Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[eth-dog]

I doubt Cahill will get cut. Probably only a 1 year deal but not cut

 

[Towno78]

BZT fairly un-cut-able at the moment given our lack of defensive height. We clearly can’t rely on Hurley and Stewart.

Gleeson yes. I didn’t really include the rookie list, figure most will be turned over.

Lol the bloke who can't get a game when the rest of the players in his position are either injured or in their first year, is uncuttable?
He's a lock.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Lol the bloke who can't get a game when the rest of the players in his position are either injured or in their first year, is uncuttable?
He's a lock.

Quite possibly. But I think you’re possibly underestimating how hard it is to get out of the AFL when you’re 195cm+

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Lol the bloke who can't get a game when the rest of the players in his position are either injured or in their first year, is uncuttable?
He's a lock.

He’s coming back from injury too.

 

[fairbump_playon]

Gone this year

Ambrose, Cahill, Cutler, Guelfi, Phillips, Zaharakis.

Hooker and Johnson possibly

I look forward to changing this 35 times before the year is out

They will keep Guelfi I reckon

Cahill must have a lot of support at selection to get the looks he has. He certainly hasn’t banged the door down with performance or natural athletic profile. I can only imagine they see something in him that I can’t.

 

[citizen-erased]

Why Langford? I like him but not sure he's shown enough to be a lock. Having said that I'd love to see him and Laverde play really well this season.

Like him on a wing/HF.
We dont have many of them and he had a decent 2020

 

[11kgm]

think Mozzie is gone as well think Johnson will go past him

 

[eth-dog]

think Mozzie is gone as well think Johnson will go past him

Johnson hasn't even played a VFL game yet dude...

 

[blitzer]

think Mozzie is gone as well think Johnson will go past him

I agree Mozzie won't make it because having seen the shape that Mozzie was in a few months back I think there are serious questions on his professionalism. Not to mention he's finished both his seasons with very significant injuries and obviously will miss this entire year.

Doing an ACL early in your career is not a good precursor to success even for the fittest and most determined blokes. I also think it was telling that we only gave him a 1 year extension when we knew he would be out this entire year. Even the club wanted to keep the torch on him and keep their options open.

FWIW I thought the actual games he played at AFL level were very promising and he has real talent but he's not the first or last talented kid that doesn't make it because of injuries or a lack of application.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I agree Mozzie won't make it because having seen the shape that Mozzie was in a few months back I think there are serious questions on his professionalism. Not to mention he's finished both his seasons with very significant injuries and obviously will miss this entire year.

Doing an ACL early in your career is not a good precursor to success even for the fittest and most determined blokes. I also think it was telling that we only gave him a 1 year extension when we knew he would be out this entire year. Even the club wanted to keep the torch on him and keep their options open.

FWIW I thought the actual games he played at AFL level were very promising and he has real talent but he's not the first or last talented kid that doesn't make it because of injuries or a lack of application.

Yeah you see some blokes with ACL injuries and they use it as an opportunity to hit the bike and the weights and come back in ripping condition.

Who knows exactly what the future holds for Moz but getting fat during rehab isn't a great sign

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Well it seems to have worked out alright. It’s nice not to wonder if Daniher, Fantasia, Stewart will ever get on the park.

Stringer - Jones - Snelling
Tippa - Hooker - Waterman

Smith and Perkins offered pretty good value today too.

Hooker is a super-important beast

Stringer can do things few in the league can do, and most importantly looks fit

Tippa and Snelling offer great pressure

Just need to get games into Jones

Waterman had a stack of score involvements today. He’s an interesting one.

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Best thing about Jones and Waterman is their understanding of how to work the position to their teammates' advantage, the work rate on both of them today was exceptional and even though they only kicked four between them, they definitely helped create a lot more. The new rules have definitely helped the ball movement inside 50, but having forwards that will lead up the ground and present to the midfield time and time again is crucial to team success. Hooker and Stringer wouldn't have kicked half the goals they did without the efforts of these two.

 

[Lore]

Best thing about Jones and Waterman is their understanding of how to work the position to their teammates' advantage, the work rate on both of them today was exceptional and even though they only kicked four between them, they definitely helped create a lot more. The new rules have definitely helped the ball movement inside 50, but having forwards that will lead up the ground and present to the midfield time and time again is crucial to team success. Hooker and Stringer wouldn't have kicked half the goals they did without the efforts of these two.

Hahah it's nice to think that a pair of blokes who combine for 4 games AFL experience 'ONLY' kicked 4 goals between them... so much more potential there too.

 

[Old Stuckup]

I reckon our current setup is probably the best forward line we’ve put out since 2017.

