Scape Goat Who should we trade?

CaptainWorpedo

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You don’t trade away talent when you haven’t got much of it especially for picks that may or may not pan out.

Like Clarkson said in the media recently , trust history. We are back at ground zero. We rolled the dice with 3 top draft picks that set up our 3peat. Its time to roll the again. ( Buddy, Roughie and Lewis)
 

CaptainWorpedo

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I think McAsey at Adelaide is dying to come back to Melbourne, if we could sneak another young key forward from the crows it would be perfect considering he'll be 20 by the time next year comes around. Mt Gambier is just as far from Adelaide as Melbourne but maybe TOB could help get that deal done - I think early 20s KPFs should be the target.
Pick him via pre season draft at this rate for 2nd pick.
 
Nov 21, 2010
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Mitchell, Wingard and Sicily are the players that could get us a serious return. Worpel would be selling low and I assume teams see O'Meara as too speculative to use a decent first round pick on. Gunston could maybe improve our position to try to be another team's Brian Lake. Things can change, but as they are now, I think we should look at all options to improve our position within the top 20-25 of the draft without completely burning things down.
 
Sep 8, 2014
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Mitchell, Wingard and Sicily are the players that could get us a serious return. Worpel would be selling low and I assume teams see O'Meara as too speculative to use a decent first round pick on. Gunston could maybe improve our position to try to be another team's Brian Lake. Things can change, but as they are now, I think we should look at all options to improve our position within the top 20-25 of the draft without completely burning things down.
In the words of Teflon Terry "I would spew up if we traded Sic"

The other two, I could live with.
 

burner1

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Don’t think we will trade Mitchell, JOM, worpel or wingard (we don’t have the mids coming through yet that I think will push Clarko to pull the trigger) and have left too late for Gunston or Breust.

Reckon cegs as a 30 year old back up ruck is a luxury we could trade to fill a more pressing list hole. Would someone give up a decent 2nd given some clubs have been caught short this year?
Obviosuly this would put pressure on reeves to play afl and BB to last another year + would need to find another ruck for depth. TOB may also be surplus if kosi/Jeka/Lewis show signs but not sure if a club would take him?

If we are not trading any of current mids then cousins may look for other opportunity or be a trade chip (if we don’t want to play him) - think a club was interested last year? Prob a late third / 4th of used as part of a pick upgrade?

We also have a surplus of back flankers -but don’t think we’d trade any.
 
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In the words of Teflon Terry "I would spew up if we traded Sic"

The other two, I could live with.

Me too, but that's because he's the one other teams would actually really want. Trading is much harder than hypotheticals because players have rights to refuse and you have to consider the social role they play inside the club.

But look at it this way. Sicily plays in the one area of the ground we have real young talent in. We are a better side with him in, because he's genuinely elite. He's right in the age where another team could get plenty of time out of him to justify a big trade investment, while on the tail end of the bracket we should be targeting to set us up for long term success.

Richmond and Brisbane will both have 2 mid-late first round pick this year. The Giants will have 2 early-mid ones. They won't move them for Shiels or probably even Mitchell. But Sicily? That could get them to the table. Then you could be talking about 3 first round picks and 5 in the top 30. Get that right and it can set you up for a while.

Every chance Sicily doesn't want to move and this is all pointless, but I think the strategy makes sense.
 
Keep them all, just add some speed and quality around them.
Around them? Are we just going to ignore the 6-6-6 rule and put more people in the center square? If we rotate those 3 as to who is at the stoppages, then they have to be played elsewhere and all 3 of them, especially Mitchell, don't have any value elsewhere on the ground.

We need more than one with speed, acceleration and agility who can kick over a jam jar to be used in and around stoppages and 1 top draft pick selection won't bring that. Mitchell isn't an enigma who can't be replaced. Neither are Worpel or JOM. If a good deal is offered, it needs to be looked at as an opportunity to upgrade.

Unfortunately a bad mix of stubbornness and sentiment towards the list has seen us with one of the worst lists in the league so we need to consider playing the long game and giving up who we consider a 'key' player.

Won't happen, though. Clarkson doesn't consider trading those who fit his 2015 gameplan.
 

