near the goals with rotation in the midfield. Think he will surprise a few supporters at how easily he will adapt to senior footy.

It'll be good this year having a fair dinkum reserves comp with our own team as he should be able to be named on ball and really work on his game. Will be a good opportunity to monitor his fitness and how he handles the workload of being one of the big dogs in the middle, not just a pinch hitter with low TOG who swings between forward and back flanks.

Similar story for a guy like O'Brien, who was trying to play inside or general defender in the mickey mouse 12v12 games with sides sometimes featuring players from multiple teams. Not to mention that they supposedly tried to bulk him up to add to his contested work which apparently hurt his running ability and he ended up playing carrying a hip (or something like that) injur for a good part of the year.

The reserves comp doesn't start until mid-April, about 5 weeks into the AFL fixture. So while that's not ideal for younger kids attempting to break into the senior side, there probably won't be too many changes early aside from players exiting or joining the side around injuries.

Casboult, McGovern, probably Betts & maybe DeKoning rejoining the team in that period and there will be a healthy list of 'just missed out' players that could include Gibbons, Newnes, Dow, Stocker, Silvagni, Cuningham, Fogarty, or even Gov. A few more weeks and we might be adding Marchbank, Newman, Philp, Durdin, Cottrell, O'Brien, Kennedy, Durdin, Carroll into the mix of genuinely competing for spots.

 

[woof39]

Here ya go.....a 26 minute highlight reel of Gibbo just from last year.....you can draw your own conclusions, but he could easily transition into our engine room.

Thanks for finding this clip, was well worth watching.

Definitely some nice highlights in there. His finishing ability was better than I remember and some nice weaving and clever handballs in there plus I agree, he is a midfielder before anything else.

To play devils advocate to that highlights package:

- More than half of the highlights were stock standard possessions that every AFL player does and not really 'highlights' just football that you expect. Whoever put this together has low expectations on what a true highlight is or that those stock standard touches are indeed the 'best of' because that's all we have.

- Everyone's best of reel is going to look good when packaged like that, especially when showing basic possessions. I remember watching Finbar Odwyer's package and thinking.. gee what a great pick up (I'm just joking, I never thought that but you know what I mean).

- This clip doesn't show the gaps in time between his impact in a game on a consistent basis (which is my issue with him).

Big year for him ahead. He needs to show he can play well every week (and qtr) and not contribute to our inconsistency but this clip does show he is capable.

Cheers

 

[RPCB]

DirkDiggler calling Stocker, Stroker. Gotta be a joke in there somewhere.

You see what you want to see. I didn’t read Dirk as Dirk at first.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Thanks for finding this clip, was well worth watching.

Definitely some nice highlights in there. His finishing ability was better than I remember and some nice weaving and clever handballs in there plus I agree, he is a midfielder before anything else.

To play devils advocate to that highlights package:

- More than half of the highlights were stock standard possessions that every AFL player does and not really 'highlights' just football that you expect. Whoever put this together has low expectations on what a true highlight is or that those stock standard touches are indeed the 'best of' because that's all we have.

- Everyone's best of reel is going to look good when packaged like that, especially when showing basic possessions. I remember watching Finbar Odwyer's package and thinking.. gee what a great pick up (I'm just joking, I never thought that but you know what I mean).

- This clip doesn't show the gaps in time between his impact in a game on a consistent basis (which is my issue with him).

Big year for him ahead. He needs to show he can play well every week (and qtr) and not contribute to our inconsistency but this clip does show he is capable.

Cheers

I think you're setting an unrealistically high bar for someone who would probably be our 8th choice mid at best.

Cripps, Walsh, Williams, Curnow, Setterfield, Martin, Newnes - then maybe Gibbons.

That's assuming that Dow doesn't explode this year, Stocker doesn't lift, Cunners doesn't push into the middle and perform...

Run through the competition and see what kind of names occupy that spot on other lists. I think you'll find most of them are solid but unspectacular role players. Like Gibbons.

And I'm not sure why an exciting highlight reel would make a difference, given (as you said) they're just highlights and not a complete picture. Gibbons doesn't take huge speccys or bullock his way through a pack to then hit a 55m goal on the run. But he does the stock standard stuff consistently, which is actually more than can be said for many others.

