Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Megabattimus]

With Shiel out for so long i'm assuming that opens up another spot on the list come MSD time.
Does that make 3?

Don't think we'll put Shiel on the LTI list since Hurley isn't on it either. So we've still only got one spot going into the MSD.

A lot can change between now and June though.

 

[ghostdog]

Cutler had a 2 year deal. Hibberd 1.
I think that's the only reason one is still around. I'd be surprised if Cutler remained after this season. Ham has gone past him. Cox & Perkins will keep him out of the team.
Laverde has gone back. Heppell is going back. Redman is in form. So there isn't a spot in defence.

With Shiel out for so long i'm assuming that opens up another spot on the list come MSD time.
Does that make 3?

Not sure how many spots that means, but if Cutler can't get a game, we're in a good position. Zaharakis returning puts him back too, and that's saying something. Sorry, Cuts.

 

[citizen-erased]

Don't think we'll put Shiel on the LTI list since Hurley isn't on it either. So we've still only got one spot going into the MSD.

A lot can change between now and June though.

imagine we're keeping the powder dry there, but come time we'll assess where things are at.
Should we opt to, it's 3 spots im assuming. We didn't fill one for Moz already?

 

[Megabattimus]

imagine we're keeping the powder dry there, but come time we'll assess where things are at.
Should we opt to, it's 3 spots im assuming. We didn't fill one for Moz already?

Nah, we've got one spot available after the SSP which was presumably opened by Mozzie's ACL.

So yeah, we'll have three spots if we put Shiel and Hurley on the LTI.

 

[eth-dog]

A player needs to be out for the year to have a pick in the MSD allocated to him. Think 20+ weeks, not 15 weeks

 

[citizen-erased]

Nah, we've got one spot available after the SSP which was presumably opened by Mozzie's ACL.

So yeah, we'll have three spots if we put Shiel and Hurley on the LTI.

Ta.

Be interesting to see how much of the MSD becomes a mini-2020 draft of leftover kids

 

[JayJ20]

It's nowhere near the disaster the Daniher debacle turned out to be.

Is this a debacle though? Carlton would have had Papley. No thank you.

 

[citizen-erased]

Is this a debacle though? Carlton would have had Papley. No thank you.

we'd have mcdonald + someone.....

 

[ant555]

Shiel deal is an interesting one

We gave up 2018 1st (Caldwell...so in effect that became 2021 2nd + most of Fantasia) & 2019 1st (Bergman*) w/ Moz coming in for the 2nd we got back
*I don't think for a second we take Bergman, and if we take Dodoro at his word, he rated Jones top 10, so to get him at 14 would have been a bargain in his eyes.

So we have Caldwell, Jones & Shiel minus Fantasia, Pick 29, Fraser Rosman (Roos got this pick for Jones, who traded it to the Dees, who took Rosman) and our 2nd this year.

Hindsight, maybe you don't do the deal.
Invest in the draft, bank Fantasia the year earlier and hope for a late 1st and keep our 2nd last year & this year (Jack Carroll and another mid to add to the depth).

It's nowhere near the disaster the Daniher debacle turned out to be.

Given what we know now you do not deal and we go to the draft. In fact we probably do it in 2017 given where we ended.
At the time we where expecting Joe back and Raz to do something.
There would have been a small minority calling for a decent rebuild at the end of 2018.

 

[ant555]

we'd have mcdonald + someone.....

And not all of Jones,Cox,Perkins and Reid.
I rated McDonald but I would say Jones has been as impressive minus the goal kicking.

 

[citizen-erased]

Given what we know now you do not deal and we go to the draft. In fact we probably do it in 2017 given where we ended.
At the time we where expecting Joe back and Raz to do something.
There would have been a small minority calling for a decent rebuild at the end of 2018.

And not all of Jones,Cox,Perkins and Reid.
I rated McDonald but I would say Jones has been as impressive minus the goal kicking.

Shiel deal makes sense to me. Did at the time and even now i don't think it's worked out so bad.
We wanted an elite mid in his prime.

Daniher i felt at the time was risky, knowing he wasn't signing we should have taken the offer on the table.
I'd lose one of the 3 for McDonald. Likely Reid given we had enough tall options.

 

[Towno78]

Shiel, for as lovely as he is, is not a difference maker. If he were we wouldn’t have been a pedestrian midfield for the past few years and had the substandard record that we’ve had.

If he was a "difference maker" we wouldn't have a pedestrian midfield

Riiiight. So Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (... I could go on and on and on), who all played in pedestrian midfields for prolonged periods, were not "difference makers"?

He's a very good player. So is Merrett. But it's quite fair to say our entire midfield unit is not good enough yet, and that's not all just on Shiel. All of the best midfields bat deep.

 

[JayJ20]

we'd have mcdonald + someone.....

Jones is pretty good. If Baldwin can get his body right, then his potential is just as great as McDonald. But that's a big IF.

I'm not too hung up on the past given that we have a lot of quality youth coming through. Also Carlton don't have Papley. That's the main thing.

 

[citizen-erased]

Jones is pretty good. If Baldwin can get his body right, then his potential is just as great as McDonald. But that's a big IF.

I'm not too hung up on the past given that we have a lot of quality youth coming through. Also Carlton don't have Papley. That's the main thing.

Yeah. Something about McDonald i really like. Reminds me a bit of Lloyd cross Lucas for some reason.
It was a risky move. I hope the club has learnt from it.

Montagna did a good segment on Stringer on 360 tonight
This stupid striker thing they're on about, he's essentially ours
So if De Goey is Kmart Dusty, it would seem Stringer is...Myer/DJ's?

