Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Hawks lose to Cats, Easter Monday

[Argy]

The kick served no purpose... if the kick reached it's destination we would have still been kicking it to a packed forward 50.

There's a difference between execution errors and just brain fart ideas.

Howe has been consistent on the later

Clarko disagrees...

Don’t blame Howe - The Age, 4/6/2021

todayspaper.smedia.com.au

Don’t blame Howe
Clarko defends Hawk in error-hit display

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson said Daniel Howe was “following instructions” when he made two crucial errors in yesterday’s five-point loss to Geelong and suggested that these blunders were merely “two of 100’’ that the Hawks made.


Clarkson said that Howe, who turned the ball over in what led to the last goal kicked by the Cats (to Jordan Clark), would be “feeling low”, but that the Hawks had to take chances to get themselves into the game, as they came from behind in the final quarter.


Howe subsequently made an error with a failed switch of play when Hawthorn were pressing for the match-winning goal, only to have the ball turned over.


“They were switch opportunities,” said Clarkson. “To give ourselves a chance to get back into the game, we had to take our chances.


“He didn’t execute as well as he’d like, but he was following instructions in terms of trying to generate some open space ... In endeavour to do that, he made two errors. But they were ... two errors of 100 that we made over the course of the day. Mistakes happen in games of footy. We’ll wrap our arms around him. He’ll feel pretty low and feel like he contributed to the loss. But as I said, there were probably 100 other incidents in the course of the game.”

 

[Millsie69]

Clarko disagrees...

Don’t blame Howe - The Age, 4/6/2021

todayspaper.smedia.com.au

Don’t blame Howe
Clarko defends Hawk in error-hit display

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson said Daniel Howe was “following instructions” when he made two crucial errors in yesterday’s five-point loss to Geelong and suggested that these blunders were merely “two of 100’’ that the Hawks made.


Clarkson said that Howe, who turned the ball over in what led to the last goal kicked by the Cats (to Jordan Clark), would be “feeling low”, but that the Hawks had to take chances to get themselves into the game, as they came from behind in the final quarter.


Howe subsequently made an error with a failed switch of play when Hawthorn were pressing for the match-winning goal, only to have the ball turned over.


“They were switch opportunities,” said Clarkson. “To give ourselves a chance to get back into the game, we had to take our chances.


“He didn’t execute as well as he’d like, but he was following instructions in terms of trying to generate some open space ... In endeavour to do that, he made two errors. But they were ... two errors of 100 that we made over the course of the day. Mistakes happen in games of footy. We’ll wrap our arms around him. He’ll feel pretty low and feel like he contributed to the loss. But as I said, there were probably 100 other incidents in the course of the game.”

Well I mean...what else is he going to say?? lol "Howe cost us the game with his f*ck up" ?

 

[H00t]

It is not the instruction. That is a fallacy we do not train for it. We spent all of Friday training to transition quickly and kick to players on the lead. Its easy to do at training. In game the opposition just do not allow you the space. which means the player kicking it has to have the courage to switch the play to get to the fat side and or the forward player needs to instinctively lead. We just couldn't get any switches happening as our kicks ended up leading to the player going back on the mark slipping over or turning it over. We lost momentum on the switch and very rarely did our players come up at the ball. There is no coach edict to not lead up at the ball. We have trained a different way all pre season long

I understand that what we want to do is transition the ball quickly out of the back half into a leading forward. Ideally through a switch.

Problem is we don’t really have the players to do it. There’s no speed and good kicking skills. We really on Howe, Morrison and Phillips as our wings. With Howe often the switch target. Means we will never get it to work.

Personally I think it’s a great plan A. Problem is we need a plan B and C. Teams just block the switch against us. And we are stuckcan’t move the ball forward. That’s what’s most frustrating to me and probably a lot on here.

