Review Positives and Negatives vs St Kilda - Rd 4 2021

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

woosha24 said:
It really, really needs to be addressed now. Its an absolute indictment on the team (the midfield in particular) and the way we play the game.

No more hiding gutless performances behind accurate goalkicking and 3-4 goal wins. The light is being shone on the playing group and its revealing some ugly, ugly truths.
Click to expand...
Judging from Simmo's presser that was made abundantly clear. Our mids were weak when Saints lifted. Contest and ground ball shy.
 
Could only listen to the game. How the hell does a loss like that even happen....

Coming into the game we are seen as one of the flag favorites. At half time that view is only firming. By full time there's red flags everywhere. Could be a season defining performance unfortunately.

Will endure the replay at some point. I think. Maybe.

Sounds like the same old issue where we just have no answer when the game isn't played on our terms.
 
When ryan kicked that one Out on the full and then had good old laugh with a few of the boys shows me that they were treating it like a training drill at that point in the 3rd .

Also McGovern - the elephant in the room - he is getting found out that he isn't a good defender just the king of the interceptors in a zone defence. With the new rules and fast entries he is putrid. He is one of the last people I would choose for kick ins . Terrible kick . Shep , rotham , Nelson, duggan all better kicks. Terrible captains game
Kicked one over branders head cost a goal . Gets caught HTB with zero awareness costs a goal . Gives away free kicks every week now because he has to 1 on 1 defend

Kelly - buyers remorse? Happy to have him but we paid way too much . Nothing elete about his game . B grader at best this year

Smashed in the clearances and ground ball gets . Midfield got an absolute bath today and only out forwards kept us in it .

3 weeks in a row we haven't shown up in the 4th quarter. Fitness ? Too tall ? Something isn't right and we need to fix it .
 
JezMez said:
I saw Shuey last week laying tackles and burying Port players and was thinking we had tweaked out game plan to be a better contested ball side. Then Tim Kelly and Dom Sheed told me I was dreaming.
Click to expand...
I agree, this is a good point you make - I was also surprised by Shuey's relentless tackling and aggressive attack on the ball. Like you, at first I thought we've lifted or changed our game from one week to the next, there's been a new game plan introduced or a 'hellfire+brimstone' coaches talk with the players. Shuey's involvement was awesome to watch, and everyone else played in a similar fashion, maybe feeding off his energy? But Shuey went so hard he tweaked his hammy?

You could see Shuey directing traffic and giving orders and leading by example...and just what an impact he has on a game!! The difference was obvious from the game a week before.
Maybe he has a thing for playing Port, while he's not the messiah and is known to have some quiet or off games, he was inspirational in the Port game (no wonder they hate him).

Like many I thought if we continue to play like that each week, we'll go far this season.
We opened up against the Saints in a similar style and continued till half time. I was thinking finally we've got a consistent brand happening. However at half time someone obviously filled the players water bottles up with their own bathwater? They came out believing they were untouchable with their Harlem Globetrotter routine. Meanwhile Ratten had been watching these golden prancers playing 'keepy off' from his box, he went down and told his boys "smash 'em, smash 'em hard in the contests, rough these precious show-ponies up and they'll come undone!"

Without Shuey there to keep them honest, and Hurn gone early,(leadership) we turned into a rabble.
We lacked a prime mover apart from NN, and he can't be expected to do everything.
It was often a comedy of errors, with us barely getting a lucky break, and when we finally did,
Jack had his regular brain-fart right on time!
Smashed in the midfield, possibly tired legs in 2nd half after a biggie against Port, but in todays comp, can't use that as an excuse.
Not sure how much of a difference it would've made, but Exxon instead of Waterman.
We need to keep the foot on the pedal for 4 qtrs and bury teams, not start dancing around playing 'keepy off'...Tora, Tora, Tora! (;