If we get Baldwin/Eyre up and running along with Jones, it would free him up to do that more.
We look a lot better with Stringer at the Centre Bounces.

 

[11kgm]

Hopefully we do a good cut of the list this year

Cutler is gone looks okay then *s up didn't live up towards the hype very much like Craig Bird

Craig Bird

Age

35

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.3

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

Mozzie may be rookie or gone apparently not applying himself in rehab

Gleeson because Francis Redman and Heppell have gone past him

Clarke dodgy kicking, now injured will have to come from a long way back to stay in the side

Phillips crocked will probably need a backup ruck next year

Stewart can never get on the park so goodbye

Hurley may have to retire injured if its believed to be as bad as it is

Cahill too slow to make it at AFL level for his height and not as good with the ball at his feet like Daniel

Then hoping we hit this super draft hard especially with 19 year olds plus 18 years old

 

[Big Slam]

If he was a "difference maker" we wouldn't have a pedestrian midfield

Riiiight. So Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (... I could go on and on and on), who all played in pedestrian midfields for prolonged periods, were not "difference makers"?

He's a very good player. So is Merrett. But it's quite fair to say our entire midfield unit is not good enough yet, and that's not all just on Shiel. All of the best midfields bat deep.

Wait, you’re not really putting Shiel in the same tier as players like Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (you could go on and on).....are you?

You think that Shiel is Brownlow Medal worthy - like all the guys you listed who did earn Brownlow’s?

Yowzers.

And when did we give up multiple first round picks and considerable cap space for Merrett? Based on ROI alone Merrett is heads and shoulders better than Shiel.

 

[brutus76]

if Hooksy, Hurls, Hepp (shagger's back, shonky leg) and Zaka all leave surely that's 2.5+ mill off the books.

 

[Towno78]

Wait, you’re not really putting Shiel in the same tier as players like Hird, Watson, Crawford, Ablett, Fyfe, Judd (you could go on and on).....are you?

You think that Shiel is Brownlow Medal worthy - like all the guys you listed who did earn Brownlow’s?

Yowzers.

And when did we give up multiple first round picks and considerable cap space for Merrett? Based on ROI alone Merrett is heads and shoulders better than Shiel.

Did you even read what I wrote?
No I didn't, at any point, compare Shiel to any other player, nor say he is worthy of a Brownlow.
Let me make it really simple for you:

You said Shiel is not a "difference maker", whatever that is, otherwise our midfield wouldn't be so s**t.

I listed undisputable superstars of the game, who played in horrible midfields for extended periods of time, with poor results as proof that your assertion is complete garbage. Even those superstars as good as they were did not instantly elevate their midfields to an acceptable standard on their own.

So how can you expect Shiel, who is NOT in their league, to do so? It's a ridiculous notion. Rate him on his game, not the team's.

 

[Lore]

if Hooksy, Hurls, Hepp (shagger's back, shonky leg) and Zaka all leave surely that's 2.5+ mill off the books.

We had a significant chunk set aside for Daniher as well that I doubt would be used up by Wright, Hind, and a handful of draftees. Likewise Saad, McKenna, Fantasia.

If Merrett were to leave that's another big chunk.

The problem then is what do you spend it on? Overpay the kids? Spend big on a free agent?

 

[brutus76]

Long terms for the Riddler, Cox, Reid, Jones, Perks, Redders, Drapes for a start.

Keep Zerrett and Parish if we can.

Go for Dunks - other FA options Cerra (Freo) or Hopper (GWS)

 

[GUMBLETRON]

He didn't. You were wrong. It happens.

 

[ghostdog]

And not all of Jones,Cox,Perkins and Reid.
I rated McDonald but I would say Jones has been as impressive minus the goal kicking.

I still would have been okay with a Jones and McDonald forwardline + Cox. We still likely finish bottom six this year and go to the draft.

 

[Yoda_]

With where our list currently is, I would have no qualms if we simply went smalls across all drafts.

1. Inside midfielder - well documented
2. Small defender with good skills - the cupboard is getting pretty bare post what we have currently playing
3. Small forward with reasonable defensive pressure - Tippa is 28 this year, Cahill has lots ofquestion marks, Moz coming back from an ACL.
4. Wingmen - players with running power isn't a huge pressing need but more a suggestion from this point onwards for me.


We have a plethora of (young) key position players, a load of (small) role players in the middle parts of the ground and as much as I would like a ruck, waiting till next year and grabbing a raw kid would be much better list management imho.

 

[Kyptastic]

With where our list currently is, I would have no qualms if we simply went smalls across all drafts.

1. Inside midfielder - well documented
2. Small defender with good skills - the cupboard is getting pretty bare post what we have currently playing
3. Small forward with reasonable defensive pressure - Tippa is 28 this year, Cahill has lots ofquestion marks, Moz coming back from an ACL.
4. Wingmen - players with running power isn't a huge pressing need but more a suggestion from this point onwards for me.


We have a plethora of (young) key position players, a load of (small) role players in the middle parts of the ground and as much as I would like a ruck, waiting till next year and grabbing a raw kid would be much better list management imho.

Depending on how the Davey’s come on this next year might negate the need to draft a small forward this year if you were going to get both in 2022

 

[Yoda_]

Depending on how the Davey’s come on this next year might negate the need to draft a small forward this year if you were going to get both in 2022

Im under the impression that they are small midfielders anyways. Probably start fwd but then end up something like Devon Smith/Will Snelling.