Autopsy Rd 5 BELTED! Power turns the Blues lights out

Who player well for the Blues vs Port?


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Blue since 72

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We are 3rd last in inside 50 tackles Harry yes Harry is our leader with 6 .
Our small forwards as a group bar a couple of exceptions are seriously letting us down here .
Murph now a permanent forward in 5 games has a paltry 1 .
2/3 of our total of 41 are from our talls Harry Cas and Jack and mids Crippa Walsh and Ed .
Interestingly West Coast have less but given their tall forwards actually lead up the ground and most likely mark more often and they have real quality crumbers it isnt such an issue for them .
Its a real issue for us imo .

This goes directly to the heart of Teague's game plan which requires forward half pressure. Beggers belief that he plays Murphy at all and certainly adds weight that the guy is being gifted 300. Either that or Teague doesn't believe in his own plan.

If he's serious about forward half pressure then Fogarty for one should be stationed their permanently until at least one of Fish or Martin get back.

Not surprised the forward half actually looks better with JSOS there, at least he never gives up even though he's not overly quick.
 

Blue since 72

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While the kick inside 50 is a glaringly obvious issue, I'm more worried about our structures around the ball, and between the arcs. The way we make it so hard for us to move the ball without pressure, while making it so easy for the opposition.

Do you think this is about personnal or something deeper?
 

Stamos

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Do you think this is about personnal or something deeper?

Deeper.
I don't think some of our selections are helping at all (Setterfield/Kennedy on the wing etc), but it's positioning. We don't stand in the right spots, and we don't run to the right spots at the right time.

This puts us under pressure both in terms of skill, because we're not free with the ball, but also in terms of decision making, because the easy/right option isn't available. Just watch how easy it was for Collingwood and Port to move the ball from the contest, through the middle of the ground, into their forwardline. And compare it to us (even in the Freo/Suns games we dominated).
 

17SetMeFree

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Trying to be dusty is exactly my read. He's deviated from the player he was when he was at his best and is not trying to do too much.

I actually think he needs to put his tagger on their ass - even if it costs a free kick, he needs to highlight the holding off the ball to the umpires at the first bounce so theyre watching for it.
He's no dusty, no where near a bont, and even petracca has become more effective/score involvements
How many times has he put a tagger on their ass , we get the ball and are away at a stoppage only to have it reversed .

He has become a selfish footballer, and unfortunately, many people notice this now
 
Q: 1 minute in Newnes get spoiled for a direct in front kick - no awareness | 1.5 minutes in after a coridoor run ( including Fogarty cleaning up a s**t kick from Cripps great cleanup from Williamson eventually to Levi who ignores an umarked Harry and shanks it OOB from 20 meters out on an angle Form Port go boundary to Dixon who outmarks Jones and Weitering from there along boundary with unmarked Port splayers streaming to Gray who got an uncontested mark with Jones and Williams standing on their feet nowhere protectign nothing Gray missed and Weitering laces out a an easy chest mark to Casboult who drops it over the boundary. Boundary throw in sees Port tap to Wines who gives to Broad but Walsh intercepts and cops a high -Walsh gets a free has nothing in coridor ( defensive players have pushed up though ) and goes along boundary to a good mark from Levi who turns quickly and kicks to a leading Harry in pocket who is spoiled and he goes down spread eagled his favourite pose after any contest but McGovern gathers along pocket boundary and delivers a perfect uncontested mark to Newnes 20 meters out on a 45 degree angle - he misses.

That is just the first five minutes of coach killing shyte goal sense and finishing - after players had beatten their opponents to set up opportunity.

I can go through the whole game and sight numerous examples of brain farts from players who have played better and can do better- massively screwing up hard work and missing easy opportunity.

Forward structure and set ups and thinking - leading to unecessary rebounds catching out defensive players letting their man run free.

Game goes on with dubious free against Cripps to Marshall who misses and Weitering makes up for fumbles and bumbles to Jones and others 2X to eventuall clear to Kennedy who marks and gets his head kneed n tackle- 50 meters. Kennedy goes for a gallop and decides to kick at goal with Carlton players not set up anywhere defensive players not set up / forwards not set up - brain fart. Williamson collects from a well guarded exit ( he has jad three good passages of play already UP the ground) and gives a beautiful cross the body amrk to Eddie 40 meters out who offloads to Kennedy ( Eddie doesn't even turn to look for goal side forwards in space) who shanks another kick across the goal face Murphy runs it over boundary. WHY THE HURRY ? What is the thinking here? Play on till Carlton fail to kill the ball along boundary with most players forward of ball - Jones playing 20 meters behind Marshall who gets an easy coridor mark and then tumbles a kick to a leading Gray who takes the ball cleanly and gives it to a running support Jones ( who had run unmarked from Ports HBF) and turns to give it off for a kick to an unmarked Dixon in space- Ports first goal.