We are so reliant on NN, he should be the cherry on top of all the teams hard work, but they get such silver service they become spoilt...
We won a GF without NN, Gaff, Shep and TK! Where are we at now Eagles???
We might rebound against Pies at home with a full crowd, but looks like we're going to be a rollercoaster ride until we get Shuey and Yeo back in the grunt-room!
Good to see Rotham, Brander, Winder and of course Petch have a go.(he came good, who woulda thunk it? Just goes to show, patience grasshopper)
Maybe that was the 'wake-up/get real' call we needed to have..how many do we need to have?
Well, that's my spin on a dismal outcome...I'm sure we'll rebound...(now where's my bottle, hic)
PS:- We looked like shyte because the Saints were so good, credit where it's due, they smashed us good n' proper!)
 
Last edited:
The Passenger said:
Will endure the replay at some point. I think. Maybe.
Click to expand...

Let me save you the trouble:

Before half time - mids were allowed to roam freely and rack up uncontested possessions. We looked a million bucks.

After half time - St Kilda adopted a man-on-man strategy and forced our mids to play accountable football. We kicked 1 point to full time, they kicked 50 points.

Thats it. No masterstroke of coaching. No one sustained a game-ending injury (beyond Hurn). We didnt run out of puff and the Saints didnt suddenly turn into worldbeaters. We were forced into playing a contested form of footy, and that went about as well as we have come to expect.
 
CM9000 said:
Some pretty interesting responses on here. In the back of my mind I was kinda feeling like this could happen - good teams respond, and woosha24 St Kilda aren’t actually a bad team, if you remember to literally 6 months ago. People seem to keep forgetting we’re missing half our goddamn midfield. I know this side is premiership quality, and I pretty much saw that the past two weeks against the Bulldogs and Port, because, according to the logic of posters on here after this loss, both those games should have been 50 point losses. It doesn’t make any sense to assume today’s match is a continuation of a trend, given the fact that, if this was true, the past 2 weeks would look very, very different.

If anything, what this thread ultimately teaches me is the fact posters on here revert to the same goddamn mindset every time a match like this happens, which can be described as a despair that tries to compensate for itself by assuming a pessimism that, while treated as ”more realistic” by the individual in question, is only a coping mechanism.
Click to expand...

While I agree to an extent (assuming a pessimism) I try to remind myself to stay positive. However, I see the same illness (as do many others) that crept in after 2018: an inability to play 4 quarters. It's crippled us since 2018 - a suspicion that we won't hold on to a well-earned lead to lose a game we by all means had dead-to-rights. It doesn't happen every time - absolutely granted, but it's a theme which occurs regularly enough to warrant pessimism.

+ve - Petch (who I usually have no time for)
+ve - first half

-ve - can't play 4 quarters disease

Anyone developed a vaccine for that yet?
 
One positive (actually, is more optimistic thinking than a positive) I can think of is that we've already seen some very unexpected results this year. Almost certainly whoever wins it this year is gonna have a few head scratchers to look back upon.

Richmond, port and now us already have one.

The response next week will be very telling.

The 0-2 outside Perth is concerning though.
 
woosha24 said:
Let me save you the trouble:

Before half time - mids were allowed to roam freely and rack up uncontested possessions. We looked a million bucks.

After half time - St Kilda adopted a man-on-man strategy and forced our mids to play accountable football. We kicked 1 point to full time, they kicked 50 points.

Thats it. No masterstroke of coaching. No one sustained a game-ending injury. We didnt run out of puff and the Saints didnt suddenly turn into worldbeaters. We were forced into playing a contested form of footy, and that went about as well as we have come to expect.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, which area of the ground do we suffer most and which players? Mids I'm assuming.

Sheed is positively awful when the tough get going in opposition. He's #1 on my chopping block. Can't tackle, can't sprint and weak to the ball. He's an ace kicker -that's about it.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Positives - good start
Negatives - Jackson Nelson. Lots of jogging with low effort. Jackson Nelson. Poor handballs. Jackson Nelson
 
Still raging.

