- Sep 23, 2012
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That's all true but blind Freddy can see our recruiting has been woeful too. Nicks would agree I'm sure.
Review Hamish 2021
- Thread starter mattymac
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Oh we have the best list in the league do we?
We are the reigning spooners and odds on to win it again, talk about FFS
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This comment totally misses the point!
Even after several years on our list these guys are showing nothing.
THAT is why they are busts.
There is definitely a problem with selecting or developing midfielders. The fact is that we haven't found a half-decent one in the 8 years since Matt Crouch.
They've drafted plenty, but they either drafted the wrong ines, or screwed up their development something awful, because all we have to show for it is a field of potatoes.
I don't subscribe to Scorpus' theory about giving games to players we then sack. All Scorpus is achieving there is demonstrating a lack of understanding as to the difference between weekly team selections (which are all about short-term success) and list management (which is all about the future).
I look at the list and see it very differently. Crouch and Lever are both very good players, but they are both at other clubs now. That's not a failure of selection or development, though I will point out that neither was being developed in the last 5 years when our development problems really became chronic.
Milera & Doedee are successes. Milera is perpetually injured, but that's not a development or selection issue.
Thilthorpe, Pedlar and Cook are 1st year draftees. It's waaaaay too early to make any calls about them.
That leaves Jones, Fogarty, Gallucci, and McAsey...
All signs so far point to Fogarty being a dud selection. He was a man child, who used his size to dominate the junior ranks. That hasn't translated to the senior level, where he has no identifiable position, and still lacks the fitness and drive to impact games on a consistent basis.
Jones, i think is a failure of development. Our coaches have completely confused him, messed up his mind, and destroyed his confidence.
Gallucci, I think, was a bad selection. At least Jones showed talent before the coaches destroyed him. Gallucci never showed anything.
That leaves McAsey. I don't think that he was a selection failure. His problems are complex. Partly it's poor coaching and development. Partly it's him being forced to play at the top level before he was anywhere near ready. Partly it's Coronavirus, which played merry hell with all of our youngsters last year, with the 1st year draftees the worst affected.
So, of the 7 players who have been around long enough to make meaningful comment, only 2 appear to be draft selection failures.
They've drafted plenty, but they either drafted the wrong ines, or screwed up their development something awful, because all we have to show for it is a field of potatoes.
I don't subscribe to Scorpus' theory about giving games to players we then sack. All Scorpus is achieving there is demonstrating a lack of understanding as to the difference between weekly team selections (which are all about short-term success) and list management (which is all about the future).
I look at the list and see it very differently. Crouch and Lever are both very good players, but they are both at other clubs now. That's not a failure of selection or development, though I will point out that neither was being developed in the last 5 years when our development problems really became chronic.
Milera & Doedee are successes. Milera is perpetually injured, but that's not a development or selection issue.
Thilthorpe, Pedlar and Cook are 1st year draftees. It's waaaaay too early to make any calls about them.
That leaves Jones, Fogarty, Gallucci, and McAsey...
All signs so far point to Fogarty being a dud selection. He was a man child, who used his size to dominate the junior ranks. That hasn't translated to the senior level, where he has no identifiable position, and still lacks the fitness and drive to impact games on a consistent basis.
Jones, i think is a failure of development. Our coaches have completely confused him, messed up his mind, and destroyed his confidence.
Gallucci, I think, was a bad selection. At least Jones showed talent before the coaches destroyed him. Gallucci never showed anything.
That leaves McAsey. I don't think that he was a selection failure. His problems are complex. Partly it's poor coaching and development. Partly it's him being forced to play at the top level before he was anywhere near ready. Partly it's Coronavirus, which played merry hell with all of our youngsters last year, with the 1st year draftees the worst affected.
So, of the 7 players who have been around long enough to make meaningful comment, only 2 appear to be draft selection failures.
but you support developing our kids in the SANFL for 2-3 years, no matter how high they were drafted. Could it be this is a part of the problem?
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Selection is plainly a part of development, but you're right its also broader.
But you've long been an advocate of fixed immovable player rankings prioritising senior players?
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
And even now, when those players are hindered by it he just freestyles meritless excuses like it's their fault for being lazy, or they don't have a position.
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Fancy being this smug about making such an inane assertion.
Weekly selection has nothing to do with the playing lists future you reckon? And you're bragging about this view?
- May 10, 2016
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The crux of the problem is list management which then dictates what type of player we take in the draft and the fact that we have always targetted underdeveloped players that are not ready for AFL. They targetted the underdeveloped "project" player as they have mismanaged our cap through an overvaluing of senior players and therefore feel pressure to play the aging overpaid player on the decline over a kid to justify their mismanagement. We haven't used the draft for its intended purpose and by extension haven't treated it with any respect. In saying that Ogivie's selections have been pitiful. Until our attitude on younger players changes our problems will continue.