Half way through first quarter instead of being 2-3 goals up as we had run of play - Port get the first goal and that was the recipe they followed for the rest of the game.
 

Blue since 72

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Deeper.
I don't think some of our selections are helping at all (Setterfield/Kennedy on the wing etc), but it's positioning. We don't stand in the right spots, and we don't run to the right spots at the right time.

This puts us under pressure both in terms of skill, because we're not free with the ball, but also in terms of decision making, because the easy/right option isn't available. Just watch how easy it was for Collingwood and Port to move the ball from the contest, through the middle of the ground, into their forwardline. And compare it to us (even in the Freo/Suns games we dominated).

So it's really coaching/line coaching or we just have dumb footballers (surely they can't all be). The game has opened up massively and a lot of teams are taking it on through the guts with the stand rule but we seem to still * around the boundary and rarely take chances.

We have some outside speed now but I rarely see it used effectively.
 

Coops93

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He's no dusty, no where near a bont, and even petracca has become more effective/score involvements
How many times has he put a tagger on their ass , we get the ball and are away at a stoppage only to have it reversed .

He has become a selfish footballer, and unfortunately, many people notice this now
I think you're confusing his actions for intent. He's not being selfish for selfish reasons if that makes sense. He feels like, as others have said, he has to play like Bont or Martin for the teams benefit. I said it before, but he can do things inside neither of them can do and should maximise that instead of looking at things they do that he can't as something he should try and become.

I've never got the feeling that Patty is a selfish person or player.
 

skadoosh

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Q: 1 minute in Newnes get spoiled for a direct in front kick - no awareness | 1.5 minutes in after a coridoor run ( including Fogarty cleaning up a sh*t kick from Cripps great cleanup from Williamson eventually to Levi who ignores an umarked Harry and shanks it OOB from 20 meters out on an angle Form Port go boundary to Dixon who outmarks Jones and Weitering from there along boundary with unmarked Port splayers streaming to Gray who got an uncontested mark with Jones and Williams standing on their feet nowhere protectign nothing Gray missed and Weitering laces out a an easy chest mark to Casboult who drops it over the boundary. Boundary throw in sees Port tap to Wines who gives to Broad but Walsh intercepts and cops a high -Walsh gets a free has nothing in coridor ( defensive players have pushed up though ) and goes along boundary to a good mark from Levi who turns quickly and kicks to a leading Harry in pocket who is spoiled and he goes down spread eagled his favourite pose after any contest but McGovern gathers along pocket boundary and delivers a perfect uncontested mark to Newnes 20 meters out on a 45 degree angle - he misses.

That is just the first five minutes of coach killing sh*te goal sense and finishing - after players had beatten their opponents to set up opportunity.

I can go through the whole game and sight numerous examples of brain farts from players who have played better and can do better- massively screwing up hard work and missing easy opportunity.

Forward structure and set ups and thinking - leading to unecessary rebounds catching out defensive players letting their man run free.

Game goes on with dubious free against Cripps to Marshall who misses and Weitering makes up for fumbles and bumbles to Jones and others 2X to eventuall clear to Kennedy who marks and gets his head kneed n tackle- 50 meters. Kennedy goes for a gallop and decides to kick at goal with Carlton players not set up anywhere defensive players not set up / forwards not set up - brain fart. Williamson collects from a well guarded exit ( he has jad three good passages of play already UP the ground) and gives a beautiful cross the body amrk to Eddie 40 meters out who offloads to Kennedy ( Eddie doesn't even turn to look for goal side forwards in space) who shanks another kick across the goal face Murphy runs it over boundary. WHY THE HURRY ? What is the thinking here? Play on till Carlton fail to kill the ball along boundary with most players forward of ball - Jones playing 20 meters behind Marshall who gets an easy coridor mark and then tumbles a kick to a leading Gray who takes the ball cleanly and gives it to a running support Jones ( who had run unmarked from Ports HBF) and turns to give it off for a kick to an unmarked Dixon in space- Ports first goal.

