Strategy Midfield Crows Woes

[Doctor B]

Seedsman getting 8 CBAs really does my head in. Under what point has he ever seemed like an in/out midfielder? Seems like an older guy being set up to fail.

Maybe they're shoehorning him in as a point of difference for his height and weight at 190cm & 87kg?

 

[slice]

I'd actually love to know why the coaches aren't putting the kids in at the CBAs (and also why Seedsman gets so many). I'm genuinely interested in the strategic rationale.

I can't imagine they've not considered the development upside of playing the kids in there so there must be a weighty reason not to. Is it a fear of just getting absolutely smashed and with 6-6-6 the scoreboard can blow out too quickly - or is it something else?

Personally, I'd love to see Keays and Laird attend every CBA that they're on the ground for and then rotate the third mid between Hately, Shoey, Jones, Ned (and Berry, Pedler when they're ready). I know it could be pretty one dimensional at times but I'm okay with that if we're exposing more guys.

 

[Scorpus]

It's simple. Our midfield is bad because our midfielders are bad. Our first choice group is a 31-year-old player on a steep decline, a pure inside ball winner with no other tricks, a small defender we converted into a midfielder just half a season ago, and a discarded player from Brisbane.

It will not improve unless the people in that group improve or are replaced. I highly doubt players like Sloane and Crouch will improve, and in my opinion Laird is still unproven as a long term midfield option.

So we have to play the kids. We HAVE to. Every single midfield stoppage needs to be contested by young players assisted by some of the more experienced heads. That's the way forward. Throwing Sloane + Crouch + Laird + Keays into every battle is not the solution. It may limit short term damage but will do absolutely nothing for us long term.

Then on top of that, there's really no other way to put this... we need to draft a Dustin Martin or Patrick Dangerfield type

 

[Golumless]

Maybe they're shoehorning him in as a point of difference for his height and weight at 190cm & 87kg?

The problem is, Seedsman has always been on the outside part of an outside midfielder. There isn't much in his profile which indicates such a transition is possible.

We did this last year too, playing him on the inside for a few weeks before ultimately jettisoning him. Seems like we have no plans for him in our outside midfield group and are just managing his exit.

 

[CrowBox89]

After watching the internal trial the week before, hately, pedlar and berry held their own for much of that game and seemed to have more run than the seniors later in the game against our supposed first choice rotation of Sloane, Keays, Laird and also Crouch in the first half. Sloane couldn’t cope against hately who is the bigger bodied mid and is what every team does against him with success. Schoenberg hasn’t really been given a prolonged run in the middle in either game which is very disappointing especially seeing guys like seed in there. Would much rather see berry and pedlar playing as our half forwards then rotate in through the middle than Murphy or Jones who aren’t mids.
they need to find a way to play Schoenberg, hately, pedlar and berry in the AFL side and give them midfield minutes and especially together at times so they can develop as a midfield group which would mean we move on crouch at the end of the season (this may be a need to get another pick to package up and move up the draft to get Horne) and Sloane can’t be playing as a mid he hasn’t looked upto it and is far to easy to negate.

 

[DJ75]

Play Sloane in a forward pocket. he knows how to kick a goal, he can take contested marks and he still has the energy to be a pressure forward in the front half of the ground.

I think a front 6 as below could be quite exciting - a good mix of contested marking, goal sense and high pressure

Rowe Fogarty Sloane
McAdam Thilthorpe McHenry

I like that a lot.
Except we know the club will pick Lynch and Walker first and then fill in around it.
We also need someone who can pinch hit in the ruck. Meanwhile Fog is showing little.
I'd love that forward line to be picked and to work, but think it's highly unlikely.

Our biggest issue is that Sloane can't play mid, so has to play forward. That leaves us with Lynch, Walker & Sloane in the F50. All that does is hamper our ability to develop players.

Being somewhat realistic, I'd think the following should be our forward line in round 1:

Rowe Frampton Sloane
McAdam Walker Lynch

Thilthorpe starts on the bench, and rotates through Frampton, Walker & Lynch positions as well as on the wing. We need to remember how mobile Thilthorpe is.

 

[DJ75]

I'd actually love to know why the coaches aren't putting the kids in at the CBAs (and also why Seedsman gets so many). I'm genuinely interested in the strategic rationale.

I can't imagine they've not considered the development upside of playing the kids in there so there must be a weighty reason not to. Is it a fear of just getting absolutely smashed and with 6-6-6 the scoreboard can blow out too quickly - or is it something else?

Personally, I'd love to see Keays and Laird attend every CBA that they're on the ground for and then rotate the third mid between Hately, Shoey, Jones, Ned (and Berry, Pedler when they're ready). I know it could be pretty one dimensional at times but I'm okay with that if we're exposing more guys.

If that was the rationale, then they probably want to watch what happens to the senior guys! Our 'best' mids get smashed as well.

 

[Scorpus]

We also need someone who can pinch hit in the ruck.

I find it puzzling people say this relating to sides that have Thilthorpe in it.

Last I checked the guy is 200cm and played ruck in the SANFL last year. We don't need to add Himmelberg or Frampton or any other guy into that side if they aren't performing. Thilthorpe can do the 10 minutes of rucking a game that's required.

 

[Betts are off]

Of course last year has no relevance. That squad is done, and the remnants are largely marking time as the list gets turned over. I'm not sure even Matt Crouch and Laird are in our next contending team.

