Autopsy Round 2, 2021: Hawthorn defeated by Richmond

[robiecampbellbrown]

No idea, but nothing will beat the time Hawthorn rolled into the new season to face the other 7 finalists from the previous year end on end, while the Swans were given the fledgling Suns and GWS outfits within the month.

Richmond always seems to play sides that finished below them the previous year.

 

[SammyC]

Suggestions of Howe or Phillips going out are nonsense. Howe was very good and philips serviceable for the 2nd week in a row. Plenty of errors made under richmond pressure all round...

lewis has to play but it will be at the expense of kosi or ceglar. Either would be stiff. I’d like to persist with kosi and go with one ruck but suspect it will go the other way.

scrimshaw for day.

chad for Ollie if fit.

maybe downie for Ollie if Chad doesn’t get up. Not like for like but Burgoyne could play fwd.

 

[HairyO]

Suggestions of Howe or Phillips going out are nonsense. Howe was very good and philips serviceable for the 2nd week in a row. Plenty of errors made under richmond pressure all round...

lewis has to play but it will be at the expense of kosi or ceglar. Either would be stiff. I’d like to persist with kosi and go with one ruck but suspect it will go the other way.

scrimshaw for day.

chad for Ollie if fit.

maybe downie for Ollie if Chad doesn’t get up. Not like for like but Burgoyne could play fwd.

Kosi had an okay game and kicked his 1st goal. Not sure you then dump him...

Can Lewis TOB and McEvoy handle the ruck without Ceglar ?

 

[Lickmesocks]

Was O’Meara slow today? He seemed to be moving in treacle.

Nope that’s his speed. His knee is managed week to week to get up for games.

We still have some people hoping for Jaeger in his first two seasons.

His knee injury was so bad some people said he would never play again.

Just accept who we have. We have a big bodied mid that can take some punishment for us and dish it off usually by hand now.

We don’t have Chris Judd bursting away from packs so let’s move on.

 

[cogs2hawks]

An example of a premiership side v a bottom 4 side was Port v Dons, not yesterday.

 

[TylerDurden]

Kosi had an okay game and kicked his 1st goal. Not sure you then dump him...

Can Lewis TOB and McEvoy handle the ruck without Ceglar ?

Why not? Ceglar got destroyed by Stanley last year anyway.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Why not? Ceglar got destroyed by Stanley last year anyway.

for some disturbing reason, so did O'Brien and OMac

the world has gone very, very dark if Rhys Stanley has become a good ruckman

 

[Mrzohs]

Re midfield
Not much between the two clubs imo.
Clearences were on par, possession numbers were probably better and chased as much as the opposition, just got done by a ready made for a premiership team.
These fumbles and missed handballs are going to happen every week it's just that the tigers are brutal in making you pay more than any other team.
Worth remembering, if not for dusty handing off two gimmies to Riewoldt, they don't even trouble the scorers in the second half. Defensively we were great, it's unfortunate that we decided to match them second QTR onwards. Taking the foot off the pedal is a load of sh*t , it wasn't like they were 8+ goals in front. I'm dying to see how we go next week tbh, feel a lot more confident against any other team other than tigers and a couple of others at this stage.

5.2 - 5.4 over the 2nd and 3rd quarter highlights this. There was a period in the 3rd quarter we had sustained presurre on them. 17 points down Tob,Howe made a meal off a goal opportunity to make it 11. The Tigs went up and made us pay, back out to 23 points.

It was story of the day for us in open play. A couple of classy players to return should help out. Around round 10 we will have a fair idea for a assessment.

 

[The hands of stone]

Our forward line is probably bottom 4 in the comp also, it's not a great mix is it ?

Gunston back in improves it hugely , we also have Wingard coming back too .
Its not horrible it just lacks some class and direction without those guys in.

 

[Lotus]

Was it 2015 when we beat Saints by 145 points? I was expecting that kind of scoreline against contender teams especially reigning premier.

Chain of handball, goal kicking, that can be trained. But effort and fighting spirit you can't. I'm happy that the team can made a progress in between quarter time. Hence I'm not really disappointed with the loss yesterday. Hopefully the boys can continue the progression trajectory and play better against Cats next week.

 

[Lickmesocks]

Gunston back in improves it hugely , we also have Wingard coming back too .
Its not horrible it just lacks some class and direction without those guys in.

Gunston and Wingard are crucial to us moving forward and making others better with our current list.

 

[Gaston]

This is probably the best and most honest post I have read. Forget that Ceglar takes a few marks around the ground occasionally. He needs to compete in the middle first and foremost and unfortunately what we have witnessed last season and this season opposition rucks are taking the pi55 and giving there side first crack whenever he is in the middle. He is trying to ruck like Monkhorst did when he was 30 by staying on the ground and trying to finesse when other rucks are jumping aggressively into him and knocking it to advantage. This needs to be addressed ASAP.