Half way through first quarter instead of being 2-3 goals up as we had run of play - Port get the first goal and that was the recipe they followed for the rest of the game.
Went to the game with my brother who supports another team - so a neutral watcher. His comments were essentially Port being able to move the ball from their defence to forward line with ease and uncontested marks. Biggest takeaway was how many memorable stuff ups, bad decisions, poor kick, poor handballs were made by Carlton. Whereas with Port...were there any memorable ones?

We're our own worst enemy in terms of losing possession of the ball and VERY often making poor decisions.
 

Stamos

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Q: 1 minute in Newnes get spoiled for a direct in front kick - no awareness | 1.5 minutes in after a coridoor run ( including Fogarty cleaning up a sh*t kick from Cripps great cleanup from Williamson eventually to Levi who ignores an umarked Harry and shanks it OOB from 20 meters out on an angle Form Port go boundary to Dixon who outmarks Jones and Weitering from there along boundary with unmarked Port splayers streaming to Gray who got an uncontested mark with Jones and Williams standing on their feet nowhere protectign nothing Gray missed and Weitering laces out a an easy chest mark to Casboult who drops it over the boundary. Boundary throw in sees Port tap to Wines who gives to Broad but Walsh intercepts and cops a high -Walsh gets a free has nothing in coridor ( defensive players have pushed up though ) and goes along boundary to a good mark from Levi who turns quickly and kicks to a leading Harry in pocket who is spoiled and he goes down spread eagled his favourite pose after any contest but McGovern gathers along pocket boundary and delivers a perfect uncontested mark to Newnes 20 meters out on a 45 degree angle - he misses.

That is just the first five minutes of coach killing sh*te goal sense and finishing - after players had beatten their opponents to set up opportunity.

I can go through the whole game and sight numerous examples of brain farts from players who have played better and can do better- massively screwing up hard work and missing easy opportunity.

Forward structure and set ups and thinking - leading to unecessary rebounds catching out defensive players letting their man run free.

Game goes on with dubious free against Cripps to Marshall who misses and Weitering makes up for fumbles and bumbles to Jones and others 2X to eventuall clear to Kennedy who marks and gets his head kneed n tackle- 50 meters. Kennedy goes for a gallop and decides to kick at goal with Carlton players not set up anywhere defensive players not set up / forwards not set up - brain fart. Williamson collects from a well guarded exit ( he has jad three good passages of play already UP the ground) and gives a beautiful cross the body amrk to Eddie 40 meters out who offloads to Kennedy ( Eddie doesn't even turn to look for goal side forwards in space) who shanks another kick across the goal face Murphy runs it over boundary. WHY THE HURRY ? What is the thinking here? Play on till Carlton fail to kill the ball along boundary with most players forward of ball - Jones playing 20 meters behind Marshall who gets an easy coridor mark and then tumbles a kick to a leading Gray who takes the ball cleanly and gives it to a running support Jones ( who had run unmarked from Ports HBF) and turns to give it off for a kick to an unmarked Dixon in space- Ports first goal.

Half way through first quarter instead of being 2-3 goals up as we had run of play - Port get the first goal and that was the recipe they followed for the rest of the game.

Yeah, we were not at switched on at all mentally.
I was praying the Newnes, and then Cripps, would kick the goal to wake us up. But it didn't happen.
And despite the 2 missed gimmes, we were lucky to only be 5 points down at quarter time.
 

Iamcarlton

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This goes directly to the heart of Teague's game plan which requires forward half pressure. Beggers belief that he plays Murphy at all and certainly adds weight that the guy is being gifted 300. Either that or Teague doesn't believe in his own plan.

If he's serious about forward half pressure then Fogarty for one should be stationed their permanently until at least one of Fish or Martin get back.

Not surprised the forward half actually looks better with JSOS there, at least he never gives up even though he's not overly quick.
Beggars belief alright wants the 3 tall forwards one of which is on one leg Cas shifts Murph forward and wants forward pressure .
Yep sure Teaguey sure .🤔
 
Nov 26, 2019
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Quick question re the bolded bit (haven't watched any of the game).

Do you believe we kicked to the outnumbered contest primarily due to slow ball movement or poor decision making or both?