Fix the culture by fixing list management and players won't leverage our poor culture against us in contract negotiations. Once we start to pay people their true value then we will be able to entice players to our club.
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Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Its nonsense that we always draft players inherently less ready than other clubs.
We just demand a higher state of 'readiness' to play, which in translation just means that there are no senior players that want the spot instead. You literally have to wait through an entire generation of footballer to get in there, because we will never move these guys on or not prioritise them.
Fog has been forced to wait for Walker to decide he's pulling up stumps for four ******* years now, and it has nothing to do with performance: he's performed comparably to the elite forwards for his age and experience. Walker has only declined. We're just not willing to involve him in our game plan, or you know, play him. If he was a 50 game player by now, which he should be...
We just demand a higher state of 'readiness' to play, which in translation just means that there are no senior players that want the spot instead. You literally have to wait through an entire generation of footballer to get in there, because we will never move these guys on or not prioritise them.
Fog has been forced to wait for Walker to decide he's pulling up stumps for four ******* years now, and it has nothing to do with performance: he's performed comparably to the elite forwards for his age and experience. Walker has only declined. We're just not willing to involve him in our game plan, or you know, play him. If he was a 50 game player by now, which he should be...
Under normal circumstances, in years where we were contending, they would always pick the strongest possible team. That meant picking the best players, hence the concept of the pecking order. Yes, the pecking order is heavily weighted towards the more experienced players.
I have never said that it was fixed or immovable.
- Jun 15, 2005
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Doesn't matter who you draft if your development is garbage.
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Can you really not work out the problem with your claim?
You support a selection policy that skews towards experience, but claim this isnt fixed. How do you think less experienced players can overtake more experienced players if we use experience as the selection criterion?
Fog just isn't good enough, and probably won't win the position if/when Walker does pull up stumps.
Berg & TT appear to be easily our best tall forward options for the future.
Fog was a Hamish blunder. He's just not an AFL footballer.
- May 10, 2016
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My argument is that we don't really want the drafted player to replace the contracted experienced declining player. Because they have overextended our cap this means that there is no place for the drafted player as it makes the decision-makers look bad having the highly paid experienced player sitting in the two's. The problem is that we can't move experienced declining players on to save ourselves and the younger players are the one's who suffer. Therefore the club subconsciously believes there is less urgency in nailing the pick for a player who is ready to play and is ready to impact instantly. All comes down to an overvaluing of our list and an undervaluing of what we can get out of the draft. The other thing the club doesn't understand is that by moving players out with value you attract players in. Our attitude is completely wrong.
Our problems aren't going to be solved solely through the draft. We must start to attract decent players in through the trade.
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Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Good luck finding some, other than that 1 game against the Weagles.
I'm concerned about Fog. But let's be honest we aren't playing him enough in the spot he is likely to make it
His size isn't that different to other successful KP forwards
His size isn't that different to other successful KP forwards
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
Other than the evidence, good luck with the evidence.
Southerntakeover
Hall of Famer
And more particularly, giving him the role and the game plan status necessary. He needs to be a leading forward, and he needs to be targeted.
Picking a guy with his skill set and making him an undefined role third tall who has to stay out of the way and who doesnt get anywhere near the targets of other players is never putting him in a position to succeed.
We have 4 players on the list with between 50-150 games experience.
Seed Kelly Milera & Crouch, how many A graders to build a list around there?
8 players with between 50-200 games.
Lynch Laird Brown Smith added to the above 4.
The stability selection policy has screwed the club over.
Seed Kelly Milera & Crouch, how many A graders to build a list around there?
8 players with between 50-200 games.
Lynch Laird Brown Smith added to the above 4.
The stability selection policy has screwed the club over.
jackster83
The leader of the bunch.
Excluding players in their first or second years, we have a max of 6 players we could choose from.
Milera
Doedee
Jones
McHenry
Gallucci
Fog
Milera's injured leaving a max of 5. We're playing two. Wouldnt mind betting we end up with 4 before long.
Is our issue drafting or development? I'd place more blame on development than selection over the last few years.
Also, our gameplan places too much pressure on our players. Its s**t. It screws their development.
Milera
Doedee
Jones
McHenry
Gallucci
Fog
Milera's injured leaving a max of 5. We're playing two. Wouldnt mind betting we end up with 4 before long.
Is our issue drafting or development? I'd place more blame on development than selection over the last few years.
Also, our gameplan places too much pressure on our players. Its s**t. It screws their development.
- Feb 8, 2013
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Exactly
Yet we persist with the same drafting and developing team during the most important times for their respective roles - a rebuild.
