Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Essendon v St.Kilda *STEELE 100TH* *CLARK 50TH* *CROUCH DEBUT*

[Southseas]

Booking flights and accommodation for round 5 is looking pretty silly now in hindsight

 

[FQFjt]

I don’t think Hill is in a position not to be dropped I just don’t think the alternatives will be trying to give you more. As you’ve said effort.
I think he’s in a form slump not an effort slump

I take much of what Ross Lyon says in the media with a grain of salt, but his comments about how to get the best out of Hill as a coach seem spot on, and he's obviously one of only a tiny handful of people who have expertise on that. He said that Hill doesn't respond to old school whacks, and needs a more nurturing approach. Dropping him would only make sense if it improved the team, but if it was as a punishment then I would not be doing it.

 

[FQFjt]

No I wouldn't I rate Brown. I rate Membrey too and I rated Bruce and wanted to keep him to protect King from being heaped with expectation. Brown nearly won the Coleman a couple of seasons ago and had one down year and everyone wrote him off. I rate Steele very highly and I rated all our players who were killing it last year. Just because they play for our club they don't get a free pass though. I have stood up for Seb Ross and Hill even in the last couple of days....even though I'm pissed off with them both. Who do you think looks elite this year at the Saints? Or even A grade?

Brown will be interesting to watch. He was obviously a gun before 2020, but then North dropped him during the season and basically gave him away for free, and there was only one team who showed any interest in picking him up. Surely, you would think, there is a reason for that.

 

[MrFoster]

But people are saying the game plan is that bad players just gave no effort. Now we are going to give effort because the players have been knocked. I would have thought good effort and a poor game plan is a loss no matter the effort. By the way Essendon had normal effort and that’s why they beat us. We had no effort so their normal effort gave them a huge win.

Why can’t the root cause be both game plan, injury and effort? Or game plan is making our players look particularly bad especially with our ruck injuries.. e.g. players are been found out of position or out numbered too often and can’t win the ball in contests.. so we look slow, discorganised and lazy..

From what i can see, we still play exactly the same as last year.. long bomb at all cost (other teams only do this when out of good options), because Marshall/Ryder are both missing, we lose the easy centre clearances and marking power around the ground.. so basically we have no control over midfield or the game whatso ever.. this Rats and the coaching staff should address, and they haven’t.. past players in the media would not study us that closely, so they would just pick out the most obvious things they can see which are symptoms, which is players not tackling/defending enough..

Of course, that’s only my humble opinion.. the reality maybe a combination of things.. This forum is for ppl to share their thoughts/views, everyone can agree/disagree as they wish.. let’s keep it that way..

 

[plugger66]

Why can’t the root cause be both game plan, injury and effort? Or game plan is making our players look particularly bad especially with our ruck injuries.. e.g. players are been found out of position or out numbered too often and can’t win the ball in contests.. so we look slow, discorganised and lazy..

From what i can see, we still play exactly the same as last year.. long bomb at all cost (other teams only do this when out of good options), because Marshall/Ryder are both missing, we lose the easy centre clearances and marking power around the ground.. so basically we have no control over midfield or the game whatso ever.. this Rats and the coaching staff should address, and they haven’t.. past players in the media would not study us that closely, so they would just pick out the most obvious things they can see which are symptoms, which is players not tackling/defending enough..

Of course, that’s only my humble opinion.. the reality maybe a combination of things.. This forum is for ppl to share their thoughts/views, everyone can agree/disagree as they wish.. let’s keep it that way..

Yep and that’s why I’m telling you I disagree and why. Not sure where my post says others can’t have opinion. And I am talking about the Essendon game and I will continue to say this. No one would have a clue if our game plan is good or bad in that game because there was so much lack of effort. And if you noticed the post I was replying to the person suggested it was game plan but have us a chance this week. I’m no expert on game plans but it isn’t a stretch to suggest 2 or 3 training sessions isn’t enough to alter a game plan that others have suggested players didn’t try because the game plan is that bad and then in 3 days it’s all fixed. I’m going with impossible so that suggests that it was really effort last week which is what I’ve said all along as well has nearly everyone in the media. Roo actually said it was effort and not structure.

 

[gringo2011]

Brown will be interesting to watch. He was obviously a gun before 2020, but then North dropped him during the season and basically gave him away for free, and there was only one team who showed any interest in picking him up. Surely, you would think, there is a reason for that.

I think the new rules look tailor-made for him.

