List Mgmt. 2021 List Management: Draft, Trade, Free Agency and Academy

[Docker82]

Yep. If he and Pearce were rookied I’d be fine with that. But structurally and man power wise we’ve moved on from both of them and as a supporter so have I.

Both wouldn't last to our first pick in the rookie draft. They are proven afl footballers who've had a few injury issues. They aren't Bennell or Morabito who've played 2/4 games in 4/6 years on the list. And Bennell got an opportunity after freo too!

When they've played excluding this season they've played for a decent stretch. The last thing we need to see that happen at another club.

Pearce will have a new contract before the start of next season - bookmark that one.

 

[Bicco]

Hamling will be around for another two years, Pearce for another year - both would be very handy to have back in the side.

What's your confidence level that Pearce will be fit to play more than 15 AFL games between now and the end of next year?
Also last year we had the 5th best defense in the comp without them. They could make our defense better, but at the same time Hogan, McCarthy and Bennell, could have made our forward line better.
On the evidence before me right now, I would have them as 3rd/4th cabs off of the rank. If they can prove themselves to be selected through form and fitness then brilliant. The historical evidence and what I see right now just does not paint that picture, as unfortunate as that is for all of us. Alex will be 26 this year and has played 53 games over 7 years (into his 8th) A lot of good games I know.
As I said above, I'd be putting them on the Rookie list as soon as possible and getting some new guys on the list. If they're contracted, so be it. If they're up and running then brilliant, but neither are up nor running.

 

[Bicco]

When they've played excluding this season they've played for a decent stretch.

Pearce has not played far more than he has played. If he was a formula 1 car, you'd be looking for a different engine manufacturer. I'm not 100% advocating that they go but Joel will be 29 next year and Alex 27. Times a wasting.

 

[Dockeroo]

Pearce has not played far more than he has played. If he was a formula 1 car, you'd be looking for a different engine manufacturer. I'm not 100% advocating that they go but Joel will be 29 next year and Alex 27. Times a wasting.

Hardly any point trading Joel out at 29? Will get nothing of value in return while he can still play an important role if fit. If Joel got fit and we were able to get a second rounder for Alex you’d have to consider it?

 

[Lach72]

With these guys I look at the rest of the list, I look at the picks we currently have and there's no way you can justify delisting them yet.

We have 6-8 guys that go before them

 

[Joao]

Yeah AP is older than I thought but they are both quality if fit. I think Hammer comes back fine, it's AP I am worried about. Just finds a way to damage his legs every time he plays.

 

[theGav56]

Ryan Logue Aish
Wilson Cox Young
Freddy Fyfe Cerra
Treacy Tabs Walters
Sturt Lobb Shultz.

Darcy Mundy Brayshaw

Int Serong, Conca, Colyer, Chapman.

Intentionally removed Hamling and Pearce as they are always injured.

Question for you is, assuming this our best 22 who are our weakest 5 players?
Which 3 do we not have a replacement who will be ready in 1 or 2 years e.g. Western or Henry, and we need to target in the draft?
Assume Hamling and Pearce are out.

I don't really agree with your best 22. My five weakest are Frederick and Treacy due to lack of experience, along with the Colyer, Conca and Aish. But I also expect a couple of those last three to be on our list longer than Mundy and Walters.

I don't think we have replacements for Fyfe, Taberner or Lobb.

 

[Taylor]

What's your confidence level that Pearce will be fit to play more than 15 AFL games between now and the end of next year?
Also last year we had the 5th best defense in the comp without them. They could make our defense better, but at the same time Hogan, McCarthy and Bennell, could have made our forward line better.
On the evidence before me right now, I would have them as 3rd/4th cabs off of the rank. If they can prove themselves to be selected through form and fitness then brilliant. The historical evidence and what I see right now just does not paint that picture, as unfortunate as that is for all of us. Alex will be 26 this year and has played 53 games over 7 years (into his 8th) A lot of good games I know.
As I said above, I'd be putting them on the Rookie list as soon as possible and getting some new guys on the list. If they're contracted, so be it. If they're up and running then brilliant, but neither are up nor running.

That historical evidence would also show we get taken apart by tall contested marking key forwards and both of them have shown they can handle that.

