Strategy Midfield Crows Woes

[CrowBox89]

Agree. Thilthorpe can go into the ruck only if it's against Max or Ben King.

Agreed and also no centre bounces that’s where he can get a knee in the ribs but around the ground happy for him to get into a wrestle against the oppo’s 2nd ruck/fwd

 

[Torpedro]

We usually do pick 1 or 2 kids early days. McAsey, Fog, Milera, Jones all got gigs straight up.

History actually does suggest we will.

I see Rowe and Hatley as the most likely debutants for round 1. Although Hatley might be on shaky ground after last week’s performance

 

[97-98]

ROB.
Half our problems right there.
Got absolutely pantsed by Strahan in the internal trial at centre bounces.
ROB's alright around the ground, where he can use his strength to jostle, but he's diabolical at centre bounces. He cannot jump and tap/direct the ball at all.

 

[Mutineer]

You play Himmelberg with RT because Berg is the most likely out of him and Billy to be part of our next contending team. He's clearly a confidence player and after so long on our list, he needs to be backed in. If he stinks it up this year, then you look for alternatives.

Frampton is hardly in the "veteran" category yet and I don't know how closely you watched his ruck work on the weekend against a pretty reasonable player in Lycett but to me he looked very competitive which is a real bonus IMO. I remember only too well what a momentum killer it was for us when Jenkins went into the ruck to give our No.1 ruck a spell. I don't want to see ROB run into the ground.

 

[Jirkago75]

I don't have a problem selecting Keays given he performed. But the discussion was whether we'd pick Pedlar and Berry straight off the bat. Our history suggests we won't, and we'll prioritize the more experienced players to begin with

To many people are freaking out over the trial game on the weekend. It’s not ideal to play the same team twice in a row and how do the coaches work it. Normally it’s this game that they play the best side, I think we will play Berry, thilthorpe and Frampton.

We need to pick based on form, Berry been great so far and and a toughness we’ve lakes for a while and Frampton edges out Himm on form at the moment. I think Pedler will have to wait for an opportunity a bit later.

last week was a trial, let’s not forget that. We will be near the bottom but I see big improvement in the side.

 

[rocket18]

I'm not putting RT in the ruck. While he is 100kgs, putting him in the ruck where he is constantly banging into the biggest guys on the ground isn't going to do his body any good.
I would use him full time in the forward line, maybe even onto a wing for shits and giggles, then use Himmelberg to chop out both in the ruck and forward line.
I think we can have three talls in the side.
Himmelberg is pretty mobile and I think it could be worth trying him as a Key Defender.

I don't know how big RT's tank is but I like the idea of giving him a licence to roam on the wing, let him use his natural talent without getting crashed by 3 defenders by being the main man at CHF in his first couple of years.

Probably hasn't got Tom Lynches tank but would love to see him in that role whilst he's still developing his size and footy smarts (plus we could then drop Tom)

 

[Mutineer]

I don't know how big RT's tank is but I like the idea of giving him a licence to roam on the wing, let him use his natural talent without getting crashed by 3 defenders by being the main man at CHF in his first couple of years.

Probably hasn't got Tom Lynches tank but would love to see him in that role whilst he's still developing his size and footy smarts (plus we could then drop Tom)

His endurance numbers suggest he might even have a superior tank to Tommy.

I recall him winning West Adelaide Seniors's 2km pre-season run by a big margin as a 16 year old.

 

[Cleric]

I don't have a problem selecting Keays given he performed. But the discussion was whether we'd pick Pedlar and Berry straight off the bat. Our history suggests we won't, and we'll prioritize the more experienced players to begin with

I would hope the Crows have watched Port to see how them playing all three of their first round picks in the side actually helped develop them quicker. Butters, Rozee and Duursma haven't looked back.
We don't have a loaded experienced midfield group. Sloane, Crouch and Keys are really the only guaranteed ones. We should play Schoenberg, Pedler and Berry off the bat as well.
I mean, unless the club still thinks we are in the premiership window of course....