 

[Matty411]

Gibbons will always be that high-quality 20-22nd player in the team. Third year at the level, very unheralded.

Jump on

 

[Arr0w]

So do I, but with questions on his fitness would like him to start as soon as possible near the goals with rotation in the midfield. Think he will surprise a few supporters at how easily he will adapt to senior footy.

No surprise to me, think will play a fair bit of footy

 

[Skull Face]

Can't find the updated Laws of the Game document, but it's been reported pretty consistently as:

• Player standing the mark. The defending player will be permitted no lateral movement on the mark. If the defending player moves off the mark in any direction prior to “play on” being called, a 50-metre penalty will apply. The defensive team is unable to substitute the player on the mark.

And then they've apparently added a 5m protected zone around the player on the mark, so they can't be shepherded nor can other teammates stand the mark with them.

The one the other day looked atrocious, player on the mark moved about 2ft away, stretching his calves while the player taking the kick for goal was measuring his run up. Whistle, 50m right to the goalsquare.

There needs to be some common sense involved, particularly when the play has stopped like that. But at the same time, I suppose it just reinforces the message to all players - once you're on the mark, do not move.

Years of experience with new rules have taught us there isn't common sense until we all get pissed off with them and a memo goes around.

 

[JustaBattler]

I like Gibbons even though he is very under rated. Disagree with observation on highlight reel above- showed over and over again he could force his way into relevancy in contests and also finish off work as well.

 

[Arr0w]

Why would Stamos change his?

And the question wasn't asking you to change your opinion, it was asking you to explain your opinion.

Sorry for the "dead even" on the score involvements, clearly 4.3 to 4.2 is a significant difference (2.4%)

Not asking anyone to change their opinion, just stating the facts in output don't represent Cuners being a better player output wise

Why would I need to explain my opinion, I have cover it ad nauseam and without bias

 

[Macca43]

Not asking anyone to change their opinion, just stating the facts in output don't represent Cuners being a better player output wise

Why would I need to explain my opinion, I have cover it ad nauseam and without bias

Not sure why you are going back to a post from 3 days ago but the facts don't definitively or objectively represent either player as being the better player - the differences are relatively minor and it comes down to personal bias as to what they value more.

You asked this of Stamos;

Yet his stats last year were better than Cuners in a similar position, yet you would have Cuners ahead of him "22nd" spot.

Based on what?

I simply observed the stats weren't actually better and posed you the same question you posed asked - whats good for the goose,

 

[Blue__Balls]

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure why you are going back to a post from 3 days ago but the facts don't definitively or objectively represent either player as being the better player - the differences are relatively minor and it comes down to personal bias as to what they value more.

You asked this of Stamos;


I simply observed the stats weren't actually better and posed you the same question you posed asked - whats good for the goose,

Ummm while similar, Gibbons stats are actually better in the majority of measures

I don't have any bias when determining who I believe should be in the side. This isn't about analyzing draft prospects, it's now about output

As a player, I much prefer the likes of Cuners, who has game changing ability, but consistency of output is more important given our current status

Also, pointless replying unless you have something new that could actually sway my thoughts, rather than rehashing

 

[Macca43]

Ummm while similar, Gibbons stats are actually better in the majority of measures

I don't have any bias when determining who I believe should be in the side. This isn't about analyzing draft prospects, it's now about output

As a player, I much prefer the likes of Cuners, who has game changing ability, but consistency of output is more important given our current status

Also, pointless replying unless you have something new that could actually sway my thoughts, rather than rehashing

SO despite me explicitly stating I am not trying to change you opinion and despite you saying "flip away" when I suggested the question could be flipped and despite the fact the stats aren't clear cut and despite 3 days going past before you resuscitated this discussion we now have you saying I shouldn't respond or try tot change your opinion and the stats are definitive? OK, whatever you say.

 

[DirkDiggler]

2 biggest things I'd like to see an improvement on:
1. Method of entry into our F50. Still too many long bombs to a pack. Needs to be levelled out with kicks out to a leading player.
2. Ability to stop opposition run and carry from HB into their forward line. Smarter positioning required here to stop easy handball links leading to a F50 entry.