We seem to have nailed last year's draft and will have more currency this year. No point in assessing the midfield today. Wait 18 months.

Yep, as Nicks has said publicly on multiple occasions, patience will be required. The core of this team is in its infancy, but we'll know more by the end of this year.

Best to temper expectations, and look for the flashes!

 

[DJ75]

I find it puzzling people say this relating to sides that have Thilthorpe in it.

Last I checked the guy is 200cm and played ruck in the SANFL last year. We don't need to add Himmelberg or Frampton or any other guy into that side if they aren't performing. Thilthorpe can do the 10 minutes of rucking a game that's required.

It's about protecting the kids body. Yes he rucked a bit at SANFL level, but he also ended the season early with groin issues.
I'd rather he not play ruck at all if we can help it. When he is 22? Sure. Now? No thanks.

 

[mistylake]

Then on top of that, there's really no other way to put this... we need to draft a Dustin Martin or Patrick Dangerfield type

We’re screwed if that’s the only way forward. 17 other teams also looking for that needle in a haystack.

 

[Scorpus]

It's about protecting the kids body. Yes he rucked a bit at SANFL level, but he also ended the season early with groin issues.
I'd rather he not play ruck at all if we can help it. When he is 22? Sure. Now? No thanks.

Himmelberg averaged something like 8 ruck contests a match, most of those against the side's second string ruck.

You don't reckon Thilthorpe could manage that?

 

[Doctor B]

The problem is, Seedsman has always been on the outside part of an outside midfielder. There isn't much in his profile which indicates such a transition is possible.

We did this last year too, playing him on the inside for a few weeks before ultimately jettisoning him. Seems like we have no plans for him in our outside midfield group and are just managing his exit.

Agreed with Seedsman in the middle, although an in form Seed can still play wing well, especially now Milera has gone down.

I'd like to see Pedlar and Berry fast tracked to play blocks of 3 or 4 games at AFL level with some CBA's.
One out to SANFL/rest one in.

 

[moogerfooger]

We’re screwed if that’s the only way forward. 17 other teams also looking for that needle in a haystack.

A lot easier if we finish bottom again.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I find it puzzling people say this relating to sides that have Thilthorpe in it.

Last I checked the guy is 200cm and played ruck in the SANFL last year. We don't need to add Himmelberg or Frampton or any other guy into that side if they aren't performing. Thilthorpe can do the 10 minutes of rucking a game that's required.

The bar for relief ruckwork has been set pretty high historically by Jenkins and co

Thilthorpe can't expect to just waltz in there

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Yep, as Nicks has said publicly on multiple occasions, patience will be required. The core of this team is in its infancy, but we'll know more by the end of this year.

Patience will be required with Pedlar, Berry and Thilthorpe because we won't play any of them

 

[Betts are off]

We’re screwed if that’s the only way forward. 17 other teams also looking for that needle in a haystack.

15 by my count

 

[Crow till I die]

We’re screwed if that’s the only way forward. 17 other teams also looking for that needle in a haystack.

cough cough..Jason Horne..cough..

Seriously though, if we are a bottom 4 side we get a good chance to have a crack at him and having seen him live, he looks a super talented mid in the making

 

[Betts are off]

Patience will be required with Pedlar, Berry and Thilthorpe because we won't play any of them

I think you're painting this regime with the Campo/Burton/Pyke selection policy brush.

If we are going on exposed form then so far under Nicks we've shown a huge tendency towards playing youth.

 

[hey shorty]

So all of last year has no relevance?

Do you think it's more a coaching issue than a talent issue?

There's certainly elements of both.

There's no denying we were woefully under resourced coaching wise which has been solved. We've missed the mark with kids though I'm not willing to write Jones and Ned off just yet.

2020 draft looks to have given us a couple of good picks, and this is a very mid heavy draft.

 

[Scorpus]

I think you're painting this regime with the Campo/Burton/Pyke selection policy brush.

If we are going on exposed form then so far under Nicks we've shown a huge tendency towards playing youth.

Later in the season, sure.

My recollection is we only debuted one player per game in the opening rounds, instead focusing mostly on experienced recruits like Frampton, Keays and Crocker

 

[hey shorty]

Later in the season, sure.

My recollection is we only debuted one player per game in the opening rounds, instead focusing mostly on experienced recruits like Frampton, Keays and Crocker

Keays wasn't what you'd call experienced

 

[Cleric]

Stopped reading after writing off McHenry, who has been one of our better performers so far this pre season. These threads are also pointless in pre season, especially after unofficial trial games.

McHenry is a trier, but he lacks class and has no weapons.
You can't fault his endeavor, but you can fault his skills.
I hope he makes it, as apparently he is a great team man.

 

[Scorpus]

Keays wasn't what you'd call experienced

Had 30 games under his belt, certainly more experienced than our first/second year players and he was prioritized ahead of them.

I expect something similar this year. We'll pick Hately over Pedlar/Berry who will have to wait until mid season for their chance. I don't think there's anything wrong with picking Hately in this scenario but I doubt it will be based purely on form

 

[Golumless]

Himmelberg averaged something like 8 ruck contests a match, most of those against the side's second string ruck.

You don't reckon Thilthorpe could manage that?

Do we want Thilthrope doing that though? Whilst it is a way to get him into the side, it does put extra wear and tear on the body.

As a personal opinion, Riley is too talented to be wasted as a 2nd ruck. That's for the more 'hack' forwards, i.e. the Framptons/Himmelbergs, of this world.