Joel Hamling has played 63 of 88 possible games for Freo so far - 71.6%
Alex Pearce has played 54 of 158 possible games for Freo so far - 34% (but this includes 24 games in his first season in 2014 when he was very junior)

Both have shown they can play a full season, Alex did that in 2018 (or near enough with 21 games)

If Pearce keeps having the same injury over and over then it's a problem but just like Buddy hurting his knee in a collision I don't see this a recurrence, it's a football injury that anyone could have picked up in the game - just like Cerra did last match.

 

[theGav56]

What's your confidence level that Pearce will be fit to play more than 15 AFL games between now and the end of next year?
Also last year we had the 5th best defense in the comp without them. They could make our defense better, but at the same time Hogan, McCarthy and Bennell, could have made our forward line better.
On the evidence before me right now, I would have them as 3rd/4th cabs off of the rank. If they can prove themselves to be selected through form and fitness then brilliant. The historical evidence and what I see right now just does not paint that picture, as unfortunate as that is for all of us. Alex will be 26 this year and has played 53 games over 7 years (into his 8th) A lot of good games I know.
As I said above, I'd be putting them on the Rookie list as soon as possible and getting some new guys on the list. If they're contracted, so be it. If they're up and running then brilliant, but neither are up nor running.

My main thing with our defence is how much better we are with Ryan not consumed by having to play KPD.

I also think it is a little simplistic to target the injuries to Pearce and especially Hamling when Logue and Young have both had lengthy absences due to injury. They are both players I hope to see driving our team from defence but at the moment don’t. Either Hamling or Pearce working through their injuries is critical for that to happen.

I don’t recall your position on our previous S&C team, but if we got rid of them when the actual solution was to get rid of players with injuries, that’s a problem.

 

[Taylor]

We currently have a coach that can piece together something that kind of works with players outside their natural habitat, I expect that to be better when players are better suited to the roles available in the side.

 

[Docker82]

With these guys I look at the rest of the list, I look at the picks we currently have and there's no way you can justify delisting them yet.

We have 6-8 guys that go before them

More like there's no justification because they're best 22 players who add significant value to the list. Replacing them would set the rebuild back years either in developing an 18 year old kid from scratch or trading valuable picks that could be used on actual list needs.

If we get two of Pearce, Hamling, Cox and Logue on the park all season it's not only an AFL standard defence. It's above average.

Every team in the league has injury prone players. Delisting top ten players on the list makes no sense. They'd be 17 clubs offering either contracts if we did.

 

[Taylor]

Clubs working with three tall marking forwards will mean we want three players who can cover those giants, we currently play one.

 

[Lach72]

More like there's no justification because they're best 22 players who add significant value to the list. Replacing them would set the rebuild back years either in developing an 18 year old kid from scratch or trading valuable picks that could be used on actual list needs.

If we get two of Pearce, Hamling, Cox and Logue on the park all season it's not only an AFL standard defence. It's above average.

Every team in the league has injury prone players. Delisting top ten players on the list makes no sense. They'd be 17 clubs offering either contracts if we did.

I see a place for only one of them TBH because Cox offer more with the ball... But there's no way they're below the bottom 6-8 on the list currently, so there's no way they get dumped

 

[DragoDelph]

I see a place for only one of them TBH because Cox offer more with the ball... But there's no way they're below the bottom 6-8 on the list currently, so there's no way they get dumped

Is depth, is good

 

[Lach72]

Is depth, is good

True and given we only have a first and a second round pick this year before picks in the 80's, 3 WA KP players available for selection with only Bazzo playing CHB, Motlop a possibility for us after 20, and a draft packed with midfielders, I really don't want to be using anything for the next two drafts on KPB

 

[Scham]

Ryan Logue Cox
Young Chapman Wilson

is the defence for the short term future imo. We'll most likely have injuries so if Hamling and/or Pearce are available then all good and well but we can't and don't have to rely on them anymore.

 

[Docker82]

I see a place for only one of them TBH because Cox offer more with the ball... But there's no way they're below the bottom 6-8 on the list currently, so there's no way they get dumped

We could debate where they sit on the list but there’s no way any of our four key defenders are below our top 20 imo. I think we can all acknowledge that if these guys were all fit it’s extremely hard to decide who will play.