Reason I ask is that kicking to an outnumbered contest due to slow ball movement can be for several reasons:

Players up the ground are not pushing to make space (so that's an effort thing), the kicker has no confidence and goes backwards or slows play down by taking his time to move the ball on (concerning if lacking confidence in one's own skills but can also be as a product of the first reason), players have been pushed wide by the opposition guarding the corridor ie around the boundary play (I think opposition teams do this to us a lot because it slows us down and then we seem to be extremely susceptible to turning it over)

Poor decision making is poor decision making and tbh you can lay that at the door of the recruiting guys.
It looked like they were following the gameplan, but Hinkley had already studied it and schooled his players on how to structure up around the ground. The result - turnovers, player confusion, hesitation, and ultimately a lack of confidence and skill errors. I thought we worked harder, and we had to, while Port had time and space, and coasted in second gear.

If anyone has the GPS numbers, I would love to see them. I would be surprised if Port ran harder than us despite having vastly more uncontested possessions.
 

windows1

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We all frown at Casboult and so we should, but 30 meters out on a slight angle was a terrible miss from our captain. Inexcusable and unfortunately it set the tone for the day. Last week he kick 2 from similar position, so it's above the shoulders with these guys. Just demoralising.
I don’t really get it. Get a video. Work out why you often kick it off your instep. Especially under pressure. Fix. Create habits that keep you focused.

Sort it out. Or stay out of the forward 50 because it’s ******* demoralising.
 

Blue since 72

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Went to the game with my brother who supports another team - so a neutral watcher. His comments were essentially Port being able to move the ball from their defence to forward line with ease and uncontested marks. Biggest takeaway was how many memorable stuff ups, bad decisions, poor kick, poor handballs were made by Carlton. Whereas with Port...were there any memorable ones?

We're our own worst enemy in terms of losing possession of the ball and VERY often making poor decisions.

We've played every game like this and I just wish the players (and us) knew why.

My two cents is they are too worried about the result and not the process and/or the game plan sucks or isn't right for this group and they can't execute it.

I still believe we have decent talent but to watch them you wouldn't think so.
 

17SetMeFree

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I think you're confusing his actions for intent. He's not being selfish for selfish reasons if that makes sense. He feels like, as others have said, he has to play like Bont or Martin for the teams benefit. I said it before, but he can do things inside neither of them can do and should maximise that instead of looking at things they do that he can't as something he should try and become.

I've never got the feeling that Patty is a selfish person or player.
Nor have I, but as I said, he has become this way. The "Why" is more important and pressing. Is it because he doesn't trust his teammates and will do a long bomb to nowhere is stead of giving off? Is it because attempting low percentage spectacular things is a result of contract negotiations? Is it because the pressure of negotiations, he misses a set shot from a 25m out? Its hard to know what a young player of this calibre goes through mentally.
 
Yeah, we were not at switched on at all mentally.
I was praying the Newnes, and then Cripps, would kick the goal to wake us up. But it didn't happen.
And despite the 2 missed gimmes, we were lucky to only be 5 points down at quarter time.

There is no cohesion in forward line - none. There is no semblence of game plan for forward entries or how to take advantage of free kicks near inside fifty- it is all rush ruch crash and bash and see what happens. Nothing clinical or planned - nothing. That is our bnig weakness.
 

Blue since 72

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It looked like they were following the gameplan, but Hinkley had already studied it and schooled his players on how to structure up around the ground. The result - turnovers, player confusion, hesitation, and ultimately a lack of confidence and skill errors. I thought we worked harder, and we had to, while Port had time and space, and coasted in second gear.

If anyone has the GPS numbers, I would love to see them. I would be surprised if Port ran harder than us despite having vastly more uncontested possessions.

Pretty damning if true.
 
Aug 18, 2006
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Just read my post - the answer is there. Here it is again - we had 9 scoring shots to their 2. We completely dominated them the entire last quarter. They couldn't even get it out of our back line - we had 4 or 5 direct shots on goal all of which could have gone through.

Its not even an argument - we totally smashed them in the last, they were spent and were desperate, exact opposite of "taking it easy".

Its on kayo if you need it.

Thing is, lets say you are right and they couldnt get it out of their backline....if we kick a goal, the ball goes to the middle and its out of their backline. People see we kicked lots of points....thats because the ball was up our end because we couldnt kick a goal. We kick a goal and it goes back to a 50/50 contest. Kicking 2.7 or 3.6 doesnt then mean we should have kicked 7.2 or 6.3

They got 7 goals up and cruised home and won by 5 goals - we didnt get close and you are talking s**t, but keep going, its a good laugh.
 