 

[Mutineer]

I would hope the Crows have watched Port to see how them playing all three of their first round picks in the side actually helped develop them quicker. Butters, Rozee and Duursma haven't looked back.
We don't have a loaded experienced midfield group. Sloane, Crouch and Keys are really the only guaranteed ones. We should play Schoenberg, Pedler and Berry off the bat as well.
I mean, unless the club still thinks we are in the premiership window of course....

None of Butters, Rozee or Duursma played midfield in their 1st season but.

 

[Slippery Pete]

To many people are freaking out over the trial game on the weekend. It’s not ideal to play the same team twice in a row and how do the coaches work it. Normally it’s this game that they play the best side, I think we will play Berry, thilthorpe and Frampton.

We need to pick based on form, Berry been great so far and and a toughness we’ve lakes for a while and Frampton edges out Himm on form at the moment. I think Pedler will have to wait for an opportunity a bit later.

last week was a trial, let’s not forget that. We will be near the bottom but I see big improvement in the side.

I don’t think they’re freaking out over the trial, I think they’re freaking out over the last 23 years.

 

[GrommoT]

I actually called it!
I said before that we get Luko back and play Lukosious and Thilthorpe as our two wingers.

I was joking of course, but might not be that wrong after all!!

 

[Cleric]

None of Butters, Rozee or Duursma played midfield in their 1st season but.

True, but I think Pedler and Berry have the body for AFL already. Both have played against men in the country.

 

[Mutineer]

True, but I think Pedler and Berry have the body for AFL already. Both have played against men in the country.

So had Chayce Jones in the Tasmanian State League which has to be a step up from bush footy...Not only that but Chayce would likely have won the Tassie Medal for B & F if he wasn't required for the U18 Championships and the Tassie Devils for a lot of the season, as it was he was runner up.

 

[Cleric]

So had Chayce Jones in the Tasmanian State League which has to be a step up from bush footy...Not only that but Chayce would likely have won the Tassie Medal for B & F if he wasn't required for the U18 Championships and the Tassie Devils for a lot of the season, as it was he was runner up.

Chases best weapons are his breakaway speed and ability to kick bunches of goals. While he was able do that at local level, you get caught more and the opposition play tighter on you. I didn't see him as a physical bull like Berry and Pedler at the same age.
I remember Dangers first year, he got caught alot trying to take the game on, but obviously as his body got stronger he was then able to break the lines again.
Once Chayce beefs up I think it will really help his game. And judging by how much bigger he looks this year, I think the club think the same way.
I still like him. Confidence and getting played in his right position will help as well.
I might be wrong but he was never a big possession type player in Tassie?

 

[Mutineer]

Chases best weapons are his breakaway speed and ability to kick bunches of goals. While he was able do that at local level, you get caught more and the opposition play tighter on you. I didn't see him as a physical bull like Berry and Pedler at the same age.
I remember Dangers first year, he got caught alot trying to take the game on, but obviously as his body got stronger he was then able to break the lines again.
Once Chayce beefs up I think it will really help his game. And judging by how much bigger he looks this year, I think the club think the same way.
I still like him. Confidence and getting played in his right position will help as well.
I might be wrong but he was never a big possession type player in Tassie?

Nope you're wrong, he played midfield for Launy Seniors and won plenty of the pill.

I don't think former AFL player and Launy coach Sam Lonergan at the time is a mug when it comes to assessing players.

 

[Cleric]

Nope you're wrong, he played midfield for Launy Seniors and won plenty of the pill.

I don't think former AFL player and Launy coach Sam Lonergan at the time is a mug when it comes to assessing players.

View attachment 1068448

I'm not anti Chayce. He played well in his draft year and has shown glimpses of what he can do at AFL level. I was happy with us taking him at the pick we did.
But he has has issues getting the ball at AFL level and the strengths he has had as a jr he hasn't been able to reproduce that. I couldn't find his stats for Launceston, but at the National carnival he averaged 24 disposals a game, which is decent.
I like his breakaway speed from a contest and the fact he can kick multiple goals.