We need to create space. And that means movement ahead of the ball and overlap run from behind. We don’t really do either apart from the odd CJ or Impey run. When players provide options defences have to cover. We don’t do this. Defences know we will go the long high ball and set up for it. We don’t challenge them to think or set up differently.

As soon as a defence sets up and we can’t switch, we go the high ball. So the opposition puts players in the hole and we keep kicking to them. If we instructed forwards to lead and looked to honour them we’d draw defenders out and make the long high ball more dangerous.

I also know that this might lead to a few more goals kicked against us but at least we will kick more goals. Trying to win the game is better than trying to not lose it. I personally believe it would help player development. Letting them attack and take the game on. Plus we keep our players light so why not play and agile game rather than long to a pack where we lose the contested situation.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I understand that what we want to do is transition the ball quickly out of the back half into a leading forward. Ideally through a switch.

Problem is we don’t really have the players to do it. There’s no speed and good kicking skills. We really on Howe, Morrison and Phillips as our wings. With Howe often the switch target. Means we will never get it to work.

Personally I think it’s a great plan A. Problem is we need a plan B and C. Teams just block the switch against us. And we are stuckcan’t move the ball forward. That’s what’s most frustrating to me and probably a lot on here.

We need to create space. And that means movement ahead of the ball and overlap run from behind. We don’t really do either apart from the odd CJ or Impey run. When players provide options defences have to cover. We don’t do this. Defences know we will go the long high ball and set up for it. We don’t challenge them to think or set up differently.

As soon as a defence sets up and we can’t switch, we go the high ball. So the opposition puts players in the hole and we keep kicking to them. If we instructed forwards to lead and looked to honour them we’d draw defenders out and make the long high ball more dangerous.

I also know that this might lead to a few more goals kicked against us but at least we will kick more goals. Trying to win the game is better than trying to not lose it. I personally believe it would help player development. Letting them attack and take the game on. Plus we keep our players light so why not play and agile game rather than long to a pack where we lose the contested situation.

Mate it takes time to perfect a game plan it doesn't happen in one or two seasons it takes time and team synergy. Our team at the moment is in a state of flux. We will keep practicing to get better its the only way forward, hard work as we add more players that will help us to our next premiership

Edit: we are much better at executing it this year than last. So we are heading in the right direction

 

[MadDawg]

Clarko disagrees...

Don’t blame Howe - The Age, 4/6/2021

todayspaper.smedia.com.au

Don’t blame Howe
Clarko defends Hawk in error-hit display

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson said Daniel Howe was “following instructions” when he made two crucial errors in yesterday’s five-point loss to Geelong and suggested that these blunders were merely “two of 100’’ that the Hawks made.


Clarkson said that Howe, who turned the ball over in what led to the last goal kicked by the Cats (to Jordan Clark), would be “feeling low”, but that the Hawks had to take chances to get themselves into the game, as they came from behind in the final quarter.


Howe subsequently made an error with a failed switch of play when Hawthorn were pressing for the match-winning goal, only to have the ball turned over.


“They were switch opportunities,” said Clarkson. “To give ourselves a chance to get back into the game, we had to take our chances.


“He didn’t execute as well as he’d like, but he was following instructions in terms of trying to generate some open space ... In endeavour to do that, he made two errors. But they were ... two errors of 100 that we made over the course of the day. Mistakes happen in games of footy. We’ll wrap our arms around him. He’ll feel pretty low and feel like he contributed to the loss. But as I said, there were probably 100 other incidents in the course of the game.”

Missed opportunity with the title, should have been:

Don't blame Dan's Howe-lers

For the first kick, it was short but Burgoyne could have made a marking contest and at least created a stoppage - but he decided to hold back as if the ball was going to go over the Geelong player (Clark). Burgoyne's reaction afterwards showed he knew it too.

For the second kick, no excuse for that for an AFL player.

 

[Roby]

Well I mean...what else is he going to say?? lol "Howe cost us the game with his f*ck up" ?

And why would he say or think that?