That was such a shitshow in the midfield that eventually Nic Nat wasn't even tapping it to his team-mates, rather to tapping to to himself.

How does Kelly come into our team and regress backwards.

I don't even blame the players. This is completely on the coaches head. And it's been allowed to happen for many, many years. Today was the culmination and laying the cupboard bare for all to see, for all the inactions taken for a long time.
 
Not here to stick the boot in.

Easy to say with hindsight but I doubt any team would have beaten us once we turned it on halfway through the third. We had our 'now or never' moment and once it clicked we became untouchable. I agree with a few of you in here that before that point we were a goal or two away from dropping our heads and losing by 50+. Swings and roundabouts.

WCE are a professional and talented side and will do well this year. Even the best teams are bound to have a s**t game and a reality check every so often, and maybe it will end up being a good thing that this one was at the start of the season, not the end. A week is a very long time in footy.

Garry Lyon is an absolute w***er.
 
wc_eagles_since86 said:
In your opinion, which area of the ground do we suffer most and which players? Mids I'm assuming.
Click to expand...

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who wouldnt say "mids". ;)

Its a bigger problem than that though - its the way we are playing the game, or more specifically the fact that we dont want to play into any type of contested ball situation. That problem starts in the midfield, but its endemic all over the field - too many players instinctually "guarding grass" instead of applying direct pressure to the man with the ball. And dont even get me started on our tackling ability...
 
leph said:
Not here to stick the boot in.

Easy to say with hindsight but I doubt any team would have beaten us once we turned it on halfway through the third. We had our 'now or never' moment and once it clicked we became untouchable. I agree with a few of you in here that before that point we were a goal or two away from dropping our heads and losing by 50+. Swings and roundabouts.

WCE are a professional and talented side and will do well this year. Even the best teams are bound to have a sh*t game and a reality check every so often, and maybe it will end up being a good thing that this one was at the start of the season, not the end. A week is a very long time in footy.

Garry Lyon is an absolute w***er.
Click to expand...
Lyon, pavlich and rucuioto should never commentate
 
leph said:
Not here to stick the boot in.

Easy to say with hindsight but I doubt any team would have beaten us once we turned it on halfway through the third. We had our 'now or never' moment and once it clicked we became untouchable. I agree with a few of you in here that before that point we were a goal or two away from dropping our heads and losing by 50+. Swings and roundabouts.

WCE are a professional and talented side and will do well this year. Even the best teams are bound to have a sh*t game and a reality check every so often, and maybe it will end up being a good thing that this one was at the start of the season, not the end. A week is a very long time in footy.

Garry Lyon is an absolute w***er.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, you won because your coach did the right thing in the third and identified that he needed to play a contested game of football to beat us. Your mob "turning it on" was a direct result of that rather than any kind of inspirational feeling or pride in the playing group.

Going into tonight we all thought we were a good enough team to hold off a surge from anyone when holding a 6 goal lead. We now realise that we arent and our problems with contested ball are worse than we thought.
 
woosha24 said:
I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on this board who wouldnt say "mids". ;)

Its a bigger problem than that though - its the way we are playing the game, or more specifically the fact that we dont want to play into any type of contested ball situation. That problem starts in the midfield, but its endemic all over the field - too many players instinctually "guarding grass" instead of applying direct pressure to the man with the ball. And dont even get me started on our tackling ability...
Click to expand...

As a team I'd say we're too soft - I'd honestly like to see some fear instilled into the opposition once in a while (I miss Yeo - he's got this factor).
Totally agree on tackling: Cameron is a beast and he's smallish - but man can he lay on those former-NRL slams. So many could learn from him.