 

[Damp Squarie]

Yep, I’m not sure what else anyone was expecting. It will take time for VB to implement his philosophies, especially with a largely very young group. Hardly an indicator against a developed midfield during pre season as to how things will look during the main thing, of course we aren’t at the level of top 4 sides yet. Port’s midfield was a rabble 3 years ago and this board used to take the piss out of Voss as their mids coach.

Are you saying VB will impart some midfield smarts?
We’re ****ed then.

 

[hey shorty]

Are you saying VB will impart some midfield smarts?
We’re ****ed then.

Worked for West Coast

 

[hey shorty]

ROB.
Half our problems right there.
Got absolutely pantsed by Strahan in the internal trial at centre bounces.
ROB's alright around the ground, where he can use his strength to jostle, but he's diabolical at centre bounces. He cannot jump and tap/direct the ball at all.

It's an unpopular opinion but I share it.

He does so so many things right, but even a big hack thump forward would do wonders at times.

 

[Cleric]

One real improvement in the mids we have brought in over the last few years is that a number of them can actually kick goals on a consistent basis.
Chayce Jones

1

Chayce Jones

Age

24

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.7

2star

T

1.9

4star

MG

178.6

3star

D

8.9

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.6

3star

MG

143.3

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

175.0

3star

can kick bunches of goals.
Luke Pedler can kick goals coming out of the centre.
Jackson Hately

6

Jackson Hately

Age

23

Ht

191cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.3

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.2

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

5.8

3star

M

4.8

4star

T

1.4

2star

CL

0.4

3star

D

17.2

5star

K

8.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

is a strong marking option in the forward line and can kick goals.
Harry Schoenberg also kicks goals regularly.

Having a midfield that can add a half a dozen goals per match is a big time improvement over what we had with Brad and Matt being our major mids.

 

[Mutineer]

I'm not anti Chayce. He played well in his draft year and has shown glimpses of what he can do at AFL level. I was happy with us taking him at the pick we did.
But he has has issues getting the ball at AFL level and the strengths he has had as a jr he hasn't been able to reproduce that. I couldn't find his stats for Launceston, but at the National carnival he averaged 24 disposals a game, which is decent.
I like his breakaway speed from a contest and the fact he can kick multiple goals.

I agree with most of this but I think our coaching staff upon his arrival have absolutely butchered his development and taken away his natural football instincts, and as for those suggesting he only has straight line speed I say bullshit to that. Anyone that watched his Allies games at the Championships or availed themselves of his TSL games that are still up on Youtube I'm pretty sure they'd know that was bunkum, he has a great agility, a good sidestep and excellent lateral movement.

Chayce Jones

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A versatile, speedy player of great character who finds the football and works hard defensively."

afl.draftcentral.com.au

SUMMARY


Jones is still firming as possible first round selection, after an eye-catching National Under 18 Championships. His performances in the Tasmanian State League have also been encouraging, with the classy midfielder averaging 23.3 disposals, 8.3 clearances and 6.6 tackles over seven games this season. The goal-kicking midfielder definitely possesses plenty of promising qualities that many AFL clubs will be eager to develop. He is a potential future captain with high-level speed, agility, defensive pressure and scoreboard pressure.

 

[Geoffa32]

I agree with most of this but I think our coaching staff upon his arrival have absolutely butchered his development and taken away his natural football instincts, and as for those suggesting he only has straight line speed I say bullshit to that. Anyone that watched his Allies games at the Championships or availed themselves of his TSL games that are still up on Youtube I'm pretty sure they'd know that was bunkum, he has a great agility, a good sidestep and excellent lateral movement.