 

[grumbleguts]

A lot of people seem pretty negative on Lewis. He took a quarter or two to warm into game but after that Geelong seemed to get a lot less intercept marks, he crashed some packs or at least brought defenders to him - they had to respect his size and danger when one out (which is the opposite of richmond defenders vs TOB last week). By no means did he have a dominant game, but had a very good last quarter and signs that if he stays fit could be very handy up forward as a key target.

I am not sure what people watched, but Lewis' pressure in the first half was immense in keeping it in our half. He didn't get many touches but converted to a small defensive forward when the tall forward act wasn't bringing in any biscuits.

 

[grumbleguts]

Missed opportunity with the title, should have been:

Don't blame Dan's Howe-lers

For the first kick, it was short but Burgoyne could have made a marking contest and at least created a stoppage - but he decided to hold back as if the ball was going to go over the Geelong player (Clark). Burgoyne's reaction afterwards showed he knew it too.

For the second kick, no excuse for that for an AFL player.

Bloody hell, it isn't his kicking people were exasperated by. it's his treacle-like thought processes and reaction time. He think's he's got all the time in the world, but Scott Pendlebury he ain't. Better off just giving it to the opposition and hoping for the turn over than watching him stand there and get caught hold it again and again. At least handing it to the nearest Geelong player would be unexpected and they'd be under some pressure. Giving them a free doesn't help in the slightest.

 

[Oooh Cyril]

I dont know if Paul Chapmans comments about Hawthorn fans booing Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

have been spoken about here
I didnt boo him but I can understand why many did
Chapman was DELISTED by Geelong while Isaac Smith

7

Isaac Smith

Age

35

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.3

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.4

5star

M

5.5

5star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

D

19.4

4star

K

11.1

4star

HB

8.3

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.3

4star

D

19.2

5star

K

10.6

4star

HB

8.6

5star

M

7.6

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.6

3star

left of his OWN FREE WILL

 

[Mercy Seat]

I am not just talking about yesterday's game though.

The bomb it long to a contested pack/no one in particular inside our forward 50 has been something I have noticed one a weekly basis over the past 4 years.

I just cant believe that every single week the teams we play against are that good defensively to take away the option of kicking to a leading forward.

Some weeks sure, but every single week?

I mean we played Richmond last week and people said we bombed it long because of their strong defensive unit but then Sydney come out this week and kick 17 goals on them with multiple goals coming from leading forwards.

The level of repetition I see in how we go about our forward 50's leads me to conclude that it must be a team tactic.

Have you ever watched us train? It’s not a tactic, it’s representative of a very inexperienced and under performing forward line and slow ball movement that is nothing like it was 4 years ago +. If you watched our practice matches and second half of round one, it’s not difficult to understand this.

 

[Argy]

Well I mean...what else is he going to say?? lol "Howe cost us the game with his f*ck up" ?

He didn't have to say anything - especially to defend him.

 

[H00t]

Mate it takes time to perfect a game plan it doesn't happen in one or two seasons it takes time and team synergy. Our team at the moment is in a state of flux. We will keep practicing to get better its the only way forward, hard work as we add more players that will help us to our next premiership

Edit: we are much better at executing it this year than last. So we are heading in the right direction

We are definitely playing better than last year and agree that it does take time to perfect a game plan. But it shouldn’t be taking this long to get it off the ground.

Look at how Adelaide are playing after only having Nicks for just over a season. They way they play has changed and improved massively. They haven’t perfected their game-plan but are playing heaps better we are still doing the same thing that hasn’t worked again and again.

So I’m not sure whether the game-plan is wrong, or too complicated or something else. But the coaches have to sort out the offensive side to our game. I wouldn’t mind losing games trying to win them.

 

[The hands of stone]

I dont know if Paul Chapmans comments about Hawthorn fans booing Isaac Smith have been spoken about here
I didnt boo him but I can understand why many did
Chapman was DELISTED by Geelong while Isaac Smith left of his OWN FREE WILL

The guy still cant move on from the 2008 GF and is trying to somehow stay relevant in the 'rivalry'.