 

[scotteydog]

Dropping Carlisle after he played well based on him having a child in October the previous year has to be one of the weirdest things I've read on here.

You read into what you want, not what was actually said.

 

[AirWinmar]

I think the new rules look tailor-made for him.

Would be leading in the Coleman race if he played against us

 

[True Blue Saint]

Hey fam, I've had a busy few days since the Essendon debacle and wanted to read every post in the thread so here are my thoughts:

• Attacking ball movement – Our inside 50s are beyond a joke. We are so easy to set up against defensively it’s not even funny. Ridley and Neckbeard had an absolute ball intercept marking everything in sight. Same old story with May, Lever & Gawn the week prior. Our entries are shallow and going to a stagnant forward line. Nobody is leading. So easy to defend against
• In transition – What has happened to our ball movement from D50? It’s slow. At both games last week, my mate and I observed that the majority of the time we hit a short target out wide, then…nothing. Nobody leads. Nobody tries to drag their opponent away to create space. We end up going long down the line and usually the opponent come up with. Predictable.
• Haven’t adapted to the new rules – This one is primarily on the coaching staff. We were worked out last year – The likes of Scott and Buckley figured out by keeping an intercept marking loose player free in the backline they were able to prevent the “out the back” goals that we were making a living on. We haven’t adapted and created a plan B. Teams this year move the ball with short, crisp passing on the 45 degree angle to try and open up the field. As mentioned previously, we go short and wide then wait until the umpire blows play on and long to a contest
• Lack of effort – This one hurts. The tackle numbers and pressure rating and everything like that has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. The players don’t give a rat’s ass (Steele, Howard and Membrey excepted) and that shows. How many times did we see players last week just walk or lightly jogging, trailing their opponents who were running FULL BORE to impact the contest. This is something that you can control and when the effort is not there it is apparent for anyone with a working set of eyes to see. Unacceptable
• Defensive structure – So, so easy to score against. Teams waltz in to an open F50 time and time again and are able to hit up leading options. Chalk and cheese compared to what we are doing at the other end. The midfield (again, Steele excepted) don’t put any pressure on the opposition mids and make it harder for the defenders. On top of this, on numerous times last week I noticed Coffield, Long and Wilkie slow or unwilling to block the space that Stringer or Hooker had to lead in to which led to easy goals.
• Stoppage structure – This is farcical the last couple of games. Clearance numbers do not paint the picture. Most of our clearances are rushed kicks thrown on the boot under pressure, whilst both Melbourne and Essendon were able to work a handball chain back and sideways to create space for their outside runners. Skrobalak, Ratten & Rath need to figure out a fix for this and fast.

 

[aussierulesrules]

In case it hasn’t been posted here yet (I’m almost pages behind!). Even Adolf is melting!:

 

[phantom13]

Hey fam, I've had a busy few days since the Essendon debacle and wanted to read every post in the thread so here are my thoughts:

• Attacking ball movement – Our inside 50s are beyond a joke. We are so easy to set up against defensively it’s not even funny. Ridley and Neckbeard had an absolute ball intercept marking everything in sight. Same old story with May, Lever & Gawn the week prior. Our entries are shallow and going to a stagnant forward line. Nobody is leading. So easy to defend against
• In transition – What has happened to our ball movement from D50? It’s slow. At both games last week, my mate and I observed that the majority of the time we hit a short target out wide, then…nothing. Nobody leads. Nobody tries to drag their opponent away to create space. We end up going long down the line and usually the opponent come up with. Predictable.
• Haven’t adapted to the new rules – This one is primarily on the coaching staff. We were worked out last year – The likes of Scott and Buckley figured out by keeping an intercept marking loose player free in the backline they were able to prevent the “out the back” goals that we were making a living on. We haven’t adapted and created a plan B. Teams this year move the ball with short, crisp passing on the 45 degree angle to try and open up the field. As mentioned previously, we go short and wide then wait until the umpire blows play on and long to a contest
• Lack of effort – This one hurts. The tackle numbers and pressure rating and everything like that has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. The players don’t give a rat’s ass (Steele, Howard and Membrey excepted) and that shows. How many times did we see players last week just walk or lightly jogging, trailing their opponents who were running FULL BORE to impact the contest. This is something that you can control and when the effort is not there it is apparent for anyone with a working set of eyes to see. Unacceptable
• Defensive structure – So, so easy to score against. Teams waltz in to an open F50 time and time again and are able to hit up leading options. Chalk and cheese compared to what we are doing at the other end. The midfield (again, Steele excepted) don’t put any pressure on the opposition mids and make it harder for the defenders. On top of this, on numerous times last week I noticed Coffield, Long and Wilkie slow or unwilling to block the space that Stringer or Hooker had to lead in to which led to easy goals.
• Stoppage structure – This is farcical the last couple of games. Clearance numbers do not paint the picture. Most of our clearances are rushed kicks thrown on the boot under pressure, whilst both Melbourne and Essendon were able to work a handball chain back and sideways to create space for their outside runners. Skrobalak, Ratten & Rath need to figure out a fix for this and fast.

