Review Dogs 100 def Eagles 93 - Rd 2, 2021

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Anja_Nees said:
I get the impression that has happened a few times. Has never exactly looked jacked.

I think he’s great but he’s found himself out of favour a few times. It’s not like Gardner is Rance so the fact he and Young can’t get a look in tends to suggest they’re doing something wrong.
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In my opinion Bevo plays favourites quite often. He's obsessed with multi-dimensional players that can play multiple positions in the ground. I understand the attractiveness of it, but I don't think every player in the first 22 needs to fit that bracket.

I think he sees more flexibility in Gardener than Cordy or Young, though I still prefer both Young and Cordy to Gardener.
 
I'm interested in the views of those at the game regarding our backline positioning.

Watching on TV, it seemed a total waste to have Keath pushed up the ground, almost like an old fashioned chb, having the ball constantly kicked over his head while Williams and even Duryea were left badly mismatched size wise deep.

Playing Keath deeper and getting Williams even more involved as a ball carrier and rebounding option up the ground seems logical viewing from afar.

Did the situation seem different live, when the full structures are easier to see?
 

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threenewpadlocks said:
Just a few thoughts about the style we played:

  • People have to understand in the context of selection, performance and expectation, we play pretty much the most rigid system in the entire competition. We have defined roles and players are picked to fit that system, and players don't rotate through different roles within the game. We're rotating the least amount of players through centre bounces. We've stuck with a defensive unit that's picked players that on paper look pretty weird (Dale converted, Scott debuting and converted, Gardner maligned), but that's because we define the team balance and role first, then look for attributes that can pick that role, and not the other way around.
  • This very rigid system is hard for fans to get their head around, because it's from the exact same coach who did the exact opposite to win us a flag. We developed a fluid philosophy based around the skills of the team as a whole, and those skills to be used in any position that rotated, to win us a flag. These two tactical systems are on opposite ends of the scale and it's kind of weird to see some of the same players and the same coach execute them.
  • Bruce is getting his mojo back. When St Kilda turned him into a key forward from being a key defender way back when they first recruited him in 2014, he kicked 168 goals over the 91 games he did. Not superstar stuff, but that's the reason we gave him his contract when we did. I think the bubble stuff, having to make two major adjustments in a new team (with the new team itself, and when Naughton came back partway through the season last year), and both him and our S&C team stuffing him up, and the kicking yips got to him. Even with a whole season sample size, there's a reason we kept him for every game last year and played him key forward, and that's showing through. A whole offseason to work with Naughton and English up forward, get his body right, 11 marks (though with the yips last week) and 3 goals straight from toughish shots this week really solid return.
  • Teams have worked out that they can't let Naughton be the pack marking jumping threat like he was in 2019, but the more time he spends forwards, the more natural his leading patterns become, and his goalkicking will incrementally improve too.
  • We use Scott as the bloke behind the stoppage, the tip of the defensive unit. He theoretically has running capability, concentration and ground-ball winning to play this role that nobody else really has the balance of doing. Ask yourself though - can we rejig the role a bit to balance our defence better? I think we need a bit more support in the air, which means Wood is back. This puts a bit more on the plate of Dale though who might need to step up behind the stoppage.
  • Gardner's in the team because his physical attributes match up to the roles we ask of our defenders. When you watch games live, whilst he might not be Liam Jones, Dougal Howard, or Sam Collins killing the ball in the contest with spoiling and preventing forwards from pack marking, he sprints from point A to point B quicker and that gives us the confidence to push men around and ahead of the stoppage, knowing we don't have to roll one back to cover for endurance/speed/agility limitations of our key defenders.
  • Give Wallis a break. Goalkicking can be funny and a small sample size isn't really representative. His bloody accurate kicking helped our 2nd half of the season drive back into the finals, but could also be considered a bit "lucky" in the sense nobody (except Tory Dickson) kicks that well over an extended period of time, this is just regression to the mean.
  • Hunter's endurance running in last quarters on the wing, kicking aside, is a tactic for two weeks in a row, after playing half-forward for the first few games. Treloar on the ball in the last lets us throw Bont ahead of the ball as well. As much as I said we had a rigid system above, it's very much that rigid nature that allows any change in positions and role to have such a big impact - because - for any other team it would just be an ordinary rotation. For us, it's a change that the opposition hasn't seen for the entire match, and it accounts for the fact that the 75 interchange cap and players adjusting to a year off of shorter games, means that we are thinking about fatigue as part of our tactics in last quarter of games and how the game opens as players tire.
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Treloar into the middle and Hunter onto the wing helped turn the game in the last.

I don’t see why Hunter, Treloar, smith and Lipinski can’t share the wing rotations.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
VogonProsthetnic said:
How good was Bailey Williams in the last quarter?

We are ahead by 1 point, ball is kicked to Ryan on the lead- Bailey spoils then beats 3 players to get the ball out. Result is Bonts match winning goal.Won us the game that play.
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Dare I say it, but it was positively Shane Biggs like.
 