Probably angling at an invite to the next presidents lunch down at KP too.

 

[KermitJagger]

We are definitely playing better than last year and agree that it does take time to perfect a game plan. But it shouldn’t be taking this long to get it off the ground.

Look at how Adelaide are playing after only having Nicks for just over a season. They way they play has changed and improved massively. They haven’t perfected their game-plan but are playing heaps better we are still doing the same thing that hasn’t worked again and again.

So I’m not sure whether the game-plan is wrong, or too complicated or something else. But the coaches have to sort out the offensive side to our game. I wouldn’t mind losing games trying to win them.

We're coming into the season having lost or are playing without over half of our defensive unit from the past 5 seasons, and our entire stock of wings from the same.

Obviously we're going from a base of defense to be protective of our relatively new unit down there, given that it just lost players like Frawley and Stratton, with Sicily being out for most of the season. Guys like Scully, Smith and Hendo worked very hard to plug gaps and get back and forward too.

Gotta be patient that it'll be figured out.

 

[TheFourPillars]

We are definitely playing better than last year and agree that it does take time to perfect a game plan. But it shouldn’t be taking this long to get it off the ground.

Look at how Adelaide are playing after only having Nicks for just over a season. They way they play has changed and improved massively. They haven’t perfected their game-plan but are playing heaps better we are still doing the same thing that hasn’t worked again and again.

So I’m not sure whether the game-plan is wrong, or too complicated or something else. But the coaches have to sort out the offensive side to our game. I wouldn’t mind losing games trying to win them.

The have a strong KP that leads out at the ball we do not. They also seem to have better skills by foot. Or are executing better than us

 

[CobberRodgers]

Clarko disagrees...

Don’t blame Howe - The Age, 4/6/2021

todayspaper.smedia.com.au

Don’t blame Howe
Clarko defends Hawk in error-hit display

Hawthorn coach Alastair Clarkson said Daniel Howe was “following instructions” when he made two crucial errors in yesterday’s five-point loss to Geelong and suggested that these blunders were merely “two of 100’’ that the Hawks made.


Clarkson said that Howe, who turned the ball over in what led to the last goal kicked by the Cats (to Jordan Clark), would be “feeling low”, but that the Hawks had to take chances to get themselves into the game, as they came from behind in the final quarter.


Howe subsequently made an error with a failed switch of play when Hawthorn were pressing for the match-winning goal, only to have the ball turned over.


“They were switch opportunities,” said Clarkson. “To give ourselves a chance to get back into the game, we had to take our chances.


“He didn’t execute as well as he’d like, but he was following instructions in terms of trying to generate some open space ... In endeavour to do that, he made two errors. But they were ... two errors of 100 that we made over the course of the day. Mistakes happen in games of footy. We’ll wrap our arms around him. He’ll feel pretty low and feel like he contributed to the loss. But as I said, there were probably 100 other incidents in the course of the game.”

Hitting a 340 yard drive over the dogleg is also a great idea. I wouldn't try it though, especially knowing I can only hit it 140 yards and never straight.

 

[KermitJagger]

The have a strong KP that leads out at the ball we do not. They also seem to have better skills by foot. Or are executing better than us

Interesting that our DE% is the 4th best this season. None of the other metrics match up to us using the ball well except for that one.

Sydney are up there in all of the stats I look at for a side primed to succeed - which sucks. I'd rather not see them rise up the ladder again.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Interesting that our DE% is the 4th best this season. None of the other metrics match up to us using the ball well except for that one.

Sydney are up there in all of the stats I look at for a side primed to succeed - which sucks. I'd rather not see them rise up the ladder again.