Chayce Jones

DRAFT ANALYSIS: "A versatile, speedy player of great character who finds the football and works hard defensively."

afl.draftcentral.com.au

SUMMARY


Jones is still firming as possible first round selection, after an eye-catching National Under 18 Championships. His performances in the Tasmanian State League have also been encouraging, with the classy midfielder averaging 23.3 disposals, 8.3 clearances and 6.6 tackles over seven games this season. The goal-kicking midfielder definitely possesses plenty of promising qualities that many AFL clubs will be eager to develop. He is a potential future captain with high-level speed, agility, defensive pressure and scoreboard pressure.

With all due respect, the AFL midfield is a massive step up from Tassie Football. Not just physically, but mentally.

So many offensive and defensive structures to learn. Need to know about positioning and reading play.

Basically to be a good AFL mid you need high Footy IQ.


The last line of that write up sums up where he fits in the AFL. Small Forward.

Game comes to him, less hunting involved, far more linear. He does have great goal sense and a good tackle.

However in the middle, the game is mentally too quick for him.


You can blame the coaching, but look at McHenry. He has shown he has great positioning and ball sense. Knows where to be to make an impact.

Has gone past Jones in terms of getting a gig in the middle.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[BrissyCrow]

So, we all saw last year. Our midfield was gash.

You don't really finish bottom unless your midfield is the worst in the league.

A semi-decent midfield can hide a lot of sins ahead of and behind the ball.

And our first outing this preseason against an oppo that wasn't us revealed the same problem.

This is largely why I was a Hollands fan at the draft. But Thilly looks a good prospect.

The question now is: WTF do we do about our midfield?

Galluci and Poholke were busts. Jones and McHenry looking likewise (damn that super draft).

Schoenberg looks solid. You can also see potential in Pedlar and Berry (small sample size, granted).

The big question is, option 1 or option 2:

Option 1: do we wait 4 or 5 years until these lads mature (plus whoever we add with pick 1 or 2 this year who hopefully won't be yet another tall),

Option 2: Do we go the Brisbane Lachie Neale route and throw the bank at an established youngish mid with high potential that the lads can orbit around and accelerate their development?

Heaven knows Sloane is way past midfield duties, Laird was never really meant to be a midfielder, and Matt Crouch is just a useful extractor.

There is no quality midfield arising without strategic decisions being made.

Discuss.

Personally I prefer Option 2. I am not too sure about who we should try to attract. It doesnt have to be a well established mid fielder but someone that we have the confidence could make an impact. I like the idea of a younger player like Mat Rowel but I also know that wont happen. However Dylan Stephens could just be the the type of midfielder we need. So I would be chasing him whist we try and develop some of our other players. Is he available and how much would he cost. I am not sure but we need someone like him in our midfield.

 

[hey shorty]

With all due respect, the AFL midfield is a massive step up from Tassie Football. Not just physically, but mentally.

So many offensive and defensive structures to learn. Need to know about positioning and reading play.

Basically to be a good AFL mid you need high Footy IQ.


The last line of that write up sums up where he fits in the AFL. Small Forward.

Game comes to him, less hunting involved, far more linear. He does have great goal sense and a good tackle.

However in the middle, the game is mentally too quick for him.


You can blame the coaching, but look at McHenry. He has shown he has great positioning and ball sense. Knows where to be to make an impact.

Has gone past Jones in terms of getting a gig in the middle.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

That's simply not true

 

[Mutineer]

With all due respect, the AFL midfield is a massive step up from Tassie Football. Not just physically, but mentally.

So many offensive and defensive structures to learn. Need to know about positioning and reading play.

Basically to be a good AFL mid you need high Footy IQ.


The last line of that write up sums up where he fits in the AFL. Small Forward.

Game comes to him, less hunting involved, far more linear. He does have great goal sense and a good tackle.

However in the middle, the game is mentally too quick for him.


You can blame the coaching, but look at McHenry. He has shown he has great positioning and ball sense. Knows where to be to make an impact.

Has gone past Jones in terms of getting a gig in the middle.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Nope, totally disagree.

"Basically to be a good AFL mid you need high Footy IQ."

You seriously believe this?