Blue since 72

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There is no cohesion in forward line - none. There is no semblence of game plan for forward entries or how to take advantage of free kicks near inside fifty- it is all rush ruch crash and bash and see what happens. Nothing clinical or planned - nothing. That is our bnig weakness.

So has Teague adopted a Richmond style inside 50 (seems so) without the Richmond cattle to make it work and should he been adopting a more West Coast style as an example?
 
The amount of Carlton supporters in the crowd

1. with their head in their hands
2. groaning in dismay
3. calling out "what are you doing?"
4. shouting inanities at the sky

Merely confirms what I've known for years. Our decision making across the ground is utter s**t.
 
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Beggars belief alright wants the 3 tall forwards one of which is on one leg Cas shifts Murph forward and wants forward pressure .
Yep sure Teaguey sure .🤔

Correct. Why would you shift Marc forward? His position is midfield and if the coaching staff cannot work out how to rotate him or play him in the middle, then don't play him. IMO - It's a blight on the coaching group that one of our most skilled and best users of the ball, isn't played in his best position.

I believe it gives us a good insight into the coaches mentality.
They have f@#k up Dow, SpS, O'Brien and I fear even Cuningham and Stocker. What do they all have in common? See ball get ball.
IMO - Blighty says it best 'If you have the ball and use it, then the opposition don't have it and can't use it'.
 

Stamos

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There is no cohesion in forward line - none. There is no semblence of game plan for forward entries or how to take advantage of free kicks near inside fifty- it is all rush ruch crash and bash and see what happens. Nothing clinical or planned - nothing. That is our bnig weakness.

The problem is, it's not just the forwardline. It's through the middle of the ground too.
 
Aug 18, 2006
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The amount of Carlton supporters in the crowd

1. with their head in their hands
2. groaning in dismay
3. calling out "what are you doing?"
4. shouting inanities at the sky

Merely confirms what I've known for years. Our decision making across the ground is utter sh*t.

I find it sadly amusing when i see/hear the same things in the crowd. You just know they/we have all seen it before and can see it coming, especially the days when we are really off. I find it amusing or in a way pleasing because i think 'its not just me thinking this' on how bad we can be.
 
Dec 28, 2007
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Melbourne and Doggies have had a pretty easy ride - reckon Tigers and Port would smash both.

We are a LOT better than people think - return of players is going to see us smash some teamsm

I wish i was as confident as you , The Doggies are on fire and are all playing exactly to plan
Melbourne also has alot of weapons and may have just turned the corner and could be the real deal this year

Port is extremely suspect on the MCG when pressure is applied with teams that have run and speed
 
So has Teague adopted a Richmond style inside 50 (seems so) without the Richmond cattle to make it work and should he been adopting a more West Coast style as an example?

I know it sounds trite - but just kicking easy shots ( ie set shots within 30 meters with no more than a 45 degree angle) would see Carlton a 4-5 gol better side each week. That is the first point - we dont capitalise on the efforts made betwen the arcs at all this means we dont ever apply score board pressure. We have relatively weak players on the outside - good runners - but poor attackers. This means entries are also always questionable and slow and ponderous - despite some great kicking from defensive players to set up easy entries....Weitering is actually taking his kicks to a new level...

Second point is that Harry isnt a great contested mark he isa beautiful leading mark - but doesn't lead as much as he should - same for Levi. We arent organised well enoiugh to actually make use of three talls at the moment in terms of kicks to them. Against Port Harry alowed ALit to take front posiiton - for teh whole game - I dont knwo who the coaches are at Carlton - but that could have been fixed at anytime - Alir was their #1 stopper and we kept kicking to him - because Harry was happy to play behind- that wwas weirdo deluxo stuff.

As for Richmond/WC comparisons - they both have dedicated small and mid sized forwards who can kick goals- we dont. So teague tries to flood forward and use repeat pressure to get a result-this is a very very taxing strategy, takes its toll on players over 4 quarters - especially if you cant ever get score board pressure on opposition. We have not one small forward who can kick a running goal from 35 meters out - not one.

We have SOJ/Martin and Fisher out - they are all better options as smaller forwards than what we are playing with now.

There are no 'easy' goals for Carlton with current team line up unfortunately.
 
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