In reality I honestly think it’ll be very hard for us to ever leave out the incumbent/s. At this stage it’s Cox. If he injuries himself if/when Pearce and Hamling are both available he might find it very hard to get back in. Logue is probably only relevant to the discussion if two of the above are unavailable tbh - more ideally a third tall and will keep his spot in the side doing this role.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Eh, no one has advocated for an immediate delisting. The entire conversation is predicated on the injury issues being ongoing as well, the whole point is moot if one or both starts to string a run of games together.

It IMO becomes a problem next year though if we're in the same boat with recurrent LTIs. 1-2 KPDs on the list who aren't available consistently becomes an issue long term if we're not bringing in some more via draft because we have these two dead list spots. If one of Cox or Logue goes down for any period I think that becomes a real problem.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

We've interviewed this kid according to the article

Jumping Jake looms large for mid-season draft

With the mid-season draft not too far away, one player has AFL recruiters excited. And he’s still at school.

www.theage.com.au

Aaaaaannddd the article also says we cant draft him because of school...

 

[Taylor]

We can draft him, but he won't be flying over. If he is available beyond the first few picks anyway..

 

[Docker82]

We can draft him, but he won't be flying over. If he is available beyond the first few picks anyway..

Are Mid Season Draft picks delisted free agents if they don’t accept a new contract or if they aren’t offered one?

You’d probably want the guy to confirm he’d come over in 2022 before you drafted him tbh. If he agrees to sign on for 2022 immediately after the mid season draft even better.

 

[Taylor]

Are Mid Season Draft picks delisted free agents if they don’t accept a new contract or if they aren’t offered one?

You’d probably want the guy to confirm he’d come over in 2022 before you drafted him tbh. If he agrees to sign on for 2022 immediately after the mid season draft even better.

I believe they are delisted free agents if they aren't offered a contract for the following year. They might be if they choose not to accept a deal too.

Risky stuff, you're right.

I'd think that bringing the player into the playing group when the side is playing in Melbourne would go a long way to getting that signature for 2022.

The real issue though is that the draftee might be eligible to be immediately bumped up to 3rd year salary from 2022, which changes things. I'm not sure the rules are clear on 2 year deals for first drafts in the mid season draft

 

[Docker82]

Eh, no one has advocated for an immediate delisting. The entire conversation is predicated on the injury issues being ongoing as well, the whole point is moot if one or both starts to string a run of games together.

It IMO becomes a problem next year though if we're in the same boat with recurrent LTIs. 1-2 KPDs on the list who aren't available consistently becomes an issue long term if we're not bringing in some more via draft because we have these two dead list spots. If one of Cox or Logue goes down for any period I think that becomes a real problem.

Maybe not today but it’s certainly been said previously in this thread and others.

I’m so against the idea of comparing Hamling and Pearce to Bennell and Morabito. Morabito got six years of **** all footy and Bennell got four with **** all footy and a sh*tonne of off field incidents. Bennell got another go as well.

Maybe discuss the option of drafting another key defender - I’m fine with that. If you consider that Logue and Chapman are really third talls we’re probably short on them anyway.

Questioning the place of Pearce or Hamling on the list in any capacity is way off the mark imo.

 

[Bicco]

Maybe not today but it’s certainly been said previously in this thread and others.

I’m so against the idea of comparing Hamling and Pearce to Bennell and Morabito. Morabito got six years of **** all footy and Bennell got four with **** all footy and a sh*tonne of off field incidents. Bennell got another go as well.

Maybe discuss the option of drafting another key defender - I’m fine with that. If you consider that Logue and Chapman are really third talls we’re probably short on them anyway.

Questioning the place of Pearce or Hamling on the list in any capacity is way off the mark imo.

You do realise that Pearce is into his 3rd year of **** all footy right? And that’s the discussion. Is 4 years the limit? Or 3 or 5? At what point do people on this board think that enough is enough with an injured player?

 

[Joao]

You do realise that Pearce is into his 3rd year of **** all footy right? And that’s the discussion. Is 4 years the limit? Or 3 or 5? At what point do people on this board think that enough is enough with an injured player?

I think it depends on the injury. For soft tissue on blokes past 28 I think 5 repeats are enough to fork him (sorry Shill). For ACLs, 3rd one and you're done.

As I understand it, AP's injury this time is different. I know nothing about medicine but I have assumed it is not directly related to the others. I'd give him this year but I'd want to see him on the park for at least half of next year. So 4 years for general "injury proneness" like AP seems to have.

I think the way it is actually done is that we don't let good players go until we're pretty sure nobody else would pick them up.