Admittedly I only watched it on tv, but I don’t recall Keath having many goals kicked on him at all. Most seemed to come on Gardner and Duryea. Keath held darling quite well I thought. I’m comfortable with him being the #1 KPD.
NicNat simply unstoppable in the third turned the game. After being soundly beaten all day, Stef willed himself to break even in the last and gave us a sniff. Respect.
 
Great game.

Bailey Dale has impressed me with his overhead ability down back. Big tick for mine.

We were up against it with the way they were kicking for goal. Was a very good win in the end. I'm not too concerned their talls dominated because that was pretty much expected. Them being so accurate probably was out of the norm though.

The only negatives for mine was our kicking for goal again. Need to really capitalise when we've got the momentum.

I think it's time for Bevo to make a change with Scott. We have too many experienced defenders playing VFL that would improve the team by taking his spot in the 22.

Wallis needs to make the most of his shots on goal because structurally we'd be better off with another quick goalsneak in the side.
 
Crowd tally is fine especially for a Sunday arvo against an interstate team.

If that game doesn’t drag out more members I don’t know what will.
 
Make no mistake that was a very good win. Despite playing lackluster for 3 and a half quarters, this part of the season isn't about playing well. It's about banking the wins to set the season up. Eagles will play finals so it's no easy win. In saying that, a win probably masked some pretty considerable structural and game plan issues.

1). If we persist on playing the 2 KPD set-up (which I agree with), then Wood & Crozier must simply play. Williams, Crozier & Wood is a lethal medium defender combo and will support Keath & Gardiner massively. They can play tall and small, and provide run at the same time. Scott & either Duryea/Dale will make way. Duryea & Dale have both been great, so given Crozier will be out another month then we can reassess then in regards to who will make way.
2). Our kick ins have been awful. You watch WCE with Hurn and they manage to get the ball to the edge of the square on centre wing in a very dangerous position. We seem to let Caleb kick in and try to pick off a shorter target. When he decides to go long, it's typically to the HFF flank and results in stoppage unless Naughton clunks a contested marks. Williams & Dale should kick in 80% of the time. Let them run 20m and kick 50m and it becomes a 90m play rather than the 60-70m it is with Daniel. He doesn't have the leg speed or kicking depth to make that happen.
3). For some reason we don't have at least one forward waiting out the back for a fast play. We tend to push everyone really high, and then when get on the fast break it becomes a foot race back towards goal. The new rules mean we need to have someone deep as an option. It happened too many times and prevents us from scoring easy goals. We saw Bont get one in the last minute to finish the game off, and that was only due to the fact the the WCE defenders were pushing up in an attempt to win the game.
 
Sentinel said:
Crowd confirmed to be 21,391.

Certainly felt bigger then that.
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I don't think we should put any stock into the crowd numbers. Every game is significantly down across the board. The ticketing situation is easily the major factor in this. It's just not comparable to previous years.
 
the dog's kennel said:
Wasn't just Caleb. I don't know if we were panicking or getting tired - but in that third quarter we seemed to really lose the handle on our rapid passing. Players were trying to dispose the ball a split second too early, or going for no-look passes, or trying to dispose when contorted in weird positions. I'm sure this was not actually the case - but it looked like lairising, like we thought we were the Harlem Globetrotters or buying our own hype - a little like we played for a while back in 2017. And the results were horrific. What was probably actually the case was we were getting rattled by the Eagles increasing the pressure and rolling over us a bit. But whatever the cause was, we lost composure and kept biting off more than we could chew in our disposal. Caleb obviously had a few notable examples cause of his position. But the problem was all over the field. pretty much everyone except for Libba lost their head in that quarter. I was just impressed that we came out after the break a completely different team. Mature teams do that.
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This is a good observation and it needs to be considered alongside Mofra's point last week that we are one of the few sides that use handball (and perhaps by extension the short kicking game) to great effect, in contrast to some other clubs that are forced into hurried kicks forward, often up-and-unders with no chance to pick out a target.

When it works we look sublime and that's most of the time. When it falls apart under intense pressure or perhaps loss of concentration we look to be lairising. As we saw yesterday the test is whether we can sustain this clinical use of handball against the very best sides. It's looking to me like West Coast is right up there with the best this year so the signs from yesterday are good.

On Caleb, we have to accept that he will miss his targets once in a while and that will often cost a goal when it happens. The risk reward balance is still very much in our favour and I wouldn't want him changing his game because of the odd error that looks like a howler when the opposition walk it in for a goal. There were similar criticisms about 12 months ago but he still went on to win an AA jumper.

I expect opposition sides like the Eagles will continue to put pressure on Daniel because he is such a weapon in our transitions. That's to be expected. I still expect him to succeed because his agility, quick decision making and execution of the short game are elite. He'd be very hard to tag out of the game.
 
perro_loco said:
Gardner is improving by the week. He was very useful today. I predict he will become a Brian Lake type of player in a couple of seasons. I also read the article by Malthouse. I thought it was a mishmash, poorly written and incoherent.
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Hahaha 😂😂😂 that’s a massive call, if that’s the case I think Schache will become a Jonathan Brown type of player in a few seasons!!!