Ceglar watches the man and not the ball.
Unlike Monkey or Darcy (from the past) he hasn't the ability to still win the hitout or contest
whilst taking this approach.

If we're not going to pull punches, he just doesn't have the consistency or footy smarts to
be relying on his output.

With he and TOB possibly in the last year of their contract, coaching staff need to
flip the magnets and try something different before final decisions are made on their careers.

 

[Mojo]

Not too shabby. I think with some consistency there is enough to be hopeful of a decent year.

CJ is getting too much love. Had a fair bit and showed some brilliant moments but he directly cost us 4 goals at critical times. I said before that a few clangers are fine with what he offers offensively but he killed us in the first half and we didn’t recover. Squashed any momentum at critical stages.

1 player to get a pump up and that’s Brockman. Apart from natural progression the only thing he needs to fast track is some mongrel. If this kid got mad he would be lethal.

Our midfield are plodders. Mitchell, Jags and Shiels looked completely off the pace. I don’t know how this dynamic remains. Worps didn’t have the best game but he needs to be let off the leash as the 1st guy at the ball.

There has to be a better way to get some speed through the middle otherwise it will be a very long year watching the boys chase arse.

Impey is going to be immense if he can continue to build.

Our midfield is the worry, isn't it?

We really lack the elite specimens that a lot of teams have, and most are now north of 25.

 

[Brishawk]

Yeah maybe it's a weird one isn't it ? 2 elite forwards but the rest of the forwards probably wouldn't be best 22 at most other clubs.

Wingard (when forward), Gunston, Breust, brockman and at least one good kpf and we would be rolling. The kpf problem for us takes our smaller forwards out of the game. Just got to hope Lewis can come in and give us someone to play around.

 

[Coathanger]

What is with the Ceglar haters? Christ there were 10 worse players than him yesterday,give it a rest.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Just wondering if anyone caught the exchange between CJ and the umpire in the 4th?
Umpire called stand, so CJ stops. Umpire comes over telling him where the mark is and to move. CJ refuses because if he moves it'll be 50...

 

[OnTheRocks]

3rd quarter we had sustained presurre on them. 17 points down Tob,Howe made a meal off a goal opportunity to make it 11

Yeah, nah that was all TOBs making. When push came to shove he fell over and was exposed and exploited.

 

[burner1]

We really lacked a contesting marking target up forward to keep the intercept defenders honest and bring ball to ground. We also need to be better with our entries as were too predictable which gets chopped up by a good zone defence.

Lewis is pretty important for our forward line against the better defences as hard for Breust etc when ball doesn’t hit the ground. But also as his presence sucks defenders to him and frees up other forwards. Just hope we see more of the 2019 version of Lewis.

Kosi seems to have some football smarts and a good work ethic - was always going to struggle against an elite defence in his 2nd game. Need to keep investing time in him and hopefully Jeka later in the season.

 

[rei154]

You think they were in 2nd gear?

Not particularly- but some posters have suggested that they were so I'm trying to head off that argument before it comes out. I think sides do everything they can to win, and they would have been no different yesterday

 

[kirbatron]

We need some more top end drafts but there is a bit to work with

 

[Wingnut19]

Wingard, Cousins, Downie on a wing. Move Day and Impey into the middle (with CJ, Scrimshaw and Greaves off half back). Work more on getting the Mitchell Worpel combo to gel. Problem isn't so much the inside, its the outside that is hurting us and ultimately that's where our free agent dollars will need to go.

what do we do with JOM then? its a big problem.

 

[KermitJagger]

Yeah, nah that was all TOBs making. When push came to shove he fell over and was exposed and exploited.

I'm a Timmy defender most of the time, there's very little defending I can do of him based on the weekend. Not only did he not threaten much at all he always seemed to take out another Hawk when he hit the deck.

Lewis is fit and firing, I think he should be replacing O'Brien based on that performance. Nash haters look away because I think he's a better option than Hanrahan based on the practice match both last week and this week. Appeared to be vital to our F50 fortunes.

 

[KermitJagger]

If you look at the positive sides of this, I don't think we had a player on the field worse than Jake Aarts yesterday.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I'm a Timmy defender most of the time, there's very little defending I can do of him based on the weekend. Not only did he not threaten much at all he always seemed to take out another Hawk when he hit the deck.

Lewis is fit and firing, I think he should be replacing O'Brien based on that performance. Nash haters look away because I think he's a better option than Hanrahan based on the practice match both last week and this week. Appeared to be vital to our F50 fortunes.

Affirmative!
Sadly, Timmy's game is -EV

 

[JoeHawk]

What is with the Ceglar haters? Christ there were 10 worse players than him yesterday,give it a rest.

Spot on. Been the team scapegoat for the last year or so. I don’t get it either.