Sydney have great ball users. our 2013 to 2015 side would be devastating with this new rule

 

[RoughysMullet]

I dont know if Paul Chapmans comments about Hawthorn fans booing Isaac Smith have been spoken about here
I didnt boo him but I can understand why many did
Chapman was DELISTED by Geelong while Isaac Smith left of his OWN FREE WILL

Chapman’s a utensil plain and simple- still filthy that we rolled them in 2008. As we’ve said it’s a complete different situation with Isaac- he had a contract infront of him and he chose to play for the rivals...

Looks like all the peptides have finally gone to Chappy’s head- he went from slow and fat and on the scrap heap to muscular and fit in one off season- don’t tell me Dank and Bomber didn’t have him on the gear at Geelong...

 

[JoeHawk]

It’s good to be excited about the group again, despite being 1-2.

if only we had a marking forward. We have to find one somehow. Over the best few years I’m confident we will become a force again but we don’t even have a prospect on our list that excites me as a tall forward.

Lewis is our main hope here and would be nice to see him reach that late 2019 form. Needs Gunston there as well to take away a key defender.

 

[H00t]

We're coming into the season having lost or are playing without over half of our defensive unit from the past 5 seasons, and our entire stock of wings from the same.

Obviously we're going from a base of defense to be protective of our relatively new unit down there, given that it just lost players like Frawley and Stratton, with Sicily being out for most of the season. Guys like Scully, Smith and Hendo worked very hard to plug gaps and get back and forward too.

Gotta be patient that it'll be figured out.

It will take some time for our defence to click. Not sure we have to protect it though. We need to let it grow. Same with our offensive players. We have to attack with the ball and defend without it.

Alas that’s how the coaches want to coach and they do know more about footy than I do.

 

[H00t]

The have a strong KP that leads out at the ball we do not. They also seem to have better skills by foot. Or are executing better than us

Tex is having a blinder of a year. I’d love our forwards to be leading like he does and trying to create space. I would hope the coaches want players to lead. But we’ve seen no movement from our forward half to provide options.

 

[westhawk]

Ceglar didn't take 1 mark, not 1, be interesting to see if Clarkson's love affair with him continues.

WE play 1 down with Cegs, brings nothing at all. He is not physical, rarely takes marks or kicks goals. If we are going to play 2 ruckman, then just bring in Reeves. May aswell start the development now.

 

[kazzooka]

Are our tall forwards coached to stand and point rather than lead? How hard is it to lead at the ball carrier? I reckon it cost us a few goals today and played into the Cats defenders hands.

The 1 lead i saw was from kosi and took the mark. Ended up hitting the post from a tight angle. We had so many plays where we were streaming forward with no pressure and nobody lead at the ball carrier or they just bombed it long. Cj after his 50, shiels had cj open but kicked across ground instead, O'meara and wingard from clearances. Morrison from the wing a few times.

I don't know if the kicks are poor decisions or there is not enough forward craft but Jordan Lewis in those situations would just kick to space and force the forward to run to it rather than bomb onto the pack.

 

[VandoHawk]

The 1 lead i saw was from kosi and took the mark. Ended up hitting the post from a tight angle. We had so many plays where we were streaming forward with no pressure and nobody lead at the ball carrier or they just bombed it long. Cj after his 50, shiels had cj open but kicked across ground instead, O'meara and wingard from clearances. Morrison from the wing a few times.

I don't know if the kicks are poor decisions or there is not enough forward craft but Jordan Lewis in those situations would just kick to space and force the forward to run to it rather than bomb onto the pack.

It's a combination of both I think. Our midfielders don't have the skills required to execute the types of precise kicks Lewis used to do especially under perceived pressure. And bar Bruest our forwards are still fairly inexperienced, have had little time to build chemistry and were against two of the best defensive units in the game. The result is the game-plan we practice at training ends up falling apart and we default to the long bomb.

It will improve with time - especially the forward craft - but I also think we need to target good ball users to add to our midfield. It's slightly concerning that we have a serious lack of 'good' ball users through the midfield at either AFL or VFL level, let alone elite users.