Gardner is and always will be an average player and tonight was a prime example of it. People in here are wishful thinking other wise.
I thought Malthouses article was spot on and realistically where our list is at.
 

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Dale4captain said:
I’m really just unsure what you’re trying to imply you want bevo to do. Come up with some wild revolutionary plan to negate Nic Nat? If he managed that, quickly copywrite it because 16 other teams will want the blue print.

you mentioned Kelly on the outside getting a few, yeah he sure did. But so did Bont and who was more damaging?

We’ve just got to limit the bleed in there with a guy like Nic. He’s a freak. It happens, freaks have unstoppable games.
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We won the clearances so something was going right. Don't see how anyone could have stopped him, we got smashed in the hitouts but still contested better than Timmy by himself last year and he was handy in the forward line.
 
Fossie 32 said:
We won the clearances so something was going right. Don't see how anyone could have stopped him, we got smashed in the hitouts but still contested better than Timmy by himself last year and he was handy in the forward line.
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I was at the game and noticed WC changed tac in the second half. At the stoppages/centre bounce their mids were pushing our mids in to the contest and then Nic Nat was hitting the tap clear out in to space where they were able to get a clearer run at the ball. They were actually doing that for a while before our mids did anything about it.
I think it was down to our mids possibly being a little gassed.
You’re right though, it can be tough negating an on fire Nic Nat. But, as you say, our mids managed to get on top for most of the game regardless.
 
Golden_6 said:
I don't think we should put any stock into the crowd numbers. Every game is significantly down across the board. The ticketing situation is easily the major factor in this. It's just not comparable to previous years.
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People have lost income since covid lockdowns don't forget.....
 
Bro_Pro said:
Hahaha 😂😂😂 that’s a massive call, if that’s the case I think Schache will become a Jonathan Brown type of player in a few seasons!!!

Gardner is and always will be an average player and tonight was a prime example of it. People in here are wishful thinking other wise.
I thought Malthouses article was spot on and realistically where our list is at.
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So what did he do in that game that was a "prime example" of why he's never going to be any better than he currently is?
Nobody is going around saying he's an elite key back. He's played 14 games. But the things he lacks in are things that are able to be worked on.
 
Golden_6 said:
I don't think we should put any stock into the crowd numbers. Every game is significantly down across the board. The ticketing situation is easily the major factor in this. It's just not comparable to previous years.
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Is it more possible to be a "walk up" to games under the current ticketing situation? Not sure, but there would be some who might otherwise have decided on the day to head to the game but hadn't pre-booked a ticket and put it in the "too hard" category instead.
 
GetDimmaBack said:
Yep. Me neither. 😕

...and last week's replay cut out half way through the last quarter.

Getting a bit tired of it now. Might be time for kayo.
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Mine cut out with 1.10 left in the game!
Lucky I knew the result, something might have got damaged.
But it's shocking how often this happens if you forget to add the 20 mins record time.
How can a "sports" channel be so irresponsible? (rhetorical question)
 
I get WHY crowd numbers are down (number of reasons). But scanning a QR code and booking online isn't really that hard.

I guess that's because I know how to use a computer.
 
1961grandfinal said:
Treloar is an absolute steal. Sees the game unfold and opposition cannot lay a hand on him, when he has half a step he is away. So classy and made to wait before getting a chance on ball. In q4, worked so well on the city side of the circle and teamed up with others to get the ball forward.
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Yeah he was really good I thought, very happy to have him in our side
 
perro_loco said:
I think he had a solid game with 20 disposals. looks like he has become tougher. he is building slowly. great prospect imo. frustrates me at times, but the guy is good. remember this was a tough game. tougher than last week, wc are a top six side at least imo.
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the dog's kennel said:
Fair enough, BRWB. But I completely disagree about Lipinski. I think he is right on the edge of being a gun. I also think he is greatly under-rated in traffic. If we didn't have 50 players capable of centre square hijinks, I'd be advocating getting him in there, and I bet he'd thrive. He didn't have a great game today that is true. But he is one of those players who makes 20 possessions sing. I hope he gets every opportunity this year, and if he does, I am betting that he will be generally considered by the end of the year to be one of our midfield weapons.

What I do agree with is how critical nailing set shots on goal is. If we had simply nailed every set shot that was easier than the shots Kennedy was nailing we would have put this game away before halftime. That is the simple reason that we don't bury teams. One wonders how many years we need to kick poorly before we make it a priority in drafting/training and fix it up. It's going on 10 years we've been like this!
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Lipi's DE was 85% so in the top few in the side [6th :p] and though the 50 and resultant goal were bad, there were 6 others whose turnovers cost goals. Not a terrible game.
 
Al dente said:
Nic Nat was absolutely immense, those long wide taps to advantage, over and over again, wow, lucky for us Bont was just as good
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Felt sorry for Martin, seemed like a lot of the centre bounces ended up right on his head so he had to stand and wait while NicNat had a clean run and jump. Hard enough competing against him when the ball is bounced straight. Impossible when it's on your head.
 
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