 

[Call Me Cake]

You guys are underestimating Cox's influence on the forward line.

 

[Megabattimus]

It's amazing what our forward line can do when there isn't two big guys in the 50 running into each other.

Hopefully we never have to play Wright and Hooker in the forward 50 at the same time ever again.

 

[ghostdog]

Well it seems to have worked out alright. It’s nice not to wonder if Daniher, Fantasia, Stewart will ever get on the park.

Stringer - Jones - Snelling
Tippa - Hooker - Waterman

Smith and Perkins offered pretty good value today too.

Hooker is a super-important beast

Stringer can do things few in the league can do, and most importantly looks fit

Tippa and Snelling offer great pressure

Just need to get games into Jones

Waterman had a stack of score involvements today. He’s an interesting one.

Eyre is the player we need to get games into to accelerate, as good as we looked yesterday. I think we also need to draft another key forward for depth. Wright plods a bit and I don't think a Jones Wright combo is the answer.

 

[Megabattimus]

Eyre is the player we need to get games into to accelerate, as good as we looked yesterday. I think we also need to draft another key forward for depth. Wright plods a bit and I don't think a Jones Wright combo is the answer.

Hopefully Baldwin can get fit so we can see what he's got. Eyre shouldn't be too far off a debut based on how he's going in the VFL. Maybe bring him in whenever Jones needs a rest?

 

[ghostdog]

Hopefully Baldwin can get fit so we can see what he's got. Eyre shouldn't be too far off a debut based on how he's going in the VFL. Maybe bring him in whenever Jones needs a rest?

Ah. Forgot about Baldwin. Maybe don't need another one if he gets his body right.

 

[The Devils Advocate]

would keep Parish over McGrath and Shiel

I'm actually the same as this.

Also, an interesting thing I've noticed is that Parish, Merrett, McGrath and Perkins all have lightning fast hands and are one touch players. Could this actually be a recruitment strategy? It was one of Orazio's things as well.

 

[Yoda_]

Interesting comments from FoxFooty over the weekends that suggests midfielders that can’t play elsewhere may very well be rendered useless


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[Zach Package]

It's a problem that has multiple layers.

The starting point is recruitment. The prime example for me is selecting McGrath to turn him in to Taranto. One is a specialist inside pig with an elite engine the other was primarily a half back/defender who could play in the middle with amazing athleticism. 5 years in, Taranto has already been a prime mover in a midfield that played in a GF - Coniglio and Ward missed significant parts of 2019. Taranto was second only to Kelly among the mids for average disposals that year and he played all 26 games - if that means one thing it means he was at the top of the midfield rotation (as a third year player).

Dodoro is Scott Clayton, forever chasing the flashier player at the expense of the meat and potatoes simplicity that most decent midfields are built on.

Second major problem is "accepting we have a problem". There is virtually no prospect that Dodoro will give up on a combination of Parish, Merrett, McGrath, Caldwell and Shiel and he appears to have almost complete control in this regard. If that's the case, where does the midfield time come from? Adding 3 midfielders to the team means moving on 2 of these players. That leaves us with a core of 5 to which we'd want to add Perkins. Midfields do not really go deeper than that in any meaningful sense - the depth is really a matter for the balance of a healthy list. The rest of the rotations should be a Tippa or a Stringer for a few minutes to try to steal or break the ball out of the middle.

It's scary that we get 2 injuries to midfielders and the remaining genuine midfield prospect on the list is a guy whose kicking is so bad we're playing him as a pressure forward (i.e. Clarke). That gets us to the boring old argument of the complete lack of respect paid to the midfield in recruiting, list management and day to day coaching (which has churned through all the options despite the consistent incompetence of our midfield and without really ever looking at the alternatives).

Seriously, how the fu** did we take Hibberd, a 192cm, 95kg inside midfielder who would probably be 6:25ish over 2km, play him on ball for 2 of his 20 quarters and then delist him to carry on with, and I don't take any pleasure in saying this, a nothing romance story like Lachlan Johnson? Ned Cahill, a slow small forward who at a small 178cm probably looks best suited to a midfield role (it sure as hell doesn't look like it will be half back)?

Our first choice midfield, like I said somewhere else comprises 2 x AAs (the oldest of which is 28), 1 x 100 game 6th year pick 5 and 1 x 80 game 5th year pick 1 and it has been embarrassed for the last 20 games.

Not sure how I missed this but I do agree with the primary sentiment that we haven’t acknowledged that there is a balance issue that needs rectifying.