Cyzzametimbres

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I don’t want us to trade any of these players but the only ones with real currency:

Mitchell
Jaeger
Wingard
Omeara
Sicily
Breust
Gunston

of those I doubt any would want to leave and if they did we wouldn’t get market value. Anyone else on our list that wanted to leave ie Shiels, Worpel we’d get an average pick for. I don’t think we can play both Mitchell and Worpel in the same midfield. Cousins would net us a 4th rounder and probably more likelihood he gets delisted and picked up by someone than traded for.
 
The game is much bigger than centre bounce stoppages. Come on.
That's where we're the weakest. Yeah the stats may look nice and say we won just as many clearances, but look at the quality of them. If we win them, it's usually a series of handballs before a long, high kick to Nooneinparticular. While the opposition are often seen strolling out with a series of RUNNING handballs to spreading players before kicking into their F50 with our defense under pressure as their forwards use the space.

This happens because Mitchell, JOM and Worpel are slow as s**t and 2.5 of them have no defensive side to their game. When they win it, because they can't kick over a jam jar, should they try to kick to a player running into space, it's a slow, airy kick and not always well directed so the opposition defense has time to close or have a spare come in and kill it.

It's not much different around the grounds either. We win the tap and it's a series of stationary handballs before often a rushed kick up the ground.

Mitchell, JOM and Worpel are stationary players. Play well when the ball is within a 2m radius of them, but once that leaves, they're done. You can only really afford to have 1 and maybe 2 of them in your side.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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I would hang on to JOM ferociously but I would definitely consider trading Mitchell.

An extra pick or two this spring would change the game. We seriously lack young midfield talent.
 
That's where we're the weakest. Yeah the stats may look nice and say we won just as many clearances, but look at the quality of them. If we win them, it's usually a series of handballs before a long, high kick to Nooneinparticular. While the opposition are often seen strolling out with a series of RUNNING handballs to spreading players before kicking into their F50 with our defense under pressure as their forwards use the space.

This happens because Mitchell, JOM and Worpel are slow as sh*t and 2.5 of them have no defensive side to their game. When they win it, because they can't kick over a jam jar, should they try to kick to a player running into space, it's a slow, airy kick and not always well directed so the opposition defense has time to close or have a spare come in and kill it.

It's not much different around the grounds either. We win the tap and it's a series of stationary handballs before often a rushed kick up the ground.

Mitchell, JOM and Worpel are stationary players. Play well when the ball is within a 2m radius of them, but once that leaves, they're done. You can only really afford to have 1 and maybe 2 of them in your side.
Well, we haven't had Mitchell, JOM and Worpel in the centre stoppages this year. They've taken Worpel out for the majority of them. The CBA stats are published weekly.

Seemingly the coaches are aware our exits need work, but I'd suggest its more method than personnel. We have come up against some decent midfields too.

Given we have some handy inside players, I'd like to support them and give them quality on the outside to feed the ball to, rather than to trade them out.
 
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I think trading the blokes mentioned unless it was manufactured that they really wanted to chase a flag elsewhere, would cause cultural damage to the team and in the case of JOM, Mitchell and Wings, make it harder to recruit experienced players in the future.

I think we need to hang on to what we have at this stage and clear out the list cloggers and keep going to the draft,a s we did in the early 2000's, where we built a list of 10 - 15 players that would all go on to form the base of a great team.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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I think trading the blokes mentioned unless it was manufactured that they really wanted to chase a flag elsewhere, would cause cultural damage to the team and in the case of JOM, Mitchell and Wings, make it harder to recruit experienced players in the future.

I think we need to hang on to what we have at this stage and clear out the list cloggers and keep going to the draft,a s we did in the early 2000's, where we built a list of 10 - 15 players that would all go on to form the base of a great team.

It would be a huge public admission of defeat by Clarkson if we traded out Wingard, Mitchell, JOM or even Sicily, Gunston or Breust.

IMO we need to look at trading Shiels, TOB and Ceglar and take whatever we can get. We could maybe trade Worpel or Hardwick, the latter because we seem to have quite a few players that could potentially fill that void. Though I wouldn't want to trade either. I doubt we'd get value for either too.
 
Aug 31, 2008
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Potentially 3 picks inside 25, i don't think we need to trade players out.