Good summary, ultimately the most concerning aspect is it’s pretty much every area, I don’t know how you fix all of that in a week...

In short last week was clearly effort and structure and personnel.

You don’t get done by 12 goals by a bottom 4 team unless ALOT goes poorly.

 

[Sully111]

So by that rationale if we don’t pay a player as much we should expect less from him?

yes

 

[StCicatriz]

Or it would now seem, from melting after a St Kilda loss.

Looks like StKilda players are now meant to consult psychics, or read the tea leaves etc, before having sex.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before...

But a while back the courts decided that if you have to stay in a hotel on a work trip then its part of your workplace and employment. The case involved someone getting injured whilst having sex in a hotel room on a work trip. I cant remember the exact details but I think a TV fell on them and the person hurt their back?

So when it comes to the hubs all those AFL players are technically still at work. So if Carlisle has "accidentally" knocked up the missus does that mean it should be a work related expense for the next 18 years?

 

[StCicatriz]

Finally caught up. What a thread!!!!

We sure are a passionate bunch!

Don't think these types of threads will be a one off either. Strap your selves in, it's about to get bumpy!!!!

 

[stfan]

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before...

But a while back the courts decided that if you have to stay in a hotel on a work trip then its part of your workplace and employment. The case involved someone getting injured whilst having sex in a hotel room on a work trip. I cant remember the exact details but I think a TV fell on them and the person hurt their back?

So when it comes to the hubs all those AFL players are technically still at work. So if Carlisle has "accidentally" knocked up the missus does that mean it should be a work related expense for the next 18 years?

You like the person that started this whole discussion have failed to realise that Carlisle sowed the seed before the pandemic reached Australian shores, before hubs, before the delayed and then extended season.

So to answer your question no.

 

[MrFoster]

Hey fam, I've had a busy few days since the Essendon debacle and wanted to read every post in the thread so here are my thoughts:

• Attacking ball movement – Our inside 50s are beyond a joke. We are so easy to set up against defensively it’s not even funny. Ridley and Neckbeard had an absolute ball intercept marking everything in sight. Same old story with May, Lever & Gawn the week prior. Our entries are shallow and going to a stagnant forward line. Nobody is leading. So easy to defend against
• In transition – What has happened to our ball movement from D50? It’s slow. At both games last week, my mate and I observed that the majority of the time we hit a short target out wide, then…nothing. Nobody leads. Nobody tries to drag their opponent away to create space. We end up going long down the line and usually the opponent come up with. Predictable.
• Haven’t adapted to the new rules – This one is primarily on the coaching staff. We were worked out last year – The likes of Scott and Buckley figured out by keeping an intercept marking loose player free in the backline they were able to prevent the “out the back” goals that we were making a living on. We haven’t adapted and created a plan B. Teams this year move the ball with short, crisp passing on the 45 degree angle to try and open up the field. As mentioned previously, we go short and wide then wait until the umpire blows play on and long to a contest
• Lack of effort – This one hurts. The tackle numbers and pressure rating and everything like that has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. The players don’t give a rat’s ass (Steele, Howard and Membrey excepted) and that shows. How many times did we see players last week just walk or lightly jogging, trailing their opponents who were running FULL BORE to impact the contest. This is something that you can control and when the effort is not there it is apparent for anyone with a working set of eyes to see. Unacceptable
• Defensive structure – So, so easy to score against. Teams waltz in to an open F50 time and time again and are able to hit up leading options. Chalk and cheese compared to what we are doing at the other end. The midfield (again, Steele excepted) don’t put any pressure on the opposition mids and make it harder for the defenders. On top of this, on numerous times last week I noticed Coffield, Long and Wilkie slow or unwilling to block the space that Stringer or Hooker had to lead in to which led to easy goals.
• Stoppage structure – This is farcical the last couple of games. Clearance numbers do not paint the picture. Most of our clearances are rushed kicks thrown on the boot under pressure, whilst both Melbourne and Essendon were able to work a handball chain back and sideways to create space for their outside runners. Skrobalak, Ratten & Rath need to figure out a fix for this and fast.