I thought we applied some good pressure early on, but it massively faded 2nd half. It's hard to remember the last time we really just made an opposition team fall apart with direct pressure all game: I get what you mean.
 
wc_eagles_since86 said:
While I agree to an extent (assuming a pessimism) I try to remind myself to stay positive. However, I see the same illness (as do many others) that crept in after 2018: an inability to play 4 quarters. It's crippled us since 2018 - a suspicion that we won't hold on to a well-earned lead to lose a game we by all means had dead-to-rights. It doesn't happen every time - absolutely granted, but it's a theme which occurs regularly enough to warrant pessimism.

+ve - Petch (who I usually have no time for)
+ve - first half

-ve - can't play 4 quarters disease

Anyone developed a vaccine for that yet?
Click to expand...
I would even argue that it was present during 2018. We had these sorts of shock losses back then. Adelaide came back from a similar margin and Essendon were up by some insane margin at 1/4 time. The difference is we kept finding a way to grind out the other matches (Wins against bottom 4 teams like Carlton that were less than inspiring) and put ourselves in a good spot where we then found an extra gear in the finals.

We don’t need to look like the best side in the comp for 4 quarters every week (even though it would be nice). Blow teams away early and then hold them at bay is a fairly sound plan, it’s just the defensive errors giving them a look that are killer. We know the opposition are going to come but more often than not we are good at weathering the storm.

It’s now about how we respond over the next 2 weeks. Next weeks game probably tells us nothing other than if we lose.. if we win it’s expected. Our game of the season is Geelong at Kardinya. Win that and tonight will be cancelled out imo. 4-2 is still a very good start considering who we have out and our run home. Up to the players to respond, we’ll know if they’re up for it by the end of next week.
 
Tough loss to stomach but honestly not to worried and hopefully a bit of a wake up call.

The list has the talent when fit and healthy to seriously challenge, just between the ears with this mob

Have to hang in until yeo and shuey come back and start building into finals from there
 
wc_eagles_since86 said:
As a team I'd say we're too soft
...
I thought we applied some good pressure early on, but it massively faded 2nd half. It's hard to remember the last time we really just made an opposition team fall apart with direct pressure all game: I get what you mean.
Click to expand...
Yeah, for me it's pretty much that simple. Most of the team appeared visibly disinterested to me. I'm accustomed to us losing ground ball battles, but I'm also accustomed to us at least trying.
I don't think this game was lost at the selection table, as much as the Waterman inclusion was a mistake. Xavier "who dat?" O'Neill is not the difference between a 54-1 cliff-dive and a cruisey victory. The team was flat as a tack. I don't know if it was mostly fatigue or mostly attitude, and I also don't know which I'd prefer it to be because both options are bad omens at this point of a season.

No disrespect to the Saints at all, because they turned up the heat big time and we couldn't handle it. (and if anything, that 30+ point lead was flattering to us on balance of play). But we really should have been willing & able to offer some resistance. Not being sure whether some of the players were actually trying to do that is what was so deflating.

Props to Petch for finding ways to have an impact, and Brander for following up last week with another retention-worthy game.
 
twce13 said:
I wouldn't piss on gary lyon if he was on fire. Just sayin'
Click to expand...

Agree and sadly, I am even nastier than you, I might just throw a cup or two of lawn mower fuel on the fire from the billy can.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MeltMan
Autopsy Round 4, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Sydney
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
246
Views
11K
Campaigner for good
Campaigner for good
MeltMan
Autopsy Round 6, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Fremantle
12 13 14 15 16
Replies
375
Views
16K
Proeagle
Proeagle
MeltMan
Autopsy Round 5, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Richmond
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
295
Views
12K
Wilksyy
Wilksyy
MeltMan
Autopsy Round 2, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs GWS
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
225
Views
10K
Alesana
A
Dylan82
Autopsy Round 3, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Western Bulldogs
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
293
Views
12K
eaglesnutcase
E
HoneyBadger35
Autopsy Round 1, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Port Adelaide
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
277
Views
12K
WCE_phil
WCE_phil
HoneyBadger35
Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs St Kilda
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
157
Views
9K
Bender_
Bender_

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top