Couldn't believe how many times I saw our forwards caught behind their opponents from our long bombing and the lack of spoil. Gave their tall defenders an easy ride would be my biggest criticism. Not enough hard leads from our forwards for my liking.

 

[Arr0w]

SO despite me explicitly stating I am not trying to change you opinion and despite you saying "flip away" when I suggested the question could be flipped and despite the fact the stats aren't clear cut and despite 3 days going past before you resuscitated this discussion we now have you saying I shouldn't respond or try tot change your opinion and the stats are definitive? OK, whatever you say.

Haha

Stats aren't clear cut?

Haha

 

[Ash24]

Oh no, not this again

 

[Macca43]

Haha

Stats aren't clear cut?

Haha

0.7 differential in effective disposals, 0.1 differential in scoring shots, 0.1 differential in score involvements, 0.2 differential in contested possession, 0 differential in tackles.

Throw in the fact that Cuninghams averages are negatively impacted by playing less than a quarter against the hawks and Gibbons having close to triple Cuningham's turnovers (3.3 to 1.2) and having 1/3 more clangers (2.5 to 1.9) and most would say there is no clear cut winner and it depends on personal bias as to what weighting you give to what.

But if you want to think otherwise go for your life.

 

[Macca43]

Oh no, not this again

DOn't worry I am done.

 

[Arr0w]

0.7 differential in effective disposals, 0.1 differential in scoring shots, 0.1 differential in score involvements, 0.2 differential in contested possession, 0 differential in tackles.

Throw in the fact that Cuninghams averages are negatively impacted by playing less than a quarter against the hawks and Gibbons having close to triple Cuningham's turnovers (3.3 to 1.2) and having 1/3 more clangers (2.5 to 1.9) and most would say there is no clear cut winner and it depends on personal bias as to what weighting you give to what.

But if you want to think otherwise go for your life.

I love how you keep validating all my points.

"While similar, Gibbons has better output"

In fact of a number of measures, Gibbo leads 14 v 4, with 3 being even

Negative stats, Cuners leads behinds, Gibbo FA, so let's say one cancels out the other

Need an abacus?

Michael Gibbons and Andrew McPherson AFL Stats Comparison

Michael Gibbons and Andrew McPherson AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

What I do find amusing is you can't help replying to one of my stand alone posts, or getting involved while l am having an interaction with someone else, in this case Stamos, but you still can't get the facts right

What else you got?

 

[Ash24]

Just can't see Gibbons breaking in for a while other than injury depth.

We've recruited to basically make Gibbons depth.

I personally disagree, but it's all subjective. Here is how I would like the forward line to be structured:

HF - Martin, Casboult, Murphy
FF - Fisher, McKay, Betts
I/C - Gibbons, McGovern/Silvagni
Depth - Fogarty, Newnes, Cuningham

While Cunners I think just misses out on a spot, I've taken out Newnes to allow our forwards some more midfield time. While we already know Martin and Murphy will rotate through the midfield, I think it's about time we use our 2-time JJ Liston Trophy winner in his natural position.

 

[SurreyBlue]

IMO - there is one spot open in our best 22.
Best 22
Plowman Jones Marchbank/Newman
Docherty Weitering Saad
SpS Cripps/ECurnow Williams
Martin Casboult/Curnow Fisher
JSoS/McGov McKay Betts
Pitonett/TDK Setterfield Walsh
Murphy Dow Williamson *****
This spot can be filled by any number of guys, including some that are direct substitutes within the 22, but I would rather see more run/midfield types like Stocker, Cuningham, O'Brien, Kennedy, Fogarty, Gibbons, Newnes, etc.

 

[gbatman]

St Kilda will be a much harder proposition and we will see how much our defensive efforts have improved given there speed of ball movement, I hope we keep the midfield rotations high, also will be a good opportunity to see if we have improved our change of gears and whether we can slow the play down if they get a run on, should be a perfect tune up for Rd1.

Absolutely. We probably didn't get to see a great deal of where our weaknesses are V Essendon. We looked ontop of them in all areas and everyone played well. We moved the ball well from defence and won most of the contests. Question remains will we win most of the contests and move the ball as well from defence against a better side? These are tests we need and the coaches need to see it so we can pick a team.