Good observations.. basically we play a low percentage and physically intense game style, continuous long bombs to packs hoping for a pack mark inside 50 or small forwards crumbing/forcing a turnover..

Good teams now plays a high percentage game (yes, even Essendon did this). In congestion, they methodically work the ball to the outside for a clean forward entry and hit targets coming out of back line which then guarantee a clean entry with the new stationary man on the mark rule.. This is how Hind is now averaging 23 possessions in his 4 games this year, and had had 3 goal assists tonight.. ouch.. and we traded him to keep Geary a spot in the backline?

It’s a bit like going to the casino and expect to always win against the house.. you might win sometimes (last year we won a lot, but think Ryder and the short quarters meant we can keep up with the high intensity game style), but in the long run.. you lose more often than not..

 

[pebblesofsand]

Good summary, ultimately the most concerning aspect is it’s pretty much every area, I don’t know how you fix all of that in a week...

In short last week was clearly effort and structure and personnel.

You don’t get done by 12 goals by a bottom 4 team unless ALOT goes poorly.

The most concerning area is that the coaching staff have known about the "standing the mark" rule since mid November last year and appear to have done absolutely zilch to change our game style to accommodate the rule change.

Does not bode well for the future.

And people speak about Hill not working hard enough to justify his salary!!!

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before...

But a while back the courts decided that if you have to stay in a hotel on a work trip then its part of your workplace and employment. The case involved someone getting injured whilst having sex in a hotel room on a work trip. I cant remember the exact details but I think a TV fell on them and the person hurt their back?

So when it comes to the hubs all those AFL players are technically still at work. So if Carlisle has "accidentally" knocked up the missus does that mean it should be a work related expense for the next 18 years?

They weren't hubbing in February is the one flaw in the darstardly plan.

 

[StCicatriz]

You like the person that started this whole discussion have failed to realise that Carlisle sowed the seed before the pandemic reached Australian shores, before hubs, before the delayed and then extended season.

So to answer your question no.

They weren't hubbing in February is the one flaw in the darstardly plan.

Hehehe this thread sure is one of the more interesting turn of events!!!

I never would have imagined that we would be discussing when a players child was conceived.

I am 100% sure this is the content this site was designed for!

Imagine if a player had done a career ending injury whilst in the hub during some extra curricular activity.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Hehehe this thread sure is one of the more interesting turn of events!!!

I never would have imagined that we would be discussing when a players child was conceived.

I am 100% sure this is the content this site was designed for!

Imagine if a player had done a career ending injury whilst in the hub during some extra curricular activity.

Sorry but are you referring to a sexual injury?

That's actually ******* hilarious

 

[Midfield Gun]

In case it hasn’t been posted here yet (I’m almost pages behind!). Even Adolf is melting!:

Haha, that's hilarious! Almost made up for the pain of reading this entire thread.

Almost.

 

[StFly]

Sorry but are you referring to a sexual injury?

That's actually ******* hilarious

"Sorry honey, club mandated" best excuse.

 

[austinnn]

This is truly unacceptable. David Rath, Brett Ratten

Brett Ratten

Age

52

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.4

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

and Aaron Hamill

Aaron Hamill

Age

46

Ht

184cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

8.5

3star

HB

5.5

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

2.8

4star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.4

3star

should watch this then show it to the players interspersed with the bestest nuggets from this thread and the ganeday thread - primarily as punishment for making us sink so low as to be outclassed by Essington.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

This is truly unacceptable. David Rath, Brett Ratten and Aaron Hamill should watch this then show it to the players interspersed with the bestest nuggets from this thread and the ganeday thread - primarily as punishment for making us sink so low as to be outclassed by Essington.

I certainly hope they don’t need to use that video and the opinions of a bunch of cretins on an online forum to motivate them to be better than that performance. If they do that’s really really worrying.

 

[StCicatriz]

This is truly unacceptable. David Rath, Brett Ratten and Aaron Hamill should watch this then show it to the players interspersed with the bestest nuggets from this thread and the ganeday thread - primarily as punishment for making us sink so low as to be outclassed by Essington.

how seriously *in poor is that defensive running from jones in that very first play