I’m still disappointed in the Hibberd thing but I don’t see it as related to anything other than the club’s crook view that he wasn’t good enough, that the role is not important enough or a mixture of the two. He could have had Gleeson’s spot on the rookie list without it impacting Johnson (who was picked not only because we wanted him, but so we could immediately place him on the inactive list and take another selection, which I actually thought was very clever) and Cahill who was picked because Fantasia was doing the hokey pokey. Both need to get reps in as small forwards before we can make any kind of judgement.

I’m probably in the minority in not thinking we need to trade out someone established because the mix is so toxic, it’s just missing a bruiser or two.

In the same way that we’ve seemingly gone tall at every available opportunity of late we now need to go really heavy on mids and hopefully nail a couple, not something I think Dodoro is capable of doing.

 

[Yoda_]

Not sure how I missed this but I do agree with the primary sentiment that we haven’t acknowledged that there is a balance issue that needs rectifying.

I’m still disappointed in the Hibberd thing but I don’t see it as related to anything other than the club’s crook view that he wasn’t good enough, he could have had Gleeson’s spot on the rookie list without it impacting Johnson (who was picked not only because we wanted him, but so we could immediately place him on the inactive list and take another selection, which I actually thought was very clever) and Cahill who was picked because Fantasia was doing the hokey pokey. Both need to get reps in as small forwards before we can make any kind of judgement.

I’m probably in the minority in not thinking we need to trade out someone established because the mix is so toxic, it’s just missing a bruiser or two.

In the same way that we’ve seemingly gone tall at every available opportunity of late we now need to go really heavy on mids and hopefully nail a couple, not something I think Dodoro is capable of doing.

What bothers me is one of the coaches favourites needs to not be a starter and replaced by a point of difference for us to improve imho.

Imagine the outrage of McGrath was moved back permanently despite having a seamless transition into the midfield group? Darcy Parish playing limited midfield minutes despite once again showing his wares on the weekend? Imagine spending two firsts (on Dylan Shiel) and him seemingly not being good enough and becoming a role player?

I was one of the first who suggested it and my sentiments are slowly being echoed but I’d cut my losses with Shiel. We get a top 20 pick for him you take it and run.

As for the list make up like you said, it’s as much about the willingness of the coaches to play players in there preferred positions as it is about the people bringing in those said players. No wonder we are and have been a basket case. If you were new to our list management you’d almost think those two (coaches & list management) groups weren’t working together .


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[ghostdog]

Not sure how I missed this but I do agree with the primary sentiment that we haven’t acknowledged that there is a balance issue that needs rectifying.

I’m still disappointed in the Hibberd thing but I don’t see it as related to anything other than the club’s crook view that he wasn’t good enough, he could have had Gleeson’s spot on the rookie list without it impacting Johnson (who was picked not only because we wanted him, but so we could immediately place him on the inactive list and take another selection, which I actually thought was very clever) and Cahill who was picked because Fantasia was doing the hokey pokey. Both need to get reps in as small forwards before we can make any kind of judgement.

I’m probably in the minority in not thinking we need to trade out someone established because the mix is so toxic, it’s just missing a bruiser or two.

In the same way that we’ve seemingly gone tall at every available opportunity of late we now need to go really heavy on mids and hopefully nail a couple, not something I think Dodoro is capable of doing.

Our treatment of Hibberd was amateur hour. We're about to take on Kennedy and Parker. Hibberd available could have meant Stringer can stay in the f50.

 

[Zach Package]

What bothers me is one of the coaches favourites needs to not be a starter and replaced by a point of difference for us to improve imho.

Imagine the outrage of McGrath was moved back permanently despite having a seamless transition into the midfield group? Darcy Parish playing limited midfield minutes despite once again showing his wares on the weekend? Imagine spending two firsts (on Dylan Shiel) and him seemingly not being good enough and becoming a role player?

I was one of the first who suggested it and my sentiments are slowly being echoed but I’d cut my losses with Shiel. We get a top 20 pick for him you take it and run.

As for the list make up like you said, it’s as much about the willingness of the coaches to play players in there preferred positions as it is about the people bringing in those said players. No wonder we are and have been a basket case. If you were new to our list management you’d almost think those two (coaches & list management) groups weren’t working together .


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I mean, given turnover of coaches and plans and players you’d struggle to know what to do if you’re the list management team to be honest.

The fact that we’re even discussing trading Shiel is mind boggling to me, particularly for ‘we can’t squeeze him in’ reasons given basically everyone plays 8 or 9 or 10 midfielders at once these days. Probably an indication that we don’t really have our heads around what it takes to be really competitive.

I’d also imagine Shiel would relish the new rules, the space and having less opposition attention and someone with his skill set is going to prove very important and decidedly not something you’d give away for peanuts in a drunken fit of stupidity.