But i'd like us to get creative about bringing in next years pick into this year.

Then get what we can for fringe players like TOB, Ceglar and an established player like Shiels. Maybe we can package picks up and make a move.
 

CaptainWorpedo

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Gunston and Bruest have their premierships and are happy Hawks.

I think all three of Wingard, Omeara and Mitchell would consider leaving if the Hawks deemed a premiership 4 years away.

They came on a promise of a premiership and given there age, it is unlikely they will be around for our next. So it is reasonable they maybe interested in a move.

This may also play on Sicilys mind, age and no premiership.

I am not saying we should trade them all, but i think two of them would bring us a first round pick each at a minimum and set up our future. An of cause only if the players wishes to leave, never pushed.
 

DeafHawk

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No one for now unless one of them want to go...

Delist yes we need to fill holes for the future Silverware.

2 x Talent Inside 50's specialist midfielder
 

On Topic

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We have a really nice core group of players we are building atm. I want to see who we can add to this list vid trade and draft instead of culling it already.

Midfield: Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell, Worpel, Phillips, Morrison
Forward: Moore
Defense: Hardwick, Day, Scrimshaw, Sicily, Jiath, Impey, Frost
Experience heads: Shiels, McEvoy, Gunston, Bruest, Burgoyne (notice we have premiership experience across all lines).

Developing: Forwards (Lewis, Koschitzke, Brockman, Jeka, Morris, Hanrahan); Defenders (Greaves, Grainger-Barras); Midfielders (Maginness, Downie, Cousins) and Ruck (Reeves).
Depth/role players: Howe, Ceglar, Hartigan, O'Brien and Hartley.

Now sure, there's a fair bit of unknown in some of the developing players in particular, in the forward line. Moore is the only one who has shown enough to me that he will make it. However, I am really happy with where our list is at in our stage of development. I am confident we will be making finals next year and hopefully competing the year after. I can't wait until Downie, Maginness and Grainger-Barras are all regulars in our 22 when they are ready and one of Lewis, Jeka or Koschitzke is firing in the seniors. I reckon a lot of minds will change about the state of our list when that happens.
 

nelk boys

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We have a really nice core group of players we are building atm. I want to see who we can add to this list vid trade and draft instead of culling it already.

Midfield: Wingard, O'Meara, Mitchell, Worpel, Phillips, Morrison
Forward: Moore
Defense: Hardwick, Day, Scrimshaw, Sicily, Jiath, Impey, Frost
Experience heads: Shiels, McEvoy, Gunston, Bruest, Burgoyne (notice we have premiership experience across all lines).

Developing: Forwards (Lewis, Koschitzke, Brockman, Jeka, Morris, Hanrahan); Defenders (Greaves, Grainger-Barras); Midfielders (Maginness, Downie, Cousins) and Ruck (Reeves).
Depth/role players: Howe, Ceglar, Hartigan, O'Brien and Hartley.

Now sure, there's a fair bit of unknown in some of the developing players in particular, in the forward line. Moore is the only one who has shown enough to me that he will make it. However, I am really happy with where our list is at in our stage of development. I am confident we will be making finals next year and hopefully competing the year after. I can't wait until Downie, Maginness and Grainger-Barras are all regulars in our 22 when they are ready and one of Lewis, Jeka or Koschitzke is firing in the seniors. I reckon a lot of minds will change about the state of our list when that happens.
Not sure if your trolling or not, but we are currently no where close to reaching finals next year and contending the following. We need to go to the draft for the next 2/3 years aggresively and be accepting of a few years of being bottom 4. Downie, Maginess and DGB will not help us rise to a finals run next year, will need some patience and development.
 
Not sure if your trolling or not, but we are currently no where close to reaching finals next year and contending the following. We need to go to the draft for the next 2/3 years aggresively and be accepting of a few years of being bottom 4. Downie, Maginess and DGB will not help us rise to a finals run next year, will need some patience and development.
That’s your opinion.

Put Sicily, Day, Gunston and Lewis into Sunday’s game and maybe the results differ.
We also have the makings of a superb half back line. We can’t even fit everyone in there.

There’s a lot of water to go under the bridge between now and the end of the year, and our fixture does get slightly